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Taking the Mark of the Beast
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Paul from Antioch
Active Member
I don't know. I'm not going to be on earth during the Trib, so why do I need to know since I won't be around to "take the mark of the Beast" anyway. Seems to me that there's way too much speculation on BB that no one knows the absolute answer to something about which the Bible isn't very specific on anyway!! IOW, "I no comprendo senor!"
Paul from Antioch
Active Member
The mark is symbolic. It represents submitting either your mind or works to antichrist.
"I'll bow to the idol and design a cake to glorify your sodomy, BUT in my heart I reject them both." That's the mark on the back of the hand. It's the number of a man. IOW, one has yielded his hands to the wisdom of man.
"It's just a cake. "
"Love your neighbor."
"Just do your job."
Can one be saved? Of course. Thomas Bilney recanted the doctrine of grace under pressure, but because he was of the elect, repented and went to the stake.
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven.
"I'll bow to the idol and design a cake to glorify your sodomy, BUT in my heart I reject them both." That's the mark on the back of the hand. It's the number of a man. IOW, one has yielded his hands to the wisdom of man.
"It's just a cake. "
"Love your neighbor."
"Just do your job."
Can one be saved? Of course. Thomas Bilney recanted the doctrine of grace under pressure, but because he was of the elect, repented and went to the stake.
All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven.
No, as that mark will be taken only by those who accept the antichrist as being their Lord messiah!
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Can God be convinced to put your name back into the Lamb's book of life, once He removes it and declares, "I never knew you"?
It is a challenge to convince people their name is there in the first place and that they are known by God and can know God personally.
Those who take the mark will know God. It will be the choice of rebellion against the God they do know. It will not be a mystery, or step of faith to take the mark, and remove one's name from the Lamb's book of life.
God will not change one's mind after God declared them removed from His. I would say those in sheol after thousands of years have a better chance at remaining in the Lamb's book of life, than one not found there, can convince God to put their name back in.
The verses in Revelation dealing with the mark, also point out that those with the mark do not have their name in the Lamb's book of life. Now one can argue if it was ever there to begin with. How does a person know their name is not there, and thus automatically feel the need to take the mark?
This part is exactly right.
except that it will be a physical mark and sign! It will identify you as belonging to the antichrist, how can a symbolic thing do that>
I think you misunderstood.
I am not talking about someone who was a Christian - THEN too the marker
Rather - a person is NOT a Christian - takes a mark - THEN becomes a Christian - ......
But you brought up an interesting point - you accept Christ doing the Trib. - THEN take the mark of the Beast.
37818
Well-Known Member
No. Once one's name is removed from the book of life one is doomed to the second death. Revelation 20:15, "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
Revelation 14:8, ". . . If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: . . ."
Revelation 13:4, ". . . they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, . . ."
Revelation 13:8, ". . . all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb . . . ."
Please read post # 9, then you can answer the OP
37818
Well-Known Member
There is no Biblical basis for such a notion.
I am of the point of view the names are not written in the book because they where blotted out. Exodus 32:33 is first reference. Second reference, Psalms 69:27-28. The word of God is silent on when and why names are in God's book. That is a matter of interpertation. The promise in not to have one's blotted out of the book, Revelation 3:5 per 1 John 5:4-5. I am of the persuasion names are in the book do to a general atonement. That is how children too young to believe are safe, there names remain in the book, Matthew 19:14, Revelation 20:15.
37818
Well-Known Member
Mark 3:28-30, "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. . . ." The ultimate rejection of Christ.
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thomas15
Well-Known Member
The time of the tribulation, in my judgement will be much like other times of judgement however it will be universal in scope and final.
Much like in the days of Noah, there will come a certain point where Salvation will be impossible. When Jehovah closed the door of the Ark, that was it, no amount of pleading would help. In the tribulation, once a person decides that Jehovah cannot or will not supply his/her needs, the door is shut. John tells us that men will seek death because the pain will be too much. It will be a awful time but once one places their faith and trust in Satan or his angels and worship him, that is it, game over. My thought is that once a person accepts the mark it is like a baptism, a public display of unity with the man of sin.
Much like in the days of Noah, there will come a certain point where Salvation will be impossible. When Jehovah closed the door of the Ark, that was it, no amount of pleading would help. In the tribulation, once a person decides that Jehovah cannot or will not supply his/her needs, the door is shut. John tells us that men will seek death because the pain will be too much. It will be a awful time but once one places their faith and trust in Satan or his angels and worship him, that is it, game over. My thought is that once a person accepts the mark it is like a baptism, a public display of unity with the man of sin.
Paul from Antioch
Active Member
Has our US of A already set the stage for this mark? I'm not gonna say that I know everything there is to know about all the details of Revelation, but did we ever consider that our Social Security Number always needs to be on our application of just about everything that we "buy or sell"? When the SocSec first came out, only people nearing their retirement years were concerned about having to use that number (Which, BTW, the first three numbers of our SSN tells "inquiring minds" exactly where that person received it.) I remember when I was in the USAF back around the late 1960s - early 1970s, our "service number" was replaced with our SSN. And now even newborn children are assigned one. Is it too much of a reach to now consider these "bit" coins seem to be rapidly taking the place of our currency (Like the "Euro" has already done in most of Europe.). Again, Jesus while He was here on earth chose not to know the dates and/or times of "the end," but isn't amazing that it's taken only some 50 years or so to set the stage for what Revelation seems to indicate what one can expect to occur during the Trib?
timtofly
Well-Known Member
No one "joins the church" during Satan's 42 months.
2 choices: beheaded to avoid the mark.
Take the mark.
Getting one's head chopped off is not joining the church. It is getting a one way ticket to Revelation 20:4.
Paul says the church leaves when the Lamb and the One on the throne arrives. If they can see both the Lamb and the Lord Adonai God at the 6th Seal, then the church is gone. No joining the church or getting saved, if the church has already been complete and glorified, and the door of the "Ark" Paradise is closed. It will be shut up until, it returns as the New Jerusalem in the NHNE.
Paul from Antioch
Active Member
Paul from Antioch
Active Member
Don't mean to Hijack this thread, but is your "NHNE" simply an abbreviated way of writing the "New Heaven & New Earth"? Just wondering...BTW, I'll be 75 YO on this coming SONday.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
The Bible is not silent on being sealed in the Lamb's book of life. Only the Lamb can unseal the book. Only the Lamb was the Atonement that sealed all the names in the book on the Cross and before the heavens and earth were created.
Part of the interpretation delimma is: was the book there before the foundation or the names not in the book before the foundation? What was exactly before the foundation? Limited Atonement from before the foundation? Or full Atonement, and after the 7th Seal is opened, names can be blotted out?
Yes, Moses knew about the book and the Seals, and still thought it more noble to be blotted out himself, if only to save all his people. Only one being could save them and that was the Atonement on the Cross. Moses could not be the scapegoat. Moses was only a typology of Christ.
Now what is the day of Redemption, all are sealed unto? The day of Redemption was the Cross. Yet not all of the OT was in Abraham's bosom. Yet at the Cross all of those in Abraham's bosom were delivered at the day of Redemption into Paradise. No one can loose their Redemption once in Paradise. Now the soul of a believer, enters Paradise and leaves the dead physical body for a living permanent incorruptible body, every time a person who has accepted that Redemption leaves Adam's flesh. That is their day of Redemption. They are no longer physically barred from Paradise. Since Redemption is the ability to enter Paradise, once a soul enters, that is the day the soul in Adam's flesh no longer needs to be sealed. The rest of the dead do not live again until the GWT. Are they still sealed after being in sheol? They should be as they have not entered Paradise. They cannot be removed from the Lamb's book of life until the GWT.
At the 4th Seal we have the introduction of Death. Death is a phenomenon separate from sheol, as there is the distinction at the GWT.
The 5th Seal is the glorification of all those in Paradise. The 6th Seal is the glorification of those dead walking around on earth in Christ, who are changed into incorruptible bodies and then glorified.
The 144k are sealed on the earth between the 6th and 7th Seal. No one can die physically on earth until after the 7th Seal is opened. (They are hiding under the mountains trying to die, but cannot.) So now we start the Trumpets. Do lost souls, now, go to sheol, or Death? Matthew 25 states that the goats are not sent to sheol, but Death. They are eternally damned. They are the first to be removed from the Lamb's book of life, since they missed the church, missed being a sheep, and certainly do not seem to get another chance at the GWT. In fact, it is the harvest, and they if like other parables are sent to the Lake of Fire or Death, which is permanent like the incorruptible body is permanent life, and cannot die and be sent to the Lake of Fire. The angels are here to transport souls accordingly.
Then in the Thunders, we have left on earth the wheat and the tares. These kingdom parables in the Gospels have to be for this final harvest time at the Second Coming. They do not make sense, as works based salvation. Once again the angels take souls to the Resurrection in Revelation 20:4 which is the firstfruits of the final harvest. The final harvest comes to a close at the 7th Trumpet.
Now is the interruption of a delay. Daniel 9:27 the week of the 7th Trumpet is split for a time of desolation never before seen on earth. Satan is allowed control of the vineyard. Before the final wrath of God's winepress. Only 2 witnesses are on earth. The Lamb and the 144k retire to Mount Zion and the sea of glass in Revelation 14 and 15. Now, IF Satan gets his 42 months. The if is because the harvest of the church, and the harvest by Christ could leave no one on earth. A big if as in a Nineveh if. Both Daniel and John indicate failure in the process of the Lamb confirming the Covenant with the many. Many still may reject thus allowing the desolation of abomination.
So the question is why do some still opt to be beheaded as opposed to taking the mark. They are still sealed, until their day of Redemption. Which is the moment they get their head chopped off. Time has run out. The mark is an out of date stamp, more than a worship Satan stamp. I am sure that is not how Satan will spin it. I think those beheaded will do it to escape the mark. Interesting enough, Satan cannot kill one for not taking it. Satan kills those who do not worship. Those with the mark may still be killed by Satan, if they refuse to worship Satan. So, no, if a soul gets "saved", it is by having their head cut off. That is the end of the road. No mark, but Redemption.
Those with the mark, just end up in Death without their name in the Lamb's book of life. God is not obligated to write their name back in, they broke the seal, and passed the day of Redemption. They ran out of time and passed the date of expiration. That is what the mark is any way. A date stamp. They passed the 6000 years of Adam's punishment. Revelation 10:7 declares time is up, no more, once the 7th Trumpet sounds.
Personally, I think the mark seems like something that just starts appearing, and Satan takes economic advantage of it. Covid was a trial run. Covid stopped work almost in it's tracks. The Second Coming will stop work permanently for billions, one way or the other. After the final harvest, work and Adam's punishment is over, all 6000 years, 6 days a week, and 6 hours a day. Work has literally expired.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
I use NHNE with New Jerusalem.Don't mean to Hijack this thread, but is your "NHNE" simply an abbreviated way of writing the "New Heaven & New Earth"? Just wondering...BTW, I'll be 75 YO on this coming SONday.
It is better than NJ with the new heavens and earth. New Jersey is not on the NE. NJ is in the NE (north east) currently but not after the 6th Seal.
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