The 10 commandments and being saved

[Chowmah]

Lets take a real good look at 2Cor.6

2 COR. 6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. [14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] AND WHAT CONCORD HATH CHRIST WITH BELIAL? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and YE SHALL BE MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS, saith the Lord Almighty.

Lets look at verse 17

This NEW COVENANT scripture tells us as believers we are not to touch the unclean thing. Now lets take a look at some old testament scriptures to verify that 2Cor.6 is talking about being separate from those who clucth their forks and knives to eat their bacon.

ISAIAH 52 [9] Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath REDEEMED Jerusalem. [10] The Lord hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the SALVATION of our God. [11] Depart ye, depart ye, GO YE OUT from thence, TOUCH NO UNCLEAN THING; GO YE OUT OF THE MIDST OF HER; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord. [12] For ye shall not go out with haste, nor go by flight: for the Lord will go before you; and the God of Israel will be your rereward.

Go ye out! Be ye separate! Touch no unclean thing! Redeemed. Salvation. Words you would find in the new testament concerning Jesus. And as is always the case, you will find whats being said in the new testament has already been said in the old or prophecied.

LEVITICUS 20 [22] Ye shall therefore keep all my statutes, and all my judgments, and do them: that the land, whither I bring you to dwell therein, spue you not out. [23] And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them. [24] But I have said unto you, Ye shall inherit their land, and I will give it unto you to possess it, a land that floweth with milk and honey: I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD, WHICH HAVE SEPARATED YOU from other people. [25] YE SHALL THEREFORE PUT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN CLEAN BEASTS AND UNCLEAN, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean. [26] And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the Lord am holy, and have severed you from other people, THAT YE SHOULD BE MINE.

Go ye out! Be ye separate! Separated you from other people!

DEUT. 14 [8] And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcase.

Everywhere theres lots of piggies....You can see them out for dinner

ISAIAH 66 [15] For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. [16] For by fire and by his sword will the Lord plead with all flesh: and the slain of the Lord shall be many. [17] They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, EATING SWINE'S FLESH, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the Lord.

The above scripture is speaking of the “Day of the Lord”. On that day, the fat lady sings. Because that day has not yet arrived, the people who do not want to believe these scriptures cannot claim its for ancient Israel. Theres one God, and His people one. There are not different rules for different people when the Day of the Lord arrives.

 

[Chowmah]

Lets take a real good look at 2Cor.6

2 COR. 6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. [14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] AND WHAT CONCORD HATH CHRIST WITH BELIAL? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and YE SHALL BE MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS, saith the Lord Almighty.

How about verse 11

Enlarge your heart

PSALM 119 [32] I WILL RUN THE WAY OF THY COMMANDMENTS, WHEN THOU SHALT ENLARGE MY HEART.[33] Teach me,LORD, the way of thy statutes; and I shall keep it unto the end.[34] Give me understanding,and I shall keep thy law; yea, I shall observe it with my whole heart.[35] Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight.

ISAIAH 5 [13] Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.[14] Therefore HELL HATH ENLARGED HERSELF, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. [24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD of hosts, and despised the word of THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.

Hell hath enlarged herself because they have cast away the law of the LORD. Despised the word of the HOLY ONE of Israel. Anyone know who this HOLY ONE of Israel is?

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God whichteacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

The HOLY ONE of Israel is also called thy REDEEMER. Yup. Jesus Christ himself.

 

[Chowmah]

Lets take a real good look at 2Cor.6

2 COR. 6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. [14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] AND WHAT CONCORD HATH CHRIST WITH BELIAL? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and YE SHALL BE MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS, saith the Lord Almighty.

Verse 14

light vs darkness

JOHN 3 [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [19] And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. [20] For EVERY ONE THAT DOETH EVIL HATETH THE LIGHT, NEITHER COMETH TO THE LIGHT, lest his deeds should be reproved. [21] But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Many will quote John 3[16-18]. But if you go on to read the next 3 verses in John (19-21) you will see that unbelievers have NO LIGHT IN THEM because they prefer darkness. Could it be there are some that say they believe and think they believe, but actually believe not due to their deeds?

ISAIAH 8 [20] TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: IF THEY SPEAK NOT ACCORDING TO THIS WORD, IT IS BECAUSE THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM.[21] And they shall pass through it, hardly bestead and hungry: and it shall come to pass, that when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse their king and their God, and look upward.[22] And they shall look unto the earth; and behold trouble and darkness, dimness of anguish; and they shall be driven to darkness.

Yup

 

[Chowmah]

Lets take a real good look at 2Cor.6

2 COR. 6 [11] O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged. [12] Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels. [13] Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged. [14] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? [15] AND WHAT CONCORD HATH CHRIST WITH BELIAL? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? [16] And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [17] Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, [18] And will be a Father unto you, and YE SHALL BE MY SONS AND DAUGHTERS, saith the Lord Almighty.

Seems we left out verse 14
The righteous and the unrighteous

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

The above new covenant scipture clearly states that the righteous will be scarcely saved. So who are those that are righteous?

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, YE KNOW THAT EVERY ONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM.

This new covenant scripture claims if you are born of God, you will be acting righteously.

DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. [173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

For ALL thy commandments are righteousness (even the keeping of the sabbath). Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and THY RIGHTEOUSNESS as the waves of the sea:

LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (no question as to who that is). The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh. The only WORD of God around when Jesus came was the old testament. In Isaiah OUR REDEEMER, the Holy One, Jesus Christ, tells us we are to keep the commandments if we are to be righteous.

The new testament says the same thing the old testament said. Is Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever? The “many” would have you to believe that that is not so.

1COR.15 [34] AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were BOTH RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD, WALKING IN ALL THE COMMANDMENTS and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Kinda easy to go from there and figure out those that are unrighteous

 

[Chowmah]

I {Chowmah} wrote

The scripture below contains one of my favorite promises.

ISAIAH 56 [6] Also the sons of THE STRANGER, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one THAT KEEPETH THE SABBATH from polluting it, and TAKETH HOLD OF MY COVENANT; [7] EVEN THEM WILL I BRING TO MY HOLY MOUNTAIN, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for ALL PEOPLE.

{Someones reply below}

Show me where this has happened. Give me an example. If you can't admit that it is a future event that has not taken place.

My {Chowmahs} answer

I admit its a future event. That goes without saying. When He "brings" us to His holy mountain it will be done in the twinkling of an eye. We will meet Him in the air and He will bring us to the 1000yr period of rest

 

[Chowmah]

ISAIAH 5 [13] Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.[14] Therefore HELL HATH ENLARGED HERSELF, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it. [24] Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: BECAUSE THEY HAVE CAST AWAY THE LAW OF THE LORD of hosts, and despised the word of THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL.

The Holy One

Luke 4:34
Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

What do you people who claim we are no longer under the 10 commandments think when you read scriptures like the one in Isaiah 5. Do youse think theres strenght in numbers? Help me understand

 

[BobRyan]

If you simply go by the scriptures (from the ole King James) and do not add or diminish from them, the scriptures point out that we must be attempting to keep the 10 commandments (including Gods sabbath day) in order to be saved to the kingdom. Does anyone see things differently?

In 1Cor 7:19 "But what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".

In Heb 8 - the New Covenant by which we are all saved involves having the Law of God "written on our heart and mind".

This means as Rom 2:15-16 points out "doing the things of the Law" and as James 2 points out "we will be judged by the law of Liberty" the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said in John 14 and in John 15 "If you Love Me keep My Commandments".

We Keep God's Commandments as the fruit that is shown by the "good tree" of Matt 7.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Darrell C]

Hello Chowmah,

Seems we left out verse 14
The righteous and the unrighteous

1 PETER 4 [17] For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?[18] And IF THE RIGHTEOUS SCARCELY BE SAVED, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

The above new covenant scipture clearly states that the righteous will be scarcely saved. So who are those that are righteous?

1JOHN2 [28] And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.[29] If ye know that he is righteous, YE KNOW THAT EVERY ONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS IS BORN OF HIM.

This new covenant scripture claims if you are born of God, you will be acting righteously.

DEUT.6 [25] And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments. OBSERVE TO DO! We will fall short.

PSALM 119 [172] My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL THY COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOUSNESS. [173] Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.[174] I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.

For ALL thy commandments are righteousness (even the keeping of the sabbath). Also mentioned here is salvation. Being saved.

ISAIAH 48 [17] THUS SAITH THE LORD, THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.[18] O THAT THOU HADST HEARKENED TO MY COMMANDMENTS! then had thy peace been as a river, and THY RIGHTEOUSNESS as the waves of the sea:

LORD-REDEEMER-HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL (no question as to who that is). The new testament says Jesus was the WORD of God that became flesh. The only WORD of God around when Jesus came was the old testament. In Isaiah OUR REDEEMER, the Holy One, Jesus Christ, tells us we are to keep the commandments if we are to be righteous.

The new testament says the same thing the old testament said. Is Jesus the same yesterday, today and forever? The “many” would have you to believe that that is not so.

1COR.15 [34] AWAKE TO RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND SIN NOT; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

1 JOHN 3 [7] Little children, LET NO MAN DECEIVE YOU: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.[8] HE THAT COMMITTETH SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

1 JOHN 3 [4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

LUKE 1 [6] And they were BOTH RIGHTEOUS BEFORE GOD, WALKING IN ALL THE COMMANDMENTS and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Kinda easy to go from there and figure out those that are unrighteous

As you read thropugh scripture, you will need to keep in mind that there are two very important relationships to observe:

1-Man's relationship with God.

2-Man's relationship with man.

The righteousness of man that you present as an equivalent to that which brings about eternal salvation has failed to make this disinguishing difference.

In the sight of man, these were deemed righteous, but, in the sight of God, their righteousness could not possibly be taken to meant that they either fulfilled the law that they were "perfect, as our Heavenly Father is perfect" (and remember, this is the standard-perfection in accomplishing the law), or, that they were not in need of what every man born after Adam is in need of, the salvation of God.

When we look at all of the men of history before the Cross, the sentence is made by God...there is none righteous, no, not one.

You have to find the scripture that verifies that "there is none righteous, except for Zecharia, and perhaps John the Baptist, and, well, Elijah did pretty good too..."


But God has revealed the righteousness by which we are saved in His Son Jesus Christ.

Why then would you teacjh, as the Judaizers, that man must do this, or that, in order for salvation to be given him?

When the answer is that, they could not keep the law.

Scripture teaches that when we are saved, we enter into Covenant relationship with God, and He has said that He "will put His Spirit within us, and cause us to walk in His statutes."

By this indwelling, we are able to establish the law.

There is a saying, "You catch 'em, and God will clean 'em."

This is how we learn to walk as He walked.

God bless.

 

[rbell]

Darrell, well said...but you're dealing with someone who simply doesn't believe in salvation by grace. Chowmah believes in a works-based salvation.

There is little you can do with someone who deliberately chooses to embrace an anti-biblical position, and insists on holding to it, even when shown the obvious error of his ways.

 

[Darrell C]

Hello Rbell,

For most this is probably true, but there is still a responsibility to try.

If you keep at it, their doctrine will break down.

It is similar to those who lie...eventually they are trapped by their own words.

Not that I am saying all who have been led astray to faith in something other than Christ is lying, I know many have been brought up in these beliefs and are genuine in their belief.

Still, I am surprised that this type of posting is allowed to go on, even in "Other Denominations."

Even in the differing denominations represented here, most will still affirm that salvation is not by works we have done, but by the grace of God.

Adherence to the law for salvation is clearly stated to be a fruitless endeavor in scripture, and is in fact addressed by several Apostles.

May God use us to make this clear.

God bless.

 

[Chowmah]

Dear DarrelC and rbell
How many times must i say to you guys that you can only be saved by the grace of God? Your works will not save you. Does D Koresh recieve this free gift. He was a believer. If not why not. After all its a free gift. Well guys lets keep at it. Will your doctrines break down or mine. You see i need not do a song and dance around any of the scriptures. You guys are on the dance floor more than F Astare and G Rogers

 

[Amy.G]

Does D Koresh recieve this free gift. He was a believer. If not why not. After all its a free gift.

David Koresh was most definitely NOT a believer. He only believed he was God. He was a false prophet that the bible says will be cursed. He received no gift, only the condemnation of his sin.

You have a messed up view of salvation.

 

[Fred's Wife]

David Koresh was most definitely NOT a believer. He only believed he was God. He was a false prophet that the bible says will be cursed. He received no gift, only the condemnation of his sin.

You have a messed up view of salvation.

After reading through this thread, I can certainly agree with you Amy G.

The Sabbath day NEVER was changed to Sunday...the Sabbath day has always been on the 7th day (which, according to our calendar, is Saturday).

The New Testament believer is not bound to keep the Sabbath day. Jesus Christ is our Sabbath/rest...not a day of the week. The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ (Hebrews 4).

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Exodus 31:12-18 says the sabbath was a special sign between God and Israel. The sabbath belongs to the nation Israel and not to any other people.

 

[Chowmah]

David Koresh was most definitely NOT a believer. He only believed he was God. He was a false prophet that the bible says will be cursed. He received no gift, only the condemnation of his sin.

You have a messed up view of salvation.

Hello Amy
I dont believe Koresh recieved any "free gift" from God either. Looking at a more recent situation, do you believe the preacher guy (congregation in the thousands) who is being accused of having many boys as very good friends had recieved any free gift (grace) from God

 

[Chowmah]

Do you believe that drunks, if they believe in Jesus will enter the Kingdom? Is there a work a drunkard must do to enter? Lets use some common sense

Gettin back to the preacher guy who likes boys. Youse claim there is no law. Therefore no sin for the believer according to scripture as "sin is the transgression of the law" (thats one thats actually written). According to youse the preacher guy is already saved. Now thats really a messed up view of salvation if there ever was one.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Do you believe that drunks, if they believe in Jesus will enter the Kingdom? Is there a word a drunkard must do to enter? Lets use some common sense

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

The unrighteous cannot enter the Kingdom of God...so obviously, the apostle Paul is talking about the unsaved (those who do NOT believe in Jesus Christ). Verse 11 states that this was the Corinthian believer's FORMER condition (lost/unsaved), but now they are saved (born again).

One cannot "believe in Jesus Christ" and still remain in the same "unrighteous" condition. A person who is born again by the Spirit of God is a "new creature in Christ Jesus" and "old things are passed away" and "all things are become new" (2 Cor. 5:17). One cannot serve God and mammon.

Matthew 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

 

[Chowmah]

One cannot "believe in Jesus Christ" and still remain in the same "unrighteous" condition.

So are you saying if one "believe in Christ" he must WORK to change his unrighteous condition? If he be a drunkard must he WORK at being sober. Is that what your saying?

 

[Chowmah]

Psalm 78:7
That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:

I wonder when i hear the pulpiteers say you need not keep the 10 commandments because you are not saved by your works....if they realize the 10 are not their works but the works of God

Romans 8:24
For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

 

[Fred's Wife]

So are you saying if one "believe in Christ" he must WORK to change his unrighteous condition? If he be a drunkard must he WORK at being sober. Is that what your saying?

Absolutely not! We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone! Jesus Christ does the changing as we yield to the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:16).

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How we live AFTER salvation is the RESULT of our new life in Christ...not the cause of it. We don't work to get saved and delivered from sin, Jesus paid for out salvation in full. Jesus Christ is our righteousness:

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

It is so typical for those who promote "works salvation" to twist scripture to their own destruction.

2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[Chowmah]

The New Testament believer is not bound to keep the Sabbath day. Jesus Christ is our Sabbath/rest...not a day of the week. The sabbath is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ (Hebrews 4).

OK. Theres Hebrews 4. Now show me where the Word says the sabbath day is a symbol of salvation rest in Christ

HEBREWS 4

[1] Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.[2] For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.[3] FOR WE WHICH HAVE BELIEVED DO ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Have faith in the WORD of God. Enter into Gods rest. His sabbath day.

[4] For he spake in a certain place of THE SEVENTH DAY on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works.[5] And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Its right there in the 1st book of the bible. Yup, the 7th day. That’s Gods sabbath day alright.

[6] Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:[7] Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

Some, to whom it was first preached had the spirit of unbelief and did not enter the sabbath rest (Ezek.20). They were destroyed. Do you hear his voice today? Right now. Don’t harden your heart as they did.

[8] For IF JESUS HAD GIVEN THEM REST, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.[9] THERE REMAINETH THEREFORE A REST to the people of God.

You’ve heard the many say “Jesus is my rest”. Well…verse 8 contradicts that? I guess that’s why some translations have taken out the name of Jesus there and stuck in the name of Joshua. Anyways the rest (sabbath) remains. Ive heard “the many” say verse 9 is speaking of the 1000 yr period of rest. That rest has not yet arrived, its in the future so how could it remain if it isnt yet here? Oh well.

[10] For HE THAT IS ENTERED INTO HIS REST, he also hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
[11] Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Of course the above verses are speaking of the sabbath. Enter into the rest as God also did. Verse 4 says God entered into rest on the seventh day. The sabbath. Verse 11 says we are to enter into that very same rest.

Ive seen pages and pages written about above scriptures trying to explain that it doesnt really mean what it says. Just believe what it says and enter into the rest GOD created for us. The rest that sanctifys us and sets believers apart from those with the spirit of unbelief, like those who were destroyed in the wilderness (Ezek.20). Don’t harden your heart.