The 10 commandments and being saved

[Chowmah]

OK, so now Jesus rose from the dead on Saturday?

Wow. That's one tortured hermeneutic right there.

I guess the Greek phrase "first day of the week," when properly translated, means, "Oh, I really meant Saturday."

That is correct (if i might i might borrow the words of Ben Bailey). Just read the scriptures. This is much more believable than Fri afternoon till sunday mornin equaling 3 days AND 3 nights. Alls ya gotta do is simple math. And like i said each time you see "first day of the week" Jesus had already risen. Nowhere will you see that anyone claim Jesus rose on the 1st day of the week. Only that He had risen

 

[Chowmah]

OK, so now Jesus rose from the dead on Saturday?

Wow. That's one tortured hermeneutic right there.

I guess the Greek phrase "first day of the week," when properly translated, means, "Oh, I really meant Saturday."

The Word aint real happy with your ishtar sunrise services

EZEK.8 [13] He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.[14] Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat WOMEN WEEPING FOR TAMMUZ.[15] Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and THOU SHALT SEE GREATER ABOMINATIONS than these.[16] And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and THEIR FACES TOWARD THE EAST; AND THEY WORSHIPPED THE SUN TOWARD THE EAST.

Tammuz was killed by a wild boar. Semiramus is said to have WEPT for Tammuz 4o days, after which, he would be resurrected. This was during the springtime, when crops were planted. Hence, the eastern sunrise service honoring the resurrection, following the 40 days of "weeping for Tammuz", better known as LENT. Rbell, look up tammuz in your encyclopedia. Where ya find him youll find ishtar. Pronounced easter.

 

[Chowmah]

Aint real happy with your christmas goins on either

JER.10 [3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

 

[Chowmah]

Getting back to the sabbath, we Christians and those before us should have seen this coming. There were plenty of warnings all through the new testament

1 PETER 5 [8] Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a ROARING LION, walketh about, SEEKING WHOM HE MAY DEVOUR:

Watch out for these roaring lions!

MATT.7 [14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.[15] Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are RAVENING WOLVES.

Beware of these false prophets. They are RAVENING WOLVES. Also implied here is that “the many” will follow these false prophets and but a few will take the way of life.

ACTS 20 [29] For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous WOLVES ENTER IN among you, not sparing the flock.[30] Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, TO DRAW AWAY DISCIPLES after them.

The GRIEVOUS WOLVES were there from the beginning

EPH.4 [17] This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth WALK NOT AS OTHER GENTILES walk, in the VANITY of their mind,[18] Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:[19] Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all UNCLEANNESS with GREEDINESS.

Well, I found all these warnings from the new testament in one scripture. The Day of the Lord scriptures are so great. Since “that day” has not yet arrived no one can claim that the scripture is for ancient Israel and does not apply to christians. Day of the Lord scriptures do apply to christians (those who believe that Jesus came) and these scriptures will come to pass. To see what these ROARING LIONS and RAVENOUS WOLVES have done, simply read and believe the Word.

EZEK.22 [23] And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,[24] Son of man, say unto her, Thou art the land that is not cleansed, nor rained upon in the day of indignation.[25] There is A CONSPIRACY OF HER PROPHETS in the midst thereof, like a ROARING LION ravening the prey; THEY HAVE DEVOURED SOULS; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.[26] HER PRIESTS HAVE VIOLATED MY LAW, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the UNCLEAN AND THE CLEAN, and HAVE HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS, and I am profaned among them.[27] Her princes in the midst thereof are like WOLVES RAVENING THE PREY, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get DISHONEST GAIN.[28] And her prophets have daubed them with untempered morter, SEEING VANITY, and divining lies unto them, saying, Thus saith the Lord GOD, when the LORD hath not spoken

A conspiracy of the prophets. HID THEIR EYES FROM MY SABBATHS! They meant to do it and they sure did pull it off despite the warnings

Hes a tricky little devil

 

[rbell]

The Word aint real happy with your ishtar sunrise services

Perhaps you should take that up with God. Since this past Easter, four people at our church accepted Christ, I'm sure God would appreciate your protest of His wonderful saving work on that special day.

I'm sure if He finds out about your disapproval, He will refrain from doing it again.

And just because you posted a more involved explanation, doesn't mean your hermeneutic on this issue is any less tortured.

Look up in your Encyclopedia what the "first day of the week" is.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Aint real happy with your christmas goins on either

JER.10 [3] For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.[4] They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.[5] They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Yes, because Jesus didn't really exist right. We are all actually following Mythras. Right? I think you've spent too much time reviewing Zeitgeist.

 

[Chowmah]

I think you've spent too much time reviewing Zeitgeist.

Reviewing Zeitgeist? I have never reviewed Zeitgeist nor can i even pronounce his name. Who is he

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Reviewing Zeitgeist? I have not never reviewed Zeitgeist nor can i even pronounce his name. Who is he

Its a video that was produced to discredit christianity. You can probably get it at youtube. It Parallels ancient mystery religions, and astrology with christianity.

 

[Chowmah]

And just because you posted a more involved explanation, doesn't mean your hermeneutic on this issue is any less tortured.

OK. I dont know what a hermeneutic is. You think i have one of these and i torture it. So call the ASPCA.

JOHN 20 [1] The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when IT WAS YET DARK, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Ya know how you guys say that the 3 days and 3 nights are really not 3 days and 3 nights but parts of 3 days. Youve known all along that you cannot find a portion of a third night. In believing the above scripture you must now believe you cannot find a portion of a third day. When Mary Magdalene came to the place Jesus was buried it was still dark and He had already risen.

ACTS 12 [4] And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

In Acts 12 you will find the word easter.

pascha, pas’-khah;of Chaldee origin [compare Hebrew 6453 (pecach)]; the Passover (the meal, the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it) :- Easter, Passover.

Every other place that you will find this word in the bible it was translated Passover. Someone took libertys with the written word and according to the Word their gonna get the what for.

 

[Chowmah]

Its a video that was produced to discredit christianity. You can probably get it at youtube. It Parallels ancient mystery religions, and astrology with christianity.

Thanks Thinkingstuff. Does this guy actually say Christ never existed. Dont believe ill go see what he says. Ive only read 2 books in my whole 59 yrs of existance. The Babe Ruth story and the bible. Still workin on the ladder

 

[Darrell C]

Hello Chowmah,

Hey Darrell C
Whats more important is not what i suppose but what the Word says

Agreed.

I will begin our discussion, (assuming that you actually wish to discuss this, rather than cluster proof-texts together without examining contextual meaning) with 1 John 5.

1 JOHN 5 [1] Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.[2] By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.[3] For THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, THAT WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS: AND HIS COMMANDMENTS ARE NOT GRIEVOUS.[4] For WHATSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD OVERCOMETH THE WORLD: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.[5] Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

How can a clear statement like this...be so hard to grasp?


1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.


Notice the phrase "Him that begat."

Who is that? What did He beget?

If you notice, John speak of those born of God. Did we assist God in this birth, which is obviously the new birth referred to by Jesus, as well as written of by Paul and Peter?

Do you believe that when God, in His word, tells us we are "new creations," that that is what we are?

Again...Who brings this about? But...I know you will agree that it is God.

The question is, do you believe that a new creation, one who is born of God...can revert to their previous state?

You must.

Now, consider what it is that John says these who are born of God believe...



1 John 5
1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God:


It says what it says...They that believe that Jesus is the Christ are born of God.

Now, there are also those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, yet, as the scriptures say, they have done despite unto the Spirit of Grace, and rejected Him.

So our first observation will be easy to recognize...those whom John speaks of believe that Jesus is the Christ.






2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.


You are quick to point out the latter part of this verse, concerning the keeping of commandments, but might I suggest to you, you have in one post broken this very commandment.

Have you shown love to me by stating that I am dancing around, rejecting the ten commandments?

Is it possible that I am not your brother? Could be. And due to the extreme difference to our doctrine, that may very well be the case.

That would leave you guiltless of not loving one who is not your brother.

But, is not, "love your enemies" a commandment of the Lord?

Or, is it a matter of you not believing that Jesus is God?

As I have not had opportunity to speak much with you, other than to see you teach commandment keeping for salvation, rather than faith in Jesus, I will not assume, but rather, ask that you let me know.



3For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


And here we are, at the heart of your doctrine, the proof text of proof-texts that shows that we are saved, or, remain saved, by the keeping of the commandments.

But what are His commandments?

Would it be the law? But could it be said that the law is not grievous?


Here is another passage that should show there is difficulty with the doctrine you teach:



Acts 15


5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.


6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.



7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;



9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.


10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


The doctrine of commandment keepers was rejected by the Church back then, as it is now.

As I have said before, you put the cart before the horse...thinking that the keeping of God's law brings or retains (please clarify your position) salvation.

You say I reject the ten commandments?

Would you quote me on that?

But this is what I believe: apart from being born of God, and indwelt by the Holy Spirit...man cannot keep the law of God, which, by the way, began before the "first covenant."



4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


You would rewrite the scripture with your doctrine, and it would go like this:


For whatsoever is born of God must overcome the world, and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even as we keep the commandments.


That is what you are teaching, and a simple comparison evidences the difference between what John has written, and how you interpret it.


Lets see he that overcomes the world:


5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

How does one believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God?

By keeping the commandments?

No, that is the evidence that one is born of God.

How do we get faith, Chowmah? How do we believe to the saving of the soul?

Well, you would have me to believe that it is by keeping the commandments.

A lot of people who are against Gods law

We establish the law, because of the new nature we are provided by God.

And that is done through the grace of God, without our help.

will try to tell you that you cant mix faith and the 10 commandments. Apples and oranges they say. The scriptures seem to have no problem in doing so. Everywhere you look...old or new testament. Makes no matter

What is disputed in your doctrine is that the ten commandments will save.

If that were true, Christ need not have died.

By the law shall no flesh be justified.

REV.14 [12] Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

What is first?

The faith of/in Jesus?

Or the keeping of the commandments?

I know your answer.

If you would like to discuss this, fine, I would love that.

But, if you merely wish to teach your doctrine and call those who oppose it false teachers, well, that is your choice.

If you do, try not to cram so many proof-texts into one post...just give a particular passage, and lets examine it.

God bless.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Thanks Thinkingstuff. Does this guy actually say Christ never existed. Dont believe ill go see what he says. Ive only read 2 books in my whole 59 yrs of existance. The Babe Ruth story and the bible. Still workin on the ladder

Thats ok too.

 

[Chowmah]

Its a video that was produced to discredit christianity. You can probably get it at youtube. It Parallels ancient mystery religions, and astrology with christianity.

I dont really need any mans opinion on the fact that christianity is not being practiced as it should be. Jesus himself tells us that in His Word

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Alls ive done is search the Word to try and find out what decieving practices are being done by those who call themselves christians. For the most part its not the fault of the people. After all, they are decieved according to Jesus. I believe all people who follow the testimony of Jesus will attain eternal life. But they will not enter the kingdom for the 1000yr period of rest. My beliefs are founded on scriptures alone.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I dont really need any mans opinion on the fact that christianity is not being practiced as it should be. Jesus himself tells us that in His Word

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Alls ive done is search the Word to try and find out what decieving practices are being done by those who call themselves christians. For the most part its not the fault of the people. After all, they are decieved according to Jesus. I believe all people who follow the testimony of Jesus will attain eternal life. But they will not enter the kingdom for the 1000yr period of rest. My beliefs are founded on scriptures alone.

A lot of beliefs can be attributed to scripture alone. So what authority do you have to interpret scripture properly? The HOLY SPIRIT? How do you know your interpretation is guided by the Holy Spirit? Is it your ability to reason? Then how is your ability any better than anyone elses? and so it goes.

 

[Chowmah]

The question is, do you believe that a new creation, one who is born of God...can revert to their previous state?

Can i ask you a question? What is the "falling away"?

 

[Chowmah]

Have you shown love to me by stating that I am dancing around, rejecting the ten commandments?

Yes Darrel C

I love ya ole boy

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If i didnt love ya i wouldnt care one bit if you were called the least by those in the Kingdom

 

[Chowmah]

Here is another passage that should show there is difficulty with the doctrine you teach:

Acts 15

5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.


7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.


8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?



11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.


The doctrine of commandment keepers was rejected by the Church back then, as it is now.

Just read whats written. Its talking of the law of Moses concerning being circumcised. Read verse 5. Nothing to do with the 10 commandments.Then go read verse 24. Says the same thing

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Being circumcised is not one of Gods 10 commandments

And with all that said about circumcision. What the truth about us keeping Gods 10 commandments?

1 Cor. 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

 

[Chowmah]

How do we get faith, Chowmah?

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, that we might be justified by faith.

According to scripture we get faith by 1st going to the schoolmaster. The 10 commandments and our faith would afterwards be revealed

 

[Chowmah]

What is disputed in your doctrine is that the ten commandments will save.

There ya go again Darrel C. I know that you are saved only by the grace of God. Our differences come as to whom this free gift is given. I say its given only to those who obey the "voice" of God. You seem to say its handed out to anyone who comes along. Look at the passage of the schoolmaster and faith

Ephes. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Then you will see to whom this free gift is given

 

[Chowmah]

If you would like to discuss this, fine, I would love that.

But, if you merely wish to teach your doctrine and call those who oppose it false teachers, well, that is your choice.

If you do, try not to cram so many proof-texts into one post...just give a particular passage, and lets examine it.

God bless.

You bring a smile to my face. Thank you. You tell me to keep my proof-texts (scriptures) short while writing the longest post of the thread. But ill do as you ask. Ill try anyways.