Taking the Mark of the Beast

[thomas15]

What makes you think I'm a Preterist other than not knowing what you are talking about?

Preterist or not you certainly have the mindset in that everything in the Bible that you personally don't like, you assign a non-literal interpretation. Really, your theology is closer to Christian liberalism than anything conservative. Quoting many Bible verses, mostly out of historic and grammatical context, does not make one scripture literate.

 

[Yeshua1]

The mark of the beast has been here since Nero, totalitarian governments, and in the Papacy. It is a mindset, not a literal mark. Many have it now unknowingly through Papal doctrines they support throughout Christendom (the temple of God) today. Learn to recognize these doctrines and you will see clearly that the Pope still sits in the Temple as he did leading up to the Reformation.

Note, the mark in America where Christian business that will not yield to sinful laws can not buy or sell. And all who support these laws wear it.

It is the mark to be used by the Antichrist, not the Pope!

 

[Yeshua1]

Any of God's elect does not wear the Mark. But all of the reprobates already do. People wear it any time they place wicked laws (can you think of any today?) above God's (NT) law. What moron is going to line up and receive a literal stamp, taking the symbol literally instead of what it represents?

Nothing to do with religion though, as it will be a mark that allows one to buy goods and use services!

 

[Yeshua1]

What makes you think I'm a Preterist other than not knowing what you are talking about?

Jesus said the the JEWS that they refuse Him as Messiah, but will accept Antichrist, and no way the Jews accepted any Pope nor any Caesar as messiah!

 

[Yeshua1]

Preterist or not you certainly have the mindset in that everything in the Bible that you personally don't like, you assign a non-literal interpretation. Really, your theology is closer to Christian liberalism than anything conservative. Quoting many Bible verses, mostly out of historic and grammatical context, does not make one scripture literate.

yes, as he seems to want to do the Augustinian way of understanding all prophecy!

 

[1689Dave]

A common pret trait is to try to reduce Scriptures to "figurative/symbolic" status, as you're exhibiting here. You mentioned adding to or subtracting from God's word, & that's EXACTLY what YOU are doing! Adding /subtracting from it includes CHANGING THE MEANINGS or inventing new ones as YOU'RE doing!

Please STOP this, as you're "heaping coals upon your own head" !

This is not true. Jesus and the disciples understood the symbolism and preached their interpretations of it. Elijah = John the Baptist? Do you disagree? The Temple = Jesus and the Church according to Jesus. Was he wrong?

 

[1689Dave]

Preterist or not you certainly have the mindset in that everything in the Bible that you personally don't like, you assign a non-literal interpretation. Really, your theology is closer to Christian liberalism than anything conservative. Quoting many Bible verses, mostly out of historic and grammatical context, does not make one scripture literate.

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The early Church condemned Premillennialism as heresy. Peter preached Amillennialism at Pentecost. Find Premillennialism taught anywhere in scripture. It's not there.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is not true. Jesus and the disciples understood the symbolism and preached their interpretations of it. Elijah = John the Baptist? Do you disagree? The Temple = Jesus and the Church according to Jesus. Was he wrong?

Does not that Elijah will not be returning in the end times as one of the 2 witnesses though!

 

[Yeshua1]

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The early Church condemned Premillennialism as heresy. Peter preached Amillennialism at Pentecost. Find Premillennialism taught anywhere in scripture. It's not there.

The Jews held to a premil type of eschatology, as did many Ecf also!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Sorry, Sir; it's not at all right. The mark will be some sorta microchip.

Scripture reference?

What is the Koine Greek word for microchip?

Seriously, the "mark" of the beast on the head and the hand corresponds to the phylacteries that contained the Law in Deuteronomy 6:8:

4 “Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! 5 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 And you shall repeat them diligently to your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk on the road, when you lie down, and when you get up. 8 You shall also tie them as a sign to your hand, and they shall be as frontlets on your forehead. 9 You shall also write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. - Deuteronomy 6:4-9​

In Deuteronomy 6, these actions were symbolic of meditating on the Law (forehead) and acting according to the Law (forearm/hand).

The "beast" in Revelation is the world's power structures (governments and authorities) that are opposed to God. Getting "the mark of the beast" is doing things according to the thinking and methods of this world instead of according to the thinking and methods of the Kingdom of God. It is rejecting the way of God for worldly power, like rejecting the teachings of Jesus to blindly support a President and claim that those who don't do the same are disobeying God.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The Jews held to a premil type of eschatology, as did many Ecf also!

Did you notice that the Jews were wrong? Jesus did not come at the time to set up an earthly Kingdom. That will come when the heavens and earth are reunited at the end of Revelation, after all those who opposed God are destroyed in the Lake of Fire.

 

[Yeshua1]

Did you notice that the Jews were wrong? Jesus did not come at the time to set up an earthly Kingdom. That will come when the heavens and earth are reunited at the end of Revelation, after all those who opposed God are destroyed in the Lake of Fire.

When you say destroyed, you see this as JW and Sda, and not as Baptists do?

 

[robycop3]

This is not true. Jesus and the disciples understood the symbolism and preached their interpretations of it. Elijah = John the Baptist? Do you disagree? The Temple = Jesus and the Church according to Jesus. Was he wrong?

And JESUS said JTB was Elijah (Or Elias in Greek-not to be confused with the Elias of Abraham's time)

Jesus referred to the LITERAL temple more than once. He referred to His body as 'this temple' to Jews who didn't believe He is Messiah.
Now, I didn't say Scripture has NO symbolism. but it's pretty easy to interpret, and it ALWAYS stands for something LITERAL. For instance, the 'mark of the beast' stands for a literal microchip, which was unknown to John or any other human at that time. For generations, people thought it was a tattoo, etc. forgetting such marks can easily be removed, altered, or duped. Now, as the fulfillment of eschatology isn't far-off, and knowledge is increasing as per the prophecy, we know what the mark will be.

 

[Yeshua1]

And JESUS said JTB was Elijah (Or Elias in Greek-not to be confused with the Elias of Abraham's time)

Jesus referred to the LITERAL temple more than once. He referred to His body as 'this temple' to Jews who didn't believe He is Messiah.
Now, I didn't say Scripture has NO symbolism. but it's pretty easy to interpret, and it ALWAYS stands for something LITERAL. For instance, the 'mark of the beast' stands for a literal microchip, which was unknown to John or any other human at that time. For generations, people thought it was a tattoo, etc. forgetting such marks can easily be removed, altered, or duped. Now, as the fulfillment of eschatology isn't far-off, and knowledge is increasing as per the prophecy, we know what the mark will be.

Prophecy should be treated literal sense , and to take into account the genre used!

 

[robycop3]

Jesus taught Amillennialism. The early Church condemned Premillennialism as heresy. Peter preached Amillennialism at Pentecost. Find Premillennialism taught anywhere in scripture. It's not there.

No, Jesus did NOT teach that.

Was not the Rev given directly by Jesus, or angels under His auspices? The millenium isn't mentioned til Rev. 20, and that's ALL that Jesus taught in relationship to it.

 

[robycop3]

Scripture reference?

What is the Koine Greek word for microchip?

Seriously, the "mark" of the beast on the head and the hand corresponds to the phylacteries that contained the Law in Deuteronomy 6:8:

4 “Hear, Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! 5 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. 6 These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 And you shall repeat them diligently to your sons and speak of them when you sit in your house, when you walk on the road, when you lie down, and when you get up. 8 You shall also tie them as a sign to your hand, and they shall be as frontlets on your forehead. 9 You shall also write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. - Deuteronomy 6:4-9​

In Deuteronomy 6, these actions were symbolic of meditating on the Law (forehead) and acting according to the Law (forearm/hand).

The "beast" in Revelation is the world's power structures (governments and authorities) that are opposed to God. Getting "the mark of the beast" is doing things according to the thinking and methods of this world instead of according to the thinking and methods of the Kingdom of God. It is rejecting the way of God for worldly power, like rejecting the teachings of Jesus to blindly support a President and claim that those who don't do the same are disobeying God.

As I said elsewhere, microchips were unknown when the rev was given, so God called iot a 'mark'.

2 Thess.2 makes it plain the beast/antichrist/man of sin will be ONE MAN. And rev. 13 makes it clear he will have a false prophet as a sidekick.

Please don't fall into the habit of reducing Scripture to 'figurative/symbolic' status as many cults & preterists do. Yes, there are SOME metaphors in Scripture, but it's mostly LITERAL.

 

[Baptist Believer]

When you say destroyed, you see this as JW and Sda, and not as Baptists do?

Many Baptists believe in the destruction of the wicked in the Lake of Fire, since the text plainly states, "This is the second death." (see Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14-15; 21:8). The belief that human beings survive in the Lake of Fire runs counter to the meaning of the image, as well as all the places in the Bible that speaks of "eternal life" being exclusively for God's people. There are only a couple of questionable "proof texts" for eternal conscious torment, while there are hundreds for conditional mortality.

I do not look to JWs and SDAs for theology. Their views are different from mine.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Please don't fall into the habit of reducing Scripture to 'figurative/symbolic' status as many cults & preterists do.

That sounds like a good response, but you are imposing the idea of microchips onto the text without any sort of biblical precedent. Moreover, the tying of my opinion to "cults & preterists" does a nice job of rhetorically undermining my point.

The literal use of phylacteries was not the point of Deuteronomy 6, but rather, an internalization of the Law into the mind and actions of the wearer. One could fulfill all of the external rituals and be a son of hell, just like the OT prophets and Jesus taught. So I'm actually NOT turning something into a symbol that wasn't a symbol already, while you are imposing a 20th century (now 21st century) speculation on the text and proclaiming it to be authoritative.

It seems quite strange to me that first-century Christians were being warned about accepting microchips into their skin. That runs counter to good principles of biblical exegesis.

 

[robycop3]

Many Baptists believe in the destruction of the wicked in the Lake of Fire, since the text plainly states, "This is the second death." (see Revelation 2:11; 20:6, 14-15; 21:8). The belief that human beings survive in the Lake of Fire runs counter to the meaning of the image, as well as all the places in the Bible that speaks of "eternal life" being exclusively for God's people. There are only a couple of questionable "proof texts" for eternal conscious torment, while there are hundreds for conditional mortality.

I do not look to JWs and SDAs for theology. Their views are different from mine.

But Scripture says they'll be in the LOF FOREVER.

 

[robycop3]

That sounds like a good response, but you are imposing the idea of microchips onto the text without any sort of biblical precedent. Moreover, the tying of my opinion to "cults & preterists" does a nice job of rhetorically undermining my point.

The literal use of phylacteries was not the point of Deuteronomy 6, but rather, an internalization of the Law into the mind and actions of the wearer. One could fulfill all of the external rituals and be a son of hell, just like the OT prophets and Jesus taught. So I'm actually NOT turning something into a symbol that wasn't a symbol already, while you are imposing a 20th century (now 21st century) speculation on the text and proclaiming it to be authoritative.

It seems quite strange to me that first-century Christians were being warned about accepting microchips into their skin. That runs counter to good principles of biblical exegesis.

God gave the warnings to be passed on to future generations.

Remember, there's been NO marka the beast yet, as history proves.