Then why are you posting? After all, the title of the thread is:Whether or not one adds the prepositional phrase "into one's heart," I find irrelevant.
ten-reasons-to-not-ask-jesus-into-your-heart-0
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Then why are you posting? After all, the title of the thread is:Whether or not one adds the prepositional phrase "into one's heart," I find irrelevant.
The only fluff here is your post. Cannot wait to get to the keyboard......off topic falsehoods. ...Here are some of the statements given in the OP (objections) :
- In order to be saved, a man must repent (Acts 2:38). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of repentance.
- In order to be saved, a man must trust in Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31). Asking Jesus into your heart leaves out the requirement of faith.
- The person who wrongly believes they are saved will have a false sense of security. Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure. They live in doubt and fear because they do not have the Holy Spirit giving them assurance of salvation.
- The person who asks Jesus into his heart will likely end up inoculated, bitter and backslidden. Because he did not get saved by reciting a formulaic prayer, he will grow disillusioned with Jesus, the Bible, church and fellow believers. His latter end will be worse than the first.
- It presents God as a beggar just hoping you will let Him into your busy life. This presentation of God robs Him of His sovereignty.
I quoted from the BF&M, which uses the actual expression "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior"
Whether or not one adds the prepositional phrase "into one's heart," I find irrelevant. It is the act of "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior," that most Calvinists here object to or have objected to in the past. The very act, they say, is a work. It is all or nothing "of God." Of course it is. But it is a gift that must be accepted by faith by man. And therein many object. I do not find "into one's heart" as the central point of objection.
For example, "Asking Jesus (into one's heart)" takes away from the requirement of repentance. If we go past the Book of Acts and go to the epistles where the doctrine of salvation is fully explained, where is repentance ever demanded for salvation? Salvation is always presented as "by grace through faith." One is justified by faith. Accepting Christ has nothing to do with repentance.
Second objection. Accepting Christ as Savior IS an act of faith. For by grace are ye saved through faith.
The very word "accepting" is found in the Bible. It is simply a synonym for "receiving."
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Who says (3rd objection) that: "Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure"
--What a joke? Does the author have evidence here? Please provide it.
I will give evidence for this. Rather just read it in the writings of the Puritans. Most of them struggled with an assurance of salvation not knowing at the end of their lives if God would accept them or not. It was the doctrine of "Perseverance of the Faith." They were never sure if they had "persevered" enough, if they were holy enough to be accepted of God. Never sure if they were "fully sanctified to enter into God's presence. Many of the Puritans struggled with this.
This is not true of those "that have trusted or accepted Christ as their Savior and Lord (whether into their heart or not).
Thus objection after objection is easily answered. It is all "fluff."
I wish you wouldn't bring things up in a thread that this has nothing to do with.Page 5, post # 85. It was your's and you directed it at me.
Own it.
Perhaps I should have put a question mark there instead of a period. Either way your English comprehension is lame. There are no quotation marks. There is no direct quote from you.Jesus Himself said that he did not take you out of this world but has left you in this world.
The world is not His. He said very clearly that the world would hate you because it hated Him (Christ).
Or according to you Christ hates himself. You have some weird theology.
I may be mistaking here, but I think that many who object to "inviting Jesus into your heart" will also object to "accepting Jesus into your life" or even "accepting Jesus as your Savior" in terms of salvation for pretty much the same reasons.As to the points in the OP, "into your heart" is more of an idiom. Like, "take a knee". It doesn't actually mean to take a knee. It means to kneel. " Ask Jesus into your heart " simply means accepting Him into your life. In common vernacular, the heart is iconic for the seat of emotions, and the control of your life. "I love you with all my heart", simply means that you are the most important thing to me.
In the past, the stomach was used the same way, and that carries over some now, like, " gut feeling". In other times, the liver was used. That is still how art critics today critique some art from old eras.
So, I have no problem with the phrase. I don't remember using it myself. I usually say something like, "accept Jesus as your Savior".
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Hate being exposed, eh?I wish you wouldn't bring things up in a thread that this has nothing to do with.
Nope. You said what you meant. .Perhaps I should have put a question mark there instead of a period.
Nope. I have a HS diploma, an A.A.S., with 111 college hours in my back pocket. My English comprehension is just fine, thank you. You said EXACTLY what you meant. Don't back up now.Either way your English comprehension is lame.
Duh!There are no quotation marks. There is no direct quote from you.
Same old schtick I see.It was a deduction from you.
It was like me saying, "Therefore, according to your reasoning, you have Christ hating himself," as the scripture says "God hates the world and all that it is in it." (1John 2:15,16; James 4:4).
I quoted from the BF&M, which uses the actual expression "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior"
Whether or not one adds the prepositional phrase "into one's heart," I find irrelevant.
It is the whole false idea and presentation that is objected to.It is the act of "accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior," that most Calvinists here object to or have objected to in the past. The very act, they say, is a work. It is all or nothing "of God." Of course it is.
Our beloved child lies in her snuggly warm bed and says, “Yes, Daddy. I want to ask Jesus into my heart.” You lead her in “the prayer” and hope that it sticks. You spend the next ten years questioning if she really, really meant it. Puberty hits and the answer reveals itself. She backslides. We spend the next ten years praying that she will come to her senses.
Telling someone to ask Jesus into their hearts has a very typical result, backsliding. the Bible says that a person who is soundly saved puts his hand to the plow and does not look back because he is fit for service. In other words, a true convert cannot backslide. If a person backslides, he never slid forward in the first place. “If any man is in Christ, he is a new creation.” (II Cor.5) No backsliding there.
Brace yourself for this one: with very few if any exceptions, anyone who asked Jesus into their hearts to be saved...is not. If you asked Jesus into your heart because you were told that is what you have to do to become a Christian, you were mis-informed.
But it is a gift that must be accepted by faith by man
Accepting Christ is not found in the bible at all....repentance is;For example, "Asking Jesus (into one's heart)" takes away from the requirement of repentance. If we go past the Book of Acts and go to the epistles where the doctrine of salvation is fully explained, where is repentance ever demanded for salvation? Salvation is always presented as "by grace through faith." One is justified by faith. Accepting Christ has nothing to do with repentance.
Second objection.
.Accepting Christ as Savior IS an act of faith
The very word "accepting" is found in the Bible. It is simply a synonym for "receiving."
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
That you teach such things is a joke, but a bad one at that as you repeat over and over.Who says (3rd objection) that: "Millions of people who sincerely, but wrongly, asked Jesus into their hearts think they are saved but struggle to feel secure"
--What a joke?
About as much evidence as you have of "dead Lazarus" ...ACCEPTING.... that he dead, and resurrecting himself by faith.Does the author have evidence here? Please provide it.
I will give evidence for this.
.Rather just read it in the writings of the Puritans. Most of them struggled with an assurance of salvation not knowing at the end of their lives if God would accept them or not
Nonsense...It was the doctrine of "Perseverance of the Faith." They were never sure if they had "persevered" enough, if they were holy enough to be accepted of God. Never sure if they were "fully sanctified to enter into God's presence. Many of the Puritans struggled with this.
of course not, we remember how you told us everyone in your church is saved...NotworthyNotworthyNotworthyNotworthyRedfaceRedfaceRedfaceRedfaceThis is not true of those "that have trusted or accepted Christ as their Savior and Lord (whether into their heart or not).
after reading your post...we see where the "fluff" is...CautiousCautiousCautiousCautiousCautiousCautiousCautiousThus objection after objection is easily answered. It is all "fluff."
I didn't lie. Stop falsely accusing me, and stop bringing this nonsense up in public.Hate being exposed, eh?
Nope. You said what you meant. .
Nope. I have a HS diploma, an A.A.S., with 111 college hours in my back pocket. My English comprehension is just fine, thank you. You said EXACTLY what you meant. Don't back up now.
Duh!
Same old schtick I see.
More deduction, eh? You lied. Own it.
Great verse used by the CoC as no one is saved without being immersed in H2O.Acts 2:38 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
This is from your horrible interlinear? This goms up the word of God.Peter Yet averred toward them after mind ye and let be being dipzed each of ye on the name of Jesus anointed into from letting misses and ye shall be getting the gratuity of the Holy Spirit.
Someone else on here beats that drum, flaps their gums saying this. To turn to God is to turn from self. To turn to God, means turning to His righteousness and away from one's selfrighteousness. To turn to God is to repent of your sins. Sheesh!!The OP’s 10 points show 1 verse for salvation Acts 2:38, it says nothing about repenting from their sins.
Oh lawd!! When you turn to God, you turn from self. When you repented, what did you repent of? You good deeds? You evil deeds(sins)? Your not so good...but not so bad deeds? Which is it? Speak up!!It says repent, that after mind in the Greek, turning their mind to Christ, change their minds about Who Jesus was and turn to believing on Him. When they do they will have remission of sin and they will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit that is the Holy Spirit will enter their life (Heart) as a proof of salvation. I find not one verse that says repent of your sins.
We oppose it because it is NOT IN THE BIBLE. The unregenerate's heart is wicked, and yet they ask Him to come into it? They hate Him, yet ask Him to come into their heart?Where do folks that oppose asking Jesus into heart doesn’t save them,
No problem with this.of course what I tell folks and have people do is admit they are a sinner and that they believe that Jesus died on the cross for them and that they accept Him as their savior.
You have this backwards. The Spirit is sent in and THEN they call upon Him. The Spirit changes the condition of the heart from, cold, dead, hard, and hates Him, to warm, alive, soft as flesh that loves Him. They call out after the Spirit moves in, not before. They trust Him after He moves in, not before. They are in unbelief until then.Once they do then I will tell them, if they are children Jesus is in their heart, because Guess what Scripture says it happens in a nanosecond. Galatians 4:6 states after trusting in Christ, “And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
One doesn't 'become' a son as you are purporting. One became a son from the creation of the world. God sends His Spirit to those He chose as His sons(sheep, elect, church) and by them believing proves they were already His.When does one become a son when they trust in Christ, He enters their heart according to this.
This is proof the Spirit is ALREADY in their heart and not proof they asked Him into their hearts. Misapplying scripture does not support your ideology.We see Romans 8: 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
More proof of an already accomplished divine act performed by God.10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Agree. So?No one is saved who doesn’t have the Holy Spirit indwelling them,
Agree. So?if a person doesn’t Have the Holy Spirit or as we see in Galatians 4:6 the Spirit of the Son in them then they are not saved.
Agree. So? Christ dwelling in believers does not prove one asked Him into their heart. The Spirit enters, rearranges the furniture so-to-speak, changes the disposition of the heart PRIOR TO them calling out to Him.Then in verse 10 of Romans 8 we see if Christ be in you, seems He comes into our lives and Paul in Galatians 4:6 makes it clear those who are sons have Christ in their hearts, Paul’s words.
And those who are in a state of unbelief can not believe. Those who are God's enemy will not seek Him. Those who hate Him can not love Him.Then we see this Paul states in Romans 10:13 “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Calling upon saying Lord I am a sinner and I believe you paid for my sins and I repent of my unbelief and turn to you in belief, is the same as saying Lord Jesus I am sinner come into my Life (Heart) and change me.
A bit off topic but I wanted to respond to this. After my husband and I moved last summer and we were church hunting, it was amazing how many pastors gave us the deer in the headlights look when we asked for a doctrinal statment. Often we would be handed a track. It was very dishartening. But thankfully we found a good church, even if it is an hour awayI agree. And that's the least of my concern with the SBC (and I am a SBC member). Frown
What is more distressing is that if they did try to have a doctrinal statement specific to their local church, I'm not sure that many would have enough doctrine to put in the statement. It'd be a 3x5 card.
(that is...btw...exaggeration....most could fill a 3x5 card Laugh)
In the future, instead of inferring my posts, ask for clarification. Okay? Don't assume, just ask me what I meant if you're unsure what I meant. Deal?I didn't lie. Stop falsely accusing me, and stop bringing this nonsense up in public.
First, you seem to have a problem in English comprehension.
Second, you fail to see any quotation marks don't you?
Third, if there is no quotation marks there is no quote.
Fourth, you cannot read my mind as you just stated, which is a lie by you (i.e., "Nope that is not what you meant.") Obviously you don't accept what I meant even after I explained it to you. You just call me a liar instead. You don't want the truth, accept the truth; you would rather deny it.
Now stop being a troll and answer the OP.
One should not let distance hinder them in a church hunt. Now, if it's ten hours? Well...A bit off topic but I wanted to respond to this. After my husband and I moved last summer and we were church hunting, it was amazing how many pastors gave us the deer in the headlights look when we asked for a doctrinal statment. Often we would be handed a track. It was very dishartening. But thankfully we found a good church, even if it is an hour away
We don't and it gives us some good conversation time. But its sad that we have to drive that far for a good church. It does make fellowship a bit hard but we make it work.One should not let distance hinder them in a church hunt. Now, if it's ten hours? Well...
We have always had a strong statement, but it was largely ignored (it became kind of a fixture). Recently we've renewed it, updated it, and have reviewed it with the church (affirmation is a part of membership). It is necessary in order to keep doctrine. We may not always agree, but firm belief on what we do believe is important. Spurgeon noted that once these "differences" are gone then truth is gone as well - (Man's Will/God's Will).A bit off topic but I wanted to respond to this. After my husband and I moved last summer and we were church hunting, it was amazing how many pastors gave us the deer in the headlights look when we asked for a doctrinal statment. Often we would be handed a track. It was very dishartening. But thankfully we found a good church, even if it is an hour away
Another convoluted posting dealing with God's foreknowledge. It is always based upon what man does in your view, doesn't it? If God had not sent His Son to be imputed with their sins so His sheep could be imputed with His righteousness, He would hate EVERYONE. God hates sins and sinners. If not for Christ, He would hate all mankind. Praise be to God for the effacacious crosswork of Christ.So why did He hate Esau, because He knew before their birth to choices Esau would make.
More distortion of His foreknowldge I see. When is enough enough with you?!?!?He knew all Esau would do before Esau was ever conceived, therefore He hated the deeds of Esau.
So, per you, God is pschizo? He hates and then when they do good, He then loves them? Pschizo...purely pschizo.God actually Loved Esau as He loves all mankind,
This does not support your ideology here. God is also a God of hate, jealousy, wrath, vengence, holiness, righteousness, &c. So by using your thought here, since God is love He loves everyone. If God is also a God of hatred, then He hates everyone. If He is a God of vengence, then He is taking vengence on everyone. If God is a God of wrath, then He is pouring wrath out on everyone. You do not think you ideologies all the way through. God's attributes are more than just love.1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
All these verses are directed to His sheep and not everybody w/o exception.Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Because of His Love God sent Christ to die for sinners and Paul said He was the chiefest of sinners.
He knew beforehand because He decreed it. Not because He saw that Paul would do it. You need to learn to not corrupt the biblical view of God's foreknowledge.By the way why did God choose Paul the chiefest of sinners and not call all the Pharisees who saw themselves as righteous? Because God knew Paul beforehand and knew the choice Paul would make to believe.
You sure read things into other peoples post. God is a God of love Scripture tells us so. Christ was given to the world because God so loved it that He gave His only begotten Son. What does God hate? Sin whose sin everyones! I have almost had my fill of the name calling, false accusations and the like from a few here and was about ready to quit posting, that is until God lead you to post this Thanks for the encouragement to continue.Another convoluted posting dealing with God's foreknowledge. It is always based upon what man does in your view, doesn't it? If God had not sent His Son to be imputed with their sins so His sheep could be imputed with His righteousness, He would hate EVERYONE. God hates sins and sinners. If not for Christ, He would hate all mankind. Praise be to God for the effacacious crosswork of Christ.
More distortion of His foreknowldge I see. When is enough enough with you?!?!?
So, per you, God is pschizo? He hates and then when they do good, He then loves them? Pschizo...purely pschizo.
This does not support your ideology here. God is also a God of hate, jealousy, wrath, vengence, holiness, righteousness, &c. So by using your thought here, since God is love He loves everyone. If God is also a God of hatred, then He hates everyone. If He is a God of vengence, then He is taking vengence on everyone. If God is a God of wrath, then He is pouring wrath out on everyone. You do not think you ideologies all the way through. God's attributes are more than just love.
All these verses are directed to His sheep and not everybody w/o exception.
He knew beforehand because He decreed it. Not because He saw that Paul would do it. You need to learn to not corrupt the biblical view of God's foreknowledge.
That's why I seek clarification from you.You sure read things into other peoples post.
Yes. But He also is a God of hatred, wrath, vengence, jealousy, holiness, righteousness. But everybody wants to focus on love and leave the others alone for some reason.God is a God of love Scripture tells us so.
He loved the world, the globe, but not all of its inhabitants. His love is for His chosen sheep.Christ was given to the world because God so loved it that He gave His only begotten Son.
So God hates you? Srsly? In context, He hates those He never chose from the creation of the world. His love is poured out upon His sheep and wrath upon the goats. John 3:36What does God hate? Sin whose sin everyones!
I have almost had my fill of the name calling, false accusations and the like from a few here and was about ready to quit posting, that is until God lead you to post this Thanks for the encouragement to continue.
I try to clarify things but of course get accused of gross sin. God's wrath is coming, the Tribulation will soon occur. His love for mankind brought His son to the earth. God hates it every time anyone sins, does He hate the person? He chose those whom He foreknew, Those He foreknew them He also called. The thing is the word translated as foreknew means to know beforehand. That means In His omniscience He knew all about them. Is He jealous yes like we get jealous of course not. Does He hate yes but not in the context of what we believe is Hate. In fact His command is that we love all men, we can't hate as the world hates and neither does He. Does He deal in vengeance scripture states vengeance is His not ours. Did His vengeance occur for Annaias and Sapphira, yes and why they lied to the Holy Spirit. Was there a lesson in it, you bet we as Believers are not to lie to the Holy Spirit. But God has other attributes. He doesn't want anyone to perish and it saddens Him when they do. He would have all men to be saved 1 Timothy 2:4.That's why I seek clarification from you.
Yes. But He also is a God of hatred, wrath, vengence, jealousy, holiness, righteousness. But everybody wants to focus on love and leave the others alone for some reason.
He loved the world, the globe, but not all of its inhabitants. His love is for His chosen sheep.
So God hates you? Srsly? In context, He hates those He never chose from the creation of the world. His love is poured out upon His sheep and wrath upon the goats. John 3:36
Just keep looking up my Brother.
...maybe God will allow you to gain some understanding on these things...
remember;
4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
All of God's eternal purpose is perfect, just and right is He in that He has ordained whatsoever comes to pass.