That is NOT what "Your body is a Temple" means!

[quantumfaith]

As for the "billions" of good causes.

I do agree with Havensdad that the PRIMARY focus of our churches is to share the message and love of our LORD. But, I do think we should also demonstrate that love with service to others and to be stewards of creation. After all, mankind was given the obligation of stewardship responsibilities long before he was given an evangelistic obligation. Unfortunately, we christians, (mostly conservatives) have given up many issues to the domain of the political fringe (usually the left).

 

[pinoybaptist]

I have heard it put forward that the body spoken of as the temple is the local body or gathering of believers. Not that I buy into that myself but I've heard it said that way.

 

[InTheLight]

Now, some try to say "But your Body is a 'temple'!" Listen to me; That verse has NOTHING to do with exercising or "eating right." It is talking about not using your body for things the Bible says is sinful; do not use it for adultery, or lying, or killing, or stealing. It is not telling you to start an exercise plan!

Preachers that have used the 'body is a temple' to denounce things like smoking, drinking a glass of wine or having a beer, or being overweight always bothered me too. My reasoning was that the physical body is disconnected from the Holy Spirit. Their preaching always insinuated that the Holy Spirit used your body as a house and if you were unhealthy, the Holy Spirit was grieved. I never bought into that reasoning. Thanks for your post.

 

[Ternera]

I don't think that not excersizing and eating too much is a sin. However, I think that prioritising the food over everything else is. This is why the Bible advices us to fast from time to time, to remember that we eat to live, not live to eat :smilewinkgrin: In the other hand, too much of healthy lifestyle is also prioritizing the flesh. I think that going crazy about "being green", eating organic only, staying fit and even excersizing is a sin, too.
MY favorite New Testament verse, 1 Corinthians 6:12, kind of sums it up.

 

[webdog]

I think many are dismissing the fact a passage of Scripture can have numerous truths. I agree with the OP, that it is speaking of the body in spiritual terms, but the fact is we are also called to be good stewards of EVERYTHING God has given us including our bodies. The context of the OP is in regards to sexual sin, which is a physical act as is eating, drinking, etc. If we are to abstain from sexual sin due to the fact our bodies are "temples" so to speak, it logically follows that EVERY physical act we commit with our bodies should also be viewed in this same light.

 

[HAMel]

In my youth I was as strong as an ox. Used to be able to grab the rear bumper of a mid-size car and bounce it off the ground.

Needless to say, there is nothing wrong with physical endurance, strength, working out, etc.

For bodily exercise profits little: but godliness is profitable to all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 1 Tim 4:8

This verse is not speaking "against" maintaining good health, strength and so on, but there are some who's body and physical appearance does become their God. In this regard, exercise profits little when it comes to the big scheme of things.

Keep up the workouts. When the time comes your body will tell you when to slow down or stop. Guys like Ali never caught on.

ps: what bothers me is when someone who is stronger than the average bear decides to reflect his strength while shaking hands. Arthritis hurts. One day they will reap what they sowed. :laugh:

 

[Havensdad]

Havensdad

Definition of GLUTTONY

1: excess in eating or drinking
2: greedy or excessive indulgence

"Science doe not lie" ???? It has in the past when it says something that YOU dont like or do not accept.

What are you talking about? Are you talking about Old Age/Evolutionary religion? Or are you talking about real science, that is testable, repeatable, and demonstrable?

Please show where the word "gluttony" is used in the Old Testament, or new testament, as condemning stuffing yourself at a meal.

I defy you.

The word translated "gluttony" in the Old Testament, in some translations, is condemned. But this word (Zalal) does not mean "eating too much at dinner." It means worthless, vile, or insignificant.

The only person in the new testament speaking out against eating a lot, is the Pharisees, who were condemning Jesus! Of course, they also condemned Him for not washing His hands, and healing on the Sabbath...are those things also "sinful"?

 

[Havensdad]

Engaging in excessive eating/drinking.

That is not the definition of the Hebrew term. The Hebrew term translated "Glutton" just means vile or worthless. Nothing to do with "overeating."

 

[Havensdad]

I think many are dismissing the fact a passage of Scripture can have numerous truths. I agree with the OP, that it is speaking of the body in spiritual terms, but the fact is we are also called to be good stewards of EVERYTHING God has given us including our bodies. The context of the OP is in regards to sexual sin, which is a physical act as is eating, drinking, etc. If we are to abstain from sexual sin due to the fact our bodies are "temples" so to speak, it logically follows that EVERY physical act we commit with our bodies should also be viewed in this same light.

The verse is not talking about taking care of the Physical health of the body. It is speaking of taking care of the Spiritual health of the body. So unless you can show in scripture where being unhealthy (physically) is sinful, that verse is not speaking to that.

You have to look at authorial intent. What was Paul trying to say? That we need to exercise and eat right? No. He was telling us not to sin.

 

[HAMel]

The verse is not talking about taking care of the Physical health of the body. It is speaking of taking care of the Spiritual health of the body. So unless you can show in scripture where being unhealthy (physically) is sinful, that verse is not speaking to that.

How right you are. No need to argue it with me.

 

[webdog]

The verse is not talking about taking care of the Physical health of the body. It is speaking of taking care of the Spiritual health of the body.

I never said it was. It IS about using your body in an unrighteous manner, though.

So unless you can show in scripture where being unhealthy (physically) is sinful, that verse is not speaking to that.

Gluttony is sinful. It is a fact. So is sloth. That is a fact. So is not being a good steward of your body. That is a fact. What more do you want?

You have to look at authorial intent. What was Paul trying to say? That we need to exercise and eat right? No. He was telling us not to sin.

The intent was in discussing sexual sin, that is the context of that passage. The fact remains sexual sin is a physical act in the same manner gluttony and drunkeness is (gluttony in itself).

 

[webdog]

That is not the definition of the Hebrew term. The Hebrew term translated "Glutton" just means vile or worthless. Nothing to do with "overeating."

Not so. Gluttony is always understood in the OT and NT as over indulgence in ANYTHING. Being "vile" or "worthless" doesn't lead to poverty (rags) Proverbs 23:21; Numbers 11:31-34

 

[Havensdad]

I never said it was. It IS about using your body in an unrighteous manner, though.

Which has nothing to do with exercise and diet. You can be morbidly obese, and not be using your body in an unrighteous manner.

Gluttony is sinful. It is a fact. So is sloth. That is a fact. So is not being a good steward of your body. That is a fact. What more do you want?

#1 Gluttony: Show me in scripture where gluttony, as defined as "Eating too much" is sinful. Please.

#2 "Slothfullness," is a refusal to do ones job due to laziness. If ones job is to work behind a computer all day, and he does it with diligence, he is not being "slothful." "Slothful" does not refer to intentional deliberate physical exercise, it is about not doing your job.

#3 Show me where being a "Good steward" of your body is commanded in scripture, other than abstaining from sin. Nowhere does scripture command diet or exercise.

The intent was in discussing sexual sin, that is the context of that passage. The fact remains sexual sin is a physical act in the same manner gluttony and drunkeness is (gluttony in itself).

Eating too much, and not exercising, is not gluttony. The word "Gluttony" in the Old Testament means to be 'Vile" or "worthless." It is not about refraining from fatty foods.

Thought this was interesting....

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

 

[webdog]

Which has nothing to do with exercise and diet. You can be morbidly obese, and not be using your body in an unrighteous manner.

You cannot tell me that someone who is 500 lbs got there by taking care of their body and eating right. As a personal trainer, I do realize there are instances where genetics play a role in weight gain. Gluttony is over-indulgence, what you fail to grasp. If a human being needs 3000 calories a day, it is over-indulgence to take in that many in one meal.

#1 Gluttony: Show me in scripture where gluttony, as defined as "Eating too much" is sinful. Please.

Do you recall the "unworthy manner" the Lord's supper was being observed? Drunkenness is gluttony...and I'm sure you already know the Scripture commanding us not to partake.

#2 "Slothfulness," is a refusal to do ones job due to laziness. If ones job is to work behind a computer all day, and he does it with diligence, he is not being "slothful." "Slothful" does not refer to intentional deliberate physical exercise, it is about not doing your job.

Taking care of ourselves and everything else God has given to us is also our job...it is not an "either / or" proposition pertaining to careers vs. stewardship.

#3 Show me where being a "Good steward" of your body is commanded in scripture, other than abstaining from sin. Nowhere does scripture command diet or exercise.

The old argument from silence tactic. Are you not aware of the parable of the talents (Matt. 25) and the parable of the wise steward (Luke 16)? The Bible starts right off in a command to stewardship...
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

Eating too much, and not exercising, is not gluttony. The word "Gluttony" in the Old Testament means to be 'Vile" or "worthless." It is not about refraining from fatty foods.

Why do you continue to limit the definition of gluttony to that one Hebrew word...and limit it down to the OT alone?

1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared,
1Ti 4:3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Talk about ripping Scripture from context! You are better than that!

 

[Thousand Hills]

For bodily exercise profits little: but godliness is profitable to all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come. 1 Tim 4:8

This verse is not speaking "against" maintaining good health, strength and so on, but there are some who's body and physical appearance does become their God. In this regard, exercise profits little when it comes to the big scheme of things.

Agree, our society is obsessed with image and that sometimes carries over into the church. People make physical fitness their idol at times.

I appreciate the OP bringing up this subject, I've thought about posing the question about what it means to be a Healthy Christian. It seems to me that every other day "researchers" are saying this will kill you or give you cancer, or that will kill you and give you cancer, eggs are good/no eggs are bad, so on and so on.

Maybe I lean to much toward the Sovereignty of God in these things, but as a Christian, if its our time to go is it not our time to go? I'm a little overweight, myself, I could spend time at the gym and give up delicious foods in order to fit someone else's ideal of healthy, what good would it do though if the Lord calls me home through a car wreck or various other ways.

PSALM 139

13 For You formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mother’s womb.
14 I will praise You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
Marvelous are Your works,
And that my soul knows very well.
15 My frame was not hidden from You,
When I was made in secret,
And skillfully wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16 Your eyes saw my substance, being yet unformed.
And in Your book they all were written,
The days fashioned for me,
When as yet there were none of them.

 

[Havensdad]

Not so. Gluttony is always understood in the OT and NT as over indulgence in ANYTHING. Being "vile" or "worthless" doesn't lead to poverty (rags) Proverbs 23:21; Numbers 11:31-34

The definition of the word, is not up to you.

zâlal
BDB Definition:
1) to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant, be light
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be worthless, be insignificant
1a2) to make light of, squander, be lavish with

It may well be applicable if taken as meaning to "eat up all your food, so you have none left," but if that is the case, it would not apply to people who had plenty.

Either way, "Gluttony" here does not mean overeating.

 

[webdog]

The definition of the word, is not up to you.

zâlal
BDB Definition:
1) to be worthless, be vile, be insignificant, be light
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to be worthless, be insignificant
1a2) to make light of, squander, be lavish with

It may well be applicable if taken as meaning to "eat up all your food, so you have none left," but if that is the case, it would not apply to people who had plenty.

Either way, "Gluttony" here does not mean overeating.

...and it is not up to you, either. The NT (greek) was equally inspired by the Holy Spirit. Does gaster sound familiar?

 

[Havensdad]

You cannot tell me that someone who is 500 lbs got there by taking care of their body and eating right. As a personal trainer, I do realize there are instances where genetics play a role in weight gain. Gluttony is over-indulgence, what you fail to grasp. If a human being needs 3000 calories a day, it is over-indulgence to take in that many in one meal.

Who says? You? So you are now the authority; you get to define the line where something is "gluttonous"?

Do you recall the "unworthy manner" the Lord's supper was being observed? Drunkenness is gluttony...and I'm sure you already know the Scripture commanding us not to partake.

? Perhaps you are confusing me with a teetotaler (I am not)...I have no idea why the jab in the last part of your sentence.

"Unworthy manner" was nothing to do with Gluttony. It had to do with Christians who had much, coming in and eating their food in front of those who had nothing. Nowhere is "gluttony" spoken of in these passages.

Taking care of ourselves and everything else God has given to us is also our job...it is not an "either / or" proposition pertaining to careers vs. stewardship.

It is an either/or proposition, since we were NEVER commanded to diet and exercise, or to stay a certain weight. There is nothing in the Bible about that. You are assuming, as does the majority of the U.S., that being skinny is better stewardship. However, who is going to last longer when the food supplies run out? (I say this tongue in cheek). "Better stewardship" is a matter of opinion. If scripture is silent, we need to be silent.

The old argument from silence tactic. Are you not aware of the parable of the talents (Matt. 25) and the parable of the wise steward (Luke 16)?

Neither of which have anything to do with eating right and staying in shape. Those are about utilizing of spiritual gifts (hint: the failure to do so results in Hell)..

The Bible starts right off in a command to stewardship...
26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Why do you continue to limit the definition of gluttony to that one Hebrew word...and limit it down to the OT alone?

Uh, because the Bible does? You cannot take an English definition of a word, and impose it on a Hebrew text. The Hebrew word does not mean over eating. The New Testament does not condemn "gluttony"...only the Pharisees do. Even that word, BTW, does not mean simply eating a lot.

Talk about ripping Scripture from context! You are better than that!

Nothing out of context with it. Presumably, according to you, a dish that is 3,000 calories would be sinful to eat, even though the Bible expressly allows it. People are making Christianity all about silly stuff: staying in shape, eating a certain diet, etc. It has NOTHING to do with any of that. It is about the Gospel.

I realize that due to your work, you have a vested interest in this discussion, but you really need to think a little more about what you are saying. I mean, come on, you are better than that!

 

[Alive in Christ]

ThousandHills...

Agree, our society is obsessed with image and that sometimes carries over into the church. People make physical fitness their idol at times.

Boy, isnt THAT the truth. Its sickening. Sometimes I'll be flipping through the channels and i'll come upon a fitness infomercial. Usually, the guy doesnt even look like a normal human being. The poor guy looks like some scary overblown cartoon character.

Seems like its one or the other.

One group is going overboard and *worshipping* at the altar of "Physical fitness", and the other group is going overboard and *worshipping* at the altar of "Stuffing it in till I can barely walk".

Can anyone say.....MODERATION?

 

[webdog]

Who says? You? So you are now the authority; you get to define the line where something is "gluttonous"?

The very science you default to. Someone with a 40% bodyfat did not get there with a healthy lifestyle. Are there scientific exceptions? I guess it's plausible, but I've never seen it in the almost 20 years I have been involved in fitness.

? Perhaps you are confusing me with a teetotaler (I am not)...I have no idea why the jab in the last part of your sentence.

There was no jab whatsoever, don't be so defensive. I was saying you know what the Bible says on drunkenness, please read more carefully.

"Unworthy manner" was nothing to do with Gluttony. It had to do with Christians who had much, coming in and eating their food in front of those who had nothing. Nowhere is "gluttony" spoken of in these passages.

What do you know...you just admitted overindulgence, what gluttony IS!

It is an either/or proposition, since we were NEVER commanded to diet and exercise, or to stay a certain weight. There is nothing in the Bible about that. You are assuming, as does the majority of the U.S., that being skinny is better stewardship. However, who is going to last longer when the food supplies run out? (I say this tongue in cheek). "Better stewardship" is a matter of opinion. If scripture is silent, we need to be silent.

This answer could be found under strawman in the encyclopedia. Nobody ever said we are commanded to be a certain weight or exercise. We ARE commanded to be good stewards of ALL God has given us INCLUDING our bodies. I can't believe you are arguing against that!

Neither of which have anything to do with eating right and staying in shape. Those are about utilizing of spiritual gifts (hint: the failure to do so results in Hell)..

Another strawman. I NEVER said it was about eating right and staying in shape, you did. It IS about stewardship, gifts being included in that principle.

This has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Of course not All it talks about is stewardship :BangHead:

Uh, because the Bible does? You cannot take an English definition of a word, and impose it on a Hebrew text. The Hebrew word does not mean over eating. The New Testament does not condemn "gluttony"...only the Pharisees do. Even that word, BTW, does not mean simply eating a lot.

What are the greek words for glutton, gluttony found in the NT and meanings?

Nothing out of context with it. Presumably, according to you, a dish that is 3,000 calories would be sinful to eat, even though the Bible expressly allows it. People are making Christianity all about silly stuff: staying in shape, eating a certain diet, etc. It has NOTHING to do with any of that. It is about the Gospel.

The Scripture you posted has nothing to do with me arguing your position on this thread, what you tried to twist it into. It is about "works" of the law.

Christianity is about the Gospel?!? REally?!? (end sarcasm) It's also about obedience to His Word, which DOES teach us to be good stewards of what He has given us.

I realize that due to your work, you have a vested interest in this discussion, but you really need to think a little more about what you are saying. I mean, come on, you are better than that!

I believe the one arguing for over indulgence and to throw stewardship down the toilet is the one who needs to rethink their position.