Taking the Mark of the Beast

[timtofly]

I think you misunderstood.
I am not talking about someone who was a Christian - THEN too the marker
Rather - a person is NOT a Christian - takes a mark - THEN becomes a Christian - ......


But you brought up an interesting point - you accept Christ doing the Trib. - THEN take the mark of the Beast.

Short answer.

Cutting one's head off after being removed from the Lamb's book of life is not going to put one's name back in. I think that being a reprobate now is also a sure way to be spiritually dead, which at the GWT means one's name is removed, because one cannot change their mind once the spirit itself is dead. I think a demon is a dead spirit of a reprobate soul in sheol. Demons believe and even tremble, but it seems the soul will never be able to change, and a Second Resurrection, that of the spirit is found where in Scripture?

Some imply that Revelation 20:5 is talking about a "Second Resurrection".

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."

The first resurrection is physical to an incorruptible body. The next verse says, the physical resurrection escapes:

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

Why would there be another first, physical resurrection at the GWT? No one needs blessed, holy, incorruptible, permanent, bodies to be priests in the Lake of Fire. The Lake of Fire being the Second Death, needing a Second Resurrection, spiritual.

If there is another first resurrection (physical) at the GWT, it would mean some names for sheol dwellers over the last 5000+ years can remain in the Lamb's book of life, and they escape the Lake of Fire.

The Second Resurrection, spiritual, would mean coming back from the Lake of Fire. That is having one's name placed back into the Lamb's book of life.

 

[1689Dave]

If you take the mark of the Beast - will it be possible to still be saved during the tribulation?


NOTE: This is NOT a discussion of when the Tribulation will happen (ie pre,mid, post, A trib)

The mark of the beast has been here since Nero, totalitarian governments, and in the Papacy. It is a mindset, not a literal mark. Many have it now unknowingly through Papal doctrines they support throughout Christendom (the temple of God) today. Learn to recognize these doctrines and you will see clearly that the Pope still sits in the Temple as he did leading up to the Reformation.

Note, the mark in America where Christian business that will not yield to sinful laws can not buy or sell. And all who support these laws wear it.

 

[Dave G]

If you take the mark of the Beast - will it be possible to still be saved during the tribulation?

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." ( Revelation 14:9-11 )

 

[1689Dave]

" And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [his] mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." ( Revelation 14:9-11 )

Any of God's elect does not wear the Mark. But all of the reprobates already do. People wear it any time they place wicked laws (can you think of any today?) above God's (NT) law. What moron is going to line up and receive a literal stamp, taking the symbol literally instead of what it represents?

 

[robycop3]

The mark is symbolic. It represents submitting either your mind or works to antichrist.

"I'll bow to the idol and design a cake to glorify your sodomy, BUT in my heart I reject them both." That's the mark on the back of the hand. It's the number of a man. IOW, one has yielded his hands to the wisdom of man.

"It's just a cake. "

"Love your neighbor."

"Just do your job."


Can one be saved? Of course. Thomas Bilney recanted the doctrine of grace under pressure, but because he was of the elect, repented and went to the stake.

All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven.

The marka the beast will be LITERAL. It'll be some sorta microchip containing all of one's personal info and financial records. it'll be used to conduct business in place of cash or the current cards. One will be paid in it, replacing direct deposit in banx.

And Scripture says ALL who take that mark will be condemned.

 

[robycop3]

This part is exactly right.

Sorry, Sir; it's not at all right. The mark will be some sorta microchip.

 

[1689Dave]

The marka the beast will be LITERAL. It'll be some sorta microchip containing all of one's personal info and financial records. it'll be used to conduct business in place of cash or the current cards. One will be paid in it, replacing direct deposit in banx.

And Scripture says ALL who take that mark will be condemned.

You are adding to scripture. It does not say this. Heed Jesus' warning...
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18–19 (KJV 1900)

 

[robycop3]

The mark of the beast has been here since Nero, totalitarian governments, and in the Papacy. It is a mindset, not a literal mark. Many have it now unknowingly through Papal doctrines they support throughout Christendom (the temple of God) today. Learn to recognize these doctrines and you will see clearly that the Pope still sits in the Temple as he did leading up to the Reformation.

Note, the mark in America where Christian business that will not yield to sinful laws can not buy or sell. And all who support these laws wear it.

No; the mark has not yet been issued. It'll be a literal thing, most likely an implanted microchip that'll hold all of a person't personal info (SSN, DOB, etc.) & all financial records (bank accounts, IRAs, etc.) & will be used to conduct business, including receiving one's pay. The antichrist will hawk it as being theft or loss-proof, etc. & immune to illegal scanning. But his security forces will be able to track anyone who has it.

I believe the rapture will occur shortly before this "mark" is issued, so there'll be little opposition to it when it's made mandatory, no Christians left to warn against taking that microchip. But a few people will realize the rapture has occurred & not accept the beast's glib explanation for the disappearance of millions, and will sincerely seek Jesus & not take the mark. They'll live a tough existence, as they'll be unable to buy or sell except thru "black markets" & will be constantly hunted by the beast's security forces, & killed when found. Yes, many of them will be martyred.

But no, that mark doesn't yet exist though the tech for it does. And, of course, the beast/antichrist hasn't yet come, nor his sidekick the false prophet.

 

[robycop3]

You are adding to scripture. It does not say this. Heed Jesus' warning...
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18–19 (KJV 1900)

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Scripture does indeed say such !

Rev. 13: 16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has ]the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Rev. 14:9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

One cannot receive a "symbolic" mark anywhere on one's body. People often receive marx or tats symbolizing something, but that mark itself is literal.

Your remarx reek of preterism.

 

[1689Dave]

No; the mark has not yet been issued. It'll be a literal thing, most likely an implanted microchip that'll hold all of a person't personal info (SSN, DOB, etc.) & all financial records (bank accounts, IRAs, etc.) & will be used to conduct business, including receiving one's pay. The antichrist will hawk it as being theft or loss-proof, etc. & immune to illegal scanning. But his security forces will be able to track anyone who has it.

I believe the rapture will occur shortly before this "mark" is issued, so there'll be little opposition to it when it's made mandatory, no Christians left to warn against taking that microchip. But a few people will realize the rapture has occurred & not accept the beast's glib explanation for the disappearance of millions, and will sincerely seek Jesus & not take the mark. They'll live a tough existence, as they'll be unable to buy or sell except thru "black markets" & will be constantly hunted by the beast's security forces, & killed when found. Yes, many of them will be martyred.

But no, that mark doesn't yet exist though the tech for it does. And, of course, the beast/antichrist hasn't yet come, nor his sidekick the false prophet.

You cannot see it because you are looking for the symbol to appear instead of what it represents. And adding to God's word as a consequence. Have you seen any red dragons yet? Don't count on it.

 

[1689Dave]

MMRRPP ! WRONG !

Scripture does indeed say such !

Rev. 14:

But you do not understand John's symbolism.

 

[robycop3]

You cannot see it because you are looking for the symbol to appear instead of what it represents. And adding to God's word as a consequence. Have you seen any red dragons yet? Don't count on it.

Dragons are fictional; marks are not.

 

[robycop3]

But you do not understand John's symbolism.

I understand LITERALISM. if God's word was symbolic, more people would make it say whatever they want, such as YOU are doing here. God's word is absolute, without that many metaphors. And those are easily deciphered. A good example is Rev. 17, deciphered by the angel who showed it to John.

Preterism is completely false.

 

[1689Dave]

I understand LITERALISM. if God's word was symbolic, more people would make it say whatever they want, such as YOU are doing here. God's word is absolute, without that many metaphors. And those are easily deciphered. A good example is Rev. 17, deciphered by the angel who showed it to John.

Preterism is completely false.

Forced literalism does violence to the text. God used it to blind the Pharisees from understanding scripture. Jesus used symbolism to interpret OT Kingdom prophecies.

 

[1689Dave]

Dragons are fictional; marks are not.

The Mark is symbolic too. Did you know many already have it but are ignorant as to what it is?

 

[robycop3]

To answer the OP:

Scripture is clear that anyone who takes the mark is condemned. There are many warnings published every day to not accept a microchip implant that serves as a credit card. And even after the rapture removes all Christians who were saved before the rapture, those warnings will have been heard by those left behind. And a very few will heed them. (relatively few, perhaps a few million, outta a population of at least 7 billion.) But all who take the mark will be toast, unable to be saved.

 

[1689Dave]

To answer the OP:

Scripture is clear that anyone who takes the mark is condemned. There are many warnings published every day to not accept a microchip implant that serves as a credit card. And even after the rapture removes all Christians who were saved before the rapture, those warnings will have been heard by those left behind. And a very few will heed them. (relatively few, perhaps a few million, outta a population of at least 7 billion.) But all who take the mark will be toast, unable to be saved.

Micro-chip = adding to scripture.

 

[robycop3]

Forced literalism does violence to the text. God used it to blind the Pharisees from understanding scripture. Jesus used symbolism to interpret OT Kingdom prophecies.

Your preterist blather does not impress anyone.

The pharisees were looking for a conqueror. They paid no heed to Isaiah's or Daniel's prophecies about the Messiah, which say He would be humble, average in appearance, & would conquer SIN, not a foreign nation ruling the Jews.

Micro-chip = adding to scripture.

MCs were unknown to John, so God called them a 'mark'. Quit acting so dense, please; you're only making yourself look ignorant.

 

[1689Dave]

Your preterist blather does not impress anyone.

The pharisees were looking for a conqueror. They paid no heed to Isaiah's or Daniel's prophecies about the Messiah, which say He would be humble, average in appearance, & would conquer SIN, not a foreign nation ruling the Jews.

MCs were unknown to John, so God called them a 'mark'. Quit acting so dense, please; you're only making yourself look ignorant.

What makes you think I'm a Preterist other than not knowing what you are talking about?

 

[robycop3]

What makes you think I'm a Preterist other than not knowing what you are talking about?

A common pret trait is to try to reduce Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status, as you're exhibiting here. You mentioned adding to or subtracting from God's word, & that's EXACTLY what YOU are doing! Adding /subtracting from it includes CHANGING THE MEANINGS or inventing new ones as YOU'RE doing!

Please STOP this, as you're "heaping coals upon your own head" !