The 10 commandments and being saved

[Tater77]

Mark 12:28-31 (New American Standard Bible)

28(A)One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and (B)recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, "What commandment is the foremost of all?"

29Jesus answered, "The foremost is, '(C)HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD;

30(D)AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.'

31"The second is this, '(E)YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.' There is no other commandment greater than these."​

Love God and commandments 1-3 are no problem, love your neighbor and the rest fall into place. Pretty simple really. Follow this simple way of thinking and the 10 Commandments take no effort at all.

 

[Darrell C]

Hi guys,

Just a quick thought for those who might be interested.

One of the passages used to promote the keeping of the commandments for eternal life is here:


Matthew 19:16-22 (King James Version)


16And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?


17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.


18He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,


19Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.


20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?


21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.


22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.




Again, just a thought, food for thought.

The question asked is, "What must I do to that I may have eternal life?"

And the Lord says point-blank...keep the commandments.

Settled, right?

Not exactly. The Lord loved this man, which can be seen from another account, and after this man tells Jesus that he has kept the list of commandments that is given, what does the Lord say?:


Mark 10:21 (King James Version)

21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.



He had kept the commandments, at least in part (the ones that held the most significance in his mind), but he did not have eternal life.

Was the selling of his goods, the giving of the proceeds to the poor part of his obtaining eternal life?

No, I believe that that afforded him reward in heaven, as we all know that we will be rewarded for the works we do, whether good or bad, and that as Paul taught, the reward earned (or lost) for our works do not affect our salvation.

No, I suggest to you that it was following Jesus that would bring eternal life, and doesn't that line up with the clear teaching of the New Testament?


Food for thought.

God bless.

 

[moral necessity]

If you simply go by the scriptures (from the ole King James) and do not add or diminish from them, the scriptures point out that we must be attempting to keep the 10 commandments (including Gods sabbath day) in order to be saved to the kingdom. Does anyone see things differently?

"If righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." - Gal.2:21

"...and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ." - Phil.3:9

All who try to stand on the Law before God will lose. The only option is to have a substitute stand for you, with his record of obedience counting in your place.

Blessings and prayers!

 

[Chowmah]

Paul makes it clear that we are not to judge another because we have been freed from the Law.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

The scripture above is the scripture used by all the sunday go to meetin pulpiteers to distance themselves from Gods sabbath day. Its also their biggy to eat their piggy. There are many places in your bible which discuss the meat and the drink offerings of the holy days, new moons and the sabbath days which explain what Col.2 is speaking about but they are ignored by the “many”.

EZEKIEL 45 [17] And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and MEAT offerings, and DRINK offerings, in the FEASTS, and in the NEW MOONS, and in the SABBATHS, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.

Heres one. Same exact order as Col.2{16}, meat, drink, holy days (feast days), new moons, sabbaths. What are the odds these 2 scriptures are not speaking about the same thing? A trillion to one? Do you believe that Ezek.45 is telling the old testament folks they no longer need keep Gods sabbath day or that its alright to go out and eat their piggys? Aint no way. Its simply speaking of the meat and drink offerings which were written in the law contained within the ordinances which were to take place on Gods holy days, new moons and His sabbath days. The many claim that the meat and drink spoken of in Col.2 are the unclean foods such as the oinker. If that were so please show me where any drink was said to be unclean. If there is an unclean drink ive yet to find it in the scriptures.

HEBREWS 13 [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be ESTABLISHED WITH GRACE; NOT WITH MEATS, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. [10] We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle. [11] For THE BODIES OF THOSE BEASTS, WHOSE BLOOD is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp. [12] WHEREFORE JESUS ALSO, THAT HE MIGHT SANCTIFY THE PEOPLE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD, suffered without the gate.

So why should we judge no man in meat or drink in respect to holy days, new moons and sabbath days? Because Jesus fulfilled these offerings that were written in the law of commandments contained in the ordinances. Its the meat and drink offerings that are no more to be observed.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

When we let scripture interpret scripture its very clear what Col.2 is speaking about. The meat and drink offerings of those days are no longer to be kept.

 

[Chowmah]

COL.2 [14] Blotting out THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus blotted out “only” the handwriting of the ordinances.

2 KINGS 17 [36] But the LORD, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt with great power and a stretched out arm, him shall ye fear, and him shall ye worship, and to him shall ye do sacrifice.[37] And the statutes, AND the ordinances, AND the law, AND the commandment, which he wrote for you, ye shall observe to do for evermore; and ye shall not fear other gods.

The “many” have come in the name of Christ and would have you to believe the law, the ordinances and the commandments are all lumped together as one. They do this so they can point out a scripture which talking about the law of circumcision (which was nailed to the cross) and then apply that scripture to the ten commandments. But as you can see in above scripture, the ordinances, the law, and the commandments are all separate. And it was not the law nor the ten commandments that Jesus nailed to the cross. It was the law contained in the ordinances.

EXODUS 12 [11] And thus shall ye eat it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and ye shall eat it in haste: it is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [12] For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord. [13] And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt. [14] And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the Lord throughout your generations; ye shall keep it A FEAST BY AN ORDINANCE FOR EVER.

Theres one of the feast days (holy days) which are to be kept by ordinance. The Lords passover

NUMBERS 28 [16] And in the fourteenth day of the first month is THE PASSOVER OF THE LORD. [17] And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. [18] In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein: [19] But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto the Lord; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish: [20] And their MEAT OFFERING shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram; [21] A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs: [22] And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you. [23] Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering. [24] After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his DRINK OFFERING.

Here we see the Lords passover and the meat and drink offering which are in the handwriting of that ordinance

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

JOHN 6 [53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. [54] Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. [55] For MY FLESH IS MEAT INDEED, and MY BLOOD IS DRINK INDEED.

 

[Chowmah]

NUMBERS 28 [9] And on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a MEAT OFFERING, mingled with oil, and the DRINK OFFERING thereof: [10] This is the burnt offering of EVERY SABBATH, beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering.

Theres the meat and drink offerings for the sabbath days that Col.2 [16] was speaking of.

EZEKIEL 46 [6] And in the day of the NEW MOON it shall be a young bullock without blemish, and six lambs, and a ram: they shall be without blemish. [7] And he shall prepare a MEAT OFFERING, an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and for the lambs according as his hand shall attain unto, and an hin of oil to an ephah.

The meat offering for the new moon that was spoken of in Col.2 [16].

LEVITICUS 23 [4] These are THE FEASTS OF THE LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. [5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is THE LORD'S PASSOVER. [6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread…… [13] And the MEAT OFFERING thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the Lord for a sweet savour: and the DRINK OFFERING thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin.

In all the feast days (holy days) meat and drink offerings were written into the laws of commandments contained in the ordinances. The above scripture points out the holy day of passover when Jesus was crucified.

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Once again, the 1st covenant had ordinances which stood only in meat and drinks

EPH.2 [15] HAVING ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS CONTAINED IN ORDINANCES; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;[16] And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

COL. 2 [13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

HEBREWS 10 [7] Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. [8] Above when he said, SACRIFICE AND OFFERING AND BURNT OFFERINGS AND OFFERING FOR SIN THOU WOULDEST NOT, NEITHER HADST PLEASURE THEREIN; WHICH ARE OFFERED BY THE LAW; [9] Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. HE TAKETH AWAY THE FIRST, THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. [10] By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: [12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
ISAIAH 24 [5] The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, CHANGED THE ORDINANCE, broken the everlasting covenant.[6] Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

But in this “Day of the Lord” scripture it seems the many will go on believing what they’ve been taught by their sunday mourning pulpiteers. They will continue to believe the commandments mentioned in Eph.2 are the 10 commandments and not the law of commandments contained in the ordinances

 

[Chowmah]

COL.2 [14] BLOTTING OUT THE HANDWRITING OF ORDINANCES that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;[15] And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.[16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:[17] WHICH ARE A SHADOW OF THINGS TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

The handwriting of ordinances has been blotted out. They were the shadow of things to come. What do the “many” claim the shadow was? They say the shadow was the new moons, feast days and Gods sabbath day. What do the scriptures say?

HEBREWS 9 [1] Then verily THE FIRST COVENANT HAD ALSRDINANCES of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. [9] Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;[10] WHICH STOOD ONLY IN MEATS AND DRINKS, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.[12] NEITHER BY THE BLOOD OF GOATS AND CALVES, BUT BY HIS OWN BLOOD he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Theres the shadow of Col.2 that was blotted out. The meat and drink offerings found in verse 10. The handwriting of ordinances. It was not Gods sabbath day as the “many” claim.

HEBREWS 10 [1] For THE LAW HAVING A SHADOW of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THOSE SACRIFICES WHICH THEY OFFERED YEAR BY YEAR continually make the comers thereunto perfect.[2] For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.[3] But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.[4] For IT IS NOT POSSIBLE THAT THE BLOOD OF BULLS AND OF GOATS SHOULD TAKE AWAY SINS.

Hebrews 10 says it all. The shadow of the law was the offerings (the meat and drink offerings). That only makes sense.

NUMBERS 19 [2] This is the ORDINANCE OF THE LAW which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:

Before Christ the red heifers lived their lives in fear, thinking they might be next offering. They need not worry no more.

JOHN 6 [55] For my flesh is MEAT indeed, and my blood is DRINK indeed.

 

[Chowmah]

COL. 2 [16] Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY, or of the NEW MOON, or of the SABBATH DAYS:

As I said before, Col.2{16} is used by all sunday mornin denominations so as to rid themselves of Gods sabbath day and His holy days. Its also used to go against Gods laws concerning eating unclean things such as the portly porker. Can their doctrines be found in the scriptures by looking at the followers of RISEN Christ?

ACTS 18 [20] When they desired him to tarry longer time with them, he consented not; [21] But bade them farewell, saying, I MUST BY ALL MEANS KEEP THIS FEAST THAT COMETH IN JERUSALEM: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.

Not here. Here we find Paul keeping one of the feast days in Jersalem long after Christ had been crucified

1 COR. 5 [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] THEREFORE LET US KEEP THE FEAST, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This also is after Christ had risen. They were still keeping the Feast of unleavened bread but not as they did before. Before Christ there was to be no leven in the house. After Christ was crucified the laws contained in the ordinances were nailed to the cross. So have yourself a peanut butter and jelly.

ACTS 17 [2] AND PAUL, AS HIS MANNER WAS, went in unto them, and three SABBATH DAYS reasoned with them out of the scriptures,[3] Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

Not here either. Paul was still keeping the sabbath

ACTS 10 [11] And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth: [12] Wherein were all manner of fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air. [13] And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. [14] BUT PETER SAID, NOT SO, LORD; FOR I HAVE NEVER EATEN ANY THING THAT IS COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Once again, not here either. Peter refused to eat the unclean thing even after the risen Christ.

ACTS 10 [26] But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man. [27] And as he talked with him, he went in, and found many that were come together. [28] And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but GOD HATH SHEWED ME THAT I SHOULD NOT CALL ANY MAN COMMON OR UNCLEAN.

Just wanted to post this before anyone made the claim that God was now saying its OK to eat the unclean thing

JOEL 1 [13] Gird yourselves, and lament, ye priests: howl, ye ministers of the altar: come, lie all night in sackcloth, ye ministers of my God: for THE MEAT OFFERING AND THE DRINK OFFERING IS WITHHOLDEN FROM THE HOUSE OF YOUR GOD. [14] Sanctify ye a fast, call a solemn assembly, gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the Lord your God, and cry unto the Lord, [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.

Don’t look good for some

 

[Chowmah]

"If righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly." - Gal.2:21

"...and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ." - Phil.3:9

All who try to stand on the Law before God will lose. The only option is to have a substitute stand for you, with his record of obedience counting in your place.

Blessings and prayers!

Righteousness does not come by the law. Only by the grace of God are we saved.

Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Even after attempting to keep the law you will not attain righteouness through the law but only through the blood of Christ

Matthew 3:13-15
Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. [14] But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? [15] And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Many will say because Jesus fulfilled the law, the law is now done away with. There is no law. Those that follow that train of thought must also believe {the above scripture} that righteousness has now also been done away with.

 

[Chowmah]

Because He knows what is in the hearts of men.

What is the wide gate, the broad way?

Not sure of the totallity of the wide gate

REV. 22 [14] Blessed are THEY THAT DO HIS COMMANDMENTS, that they may have right to the tree of life, and MAY ENTER IN THROUGH THE GATES INTO THE CITY.

But its the above gate im stiving to enter

Tryin to keep it short

 

[Chowmah]

A lot of beliefs can be attributed to scripture alone. So what authority do you have to interpret scripture properly? The HOLY SPIRIT?

Actually i let the scriptures interpret the scriptures. They were written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Alls i gotta do is find them and then believe them. No song and dance

 

[Chowmah]

Paul is speaking of faith before the Messiah came, which looked forward, and the faith that is now revealed.

I notice you highlighted "before faith came," could you tell me what, other than what Paul has previously said in this passage, what he is talking about?

I would suggest to you that he is speaking about faith in Christ.

Which they did not have specifically before He came.

God bless.

1 Cor. 10:1-4
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [2] And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; [3] And did all eat the same spiritual meat; [4] And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 

[Dr. Walter]

Justified without the Law or your works

The issue is dealt with by Paul in a very technical manner in Romans 3:24-5:2 but in the issue of the Law of Moses as opposed to works is specifically dealth with in Romans 3:27-28.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

There are several particulars that must be noted in this very technical and efficient treatise by Paul.


1. There is a question - "Where is boasting then?

This question has to do with the immediate preceding verses (vv. 23-26) where the problem and the provision for that problem is provided by God through the Person and work of Jesus Christ. The problem is found in verse 23. The provision is found in verses 24-26. In this provision there is absolutely nothing provided by the sinner to resolve the problem. Indeed the text begins with "freely by grace." The only part that involves the sinner in this provision is their faith and the only part their faith plays in this provision is in its OBJECT:

"through faith IN his blood,"
"believeth IN Jesus."

Hence, their faith plays no part, provides no provision but simply acts as a receiver of that provision by placing their faith IN the provision. In direct contrast "faithfulness" is what you do for God but justifying faith is receiving what God did for you through the shed "blood" and Person of "Jesus."

Therefore, the question that directly follows is "Where is boasting then?"


2. Paul introduces the use of the term "law" in verse 27 that has nothing to do with the Law of Moses or any other statutary human or divine law.

He introduces it in the sense of a PRINCIPLE or RULE in regard to his further developed question. The question is "where is boasting then?" and then the question is further developed to ask what "Law" or PRINCIPLE would provide boasting and what "Law" or PRINCIPLE would exclude boasting.

By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Paul does not use the plural "Laws" but the singular "law" asking by what PRINCIPLE or RULE would include or exclude boasting.


3. There is now provided the reader two contrasting PRINCIPLES to consider and to answer that question.

Those contrasting options are characterized by two words placed in opposition to each other:

1. The principle of WORKS
2. The principle of FAITH

These words characterize two opposing PRINCIPLES for justification. Hence, the question is which PRINCIPLE of justification excludes or includes boasting. Does the PRINCIPLE of justification by FAITH include or exclude boasting or does the PRINCIPLE of justification by WORKS include or exclude boasting?

Which PRINCIPLE excludes boasting (1) Works; (2) Faith


4. Paul does not leave this question without an answer but provides the answer:

of works? Nay: but by the law of faith

Hence, Paul addresses the issue by defining the underlying PRINCIPLE that characterizes ALL POSSIBLE WAYS of justification. He reduces all possible ways down to fit under one of two contrasting PRINCIPLES. You are either justified by the PRINCIPLE of works or you are justified by the PRINCIPLE of Faith and they are in placed in opposition to each other and therefore ruling out an syngerism of the two.


5. Hence, you are either justified by the principle of FAITH ALONE or you are justified by the principle of WORKS ALONE:

The principle of FAITH ALONE not only denies one can be justified by the law of Moses but any law that operates by the principle of works.

Romans 3:24-26 is justification "freely by grace" "through faith in his blood" believing "in Jesus" and therefore it is justification by the PRINCIPLE of faith without works:

Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


6. Therefore, by this PRINCIPLE of justification the ground is made level for both Jews and Gentiles under One God because the law of Moses is by PRINCIPLE justification by works:

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Note the repitition of "faith" in verse 30 "by faith" and "through faith" for both Jews and Gentiles.



7. Justification by faith without works does not invalidate the Law of God whether written upon stones (Rom. 2:12-13) or upon the conscience of man (Rom. 2:14-15) but is the ONLY WAY TO validate it

Paul is now taking the reader back to Romans 3:26 and the words:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Jesus Christ in his own person satisfied (the propiation) the full demands of God. He satisfied the wrath of God by "his blood" (v. 25) and He satisfied fully the righteousness of God (v. 26). Therefore, that provision by Christ enabled God to be "Just" in imputing Christ's propitiation to the believer by faith and thus "the justifier of him" without violating His own righteous standard as Christ acted in behalf of the believing sinner and the believer received it "freely by grace."


8. Now, the same question "where is boasting then" is applied to Abraham:

1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

The word "glory" represents the very exact same word translated "boasting" in Romans 3:27. Paul proceeds in a very systematic way to prove that Abraham was justified "WITHOUT WORKS" of any kind coming from His person but was justified by the works coming from the Person of Christ through IMPUTATION.

1. Justified by faith without works by grace (imputation by faith) - vv. 3-5
2. Remision of sins without divine ordinances - vv. 6-12
3. Justified by the principle of faith not by the principle of law - vv. 13-15
4. Justified by faith without any kind of personal performance - vv. 16-21
5. Justified by faith as a completed action at the point of faith in the gospel - 4:22-5:2

CONCLUSION: Any doctrine of justification that is characterized by the principle of "works" is ANOTHER GOSPEL as the doctrine of justification by faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the essence of the gospel (Gal. 1:8-9).

 

[Dr. Walter]

Jn. 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

Some have argued on this forum that it was possible for the Jews to keep the Law in order to obtain eternal life. I remember three persons on this forum argued that very point when I used the following passages where Jesus told Jews:

Lk. 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Mt. 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I argued that Jesus simply set forth the standard of the Law but it was possible for sinners to meet that standard. Indeed, that is precisely why Jesus set forth the standard because trying to keep it reveals the knowledge of sin.

John 7:19 proves that my interpretation was correct. Jesus did not say "SOME" you don't keep the Law, but rather "NONE" of them keep the Law:

Jn. 7:19 Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

The same "you" that Moses gave the Law unto (Israel; Jews) is the same "you" that "NONE" keep.

 

[Chowmah]

CONCLUSION: Any doctrine of justification that is characterized by the principle of "works" is ANOTHER GOSPEL as the doctrine of justification by faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ is the essence of the gospel (Gal. 1:8-9).

Its so good to see ya back Dr. As to your conclusion, i agree. You could never be justified by the works of the law. We all have come up short in that area. We all are but filthy rags. Only by the grace of God are we justified

 

[Chowmah]

The only thing which makes sense to me is your insistence that the Law saves and that you are still under the law/schoolmaster. If one is born again....

The law never saved anyone. Only the grace of God can do that. As for being "born again" scripture points out that you might have jumped the gun a bit

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the spirit is spirit.

Jesus said before entering the kingdom we must be born again.

1PETER1
[4] TO AN INHERITANCE INCORRUPTIBLE, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
[5] Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation READY TO BE REVEALED IN THE LAST TIME.
[9] Receiving the END OF YOUR FAITH, even the salvation of your souls.
[10] Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
[13] Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end FOR THE GRACE THAT IS TO BE BROUGHT UNTO YOU AT THE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST;
[23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
[24] For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away.

As a whole the verses above in 1Peter1 point to Christs return, at which time you are born again. Verse {23} is the key as to when we are born again. Not of corruptible seed.

1PETER1 [23] BEING BORN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED, BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1COR.15
[42] So also is the resurrection of the dead. IT IS SOWN IN CORRUPTION; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:
[43] It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
[44] It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1COR.15
[49] And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.
[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] FOR THIS CORRUPTIBLE MUST PUT ON INCORRUPTION, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Its really rather simple. Jesus told Nick you must be born again to enter the kingdom. That’s exactly what will happen when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye. We are “changed” because verse{50} tells us flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom. Its pretty clear the being born again experience will happen at the coming of Christ when we are changed in the twinkling of an eye and we are raised with our spiritual body.

1 JOHN 3 [2] Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Chowmah]

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, HOW CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me![14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again?

2 PETER 3 [9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Job gives the timing of this event. “The heavens be more” on the Day of the Lord

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[6] THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; AND THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1 COR. 15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.

1COR.15{50} takes place on the Day of the Lord according to Job and also 1Thes.4. When we are changed in the twinkling of an eye and brought to Zion, Jerusalem, His holy mountain to enjoy a 1000yr period of rest.

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. [13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

Theres the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

PSALM 17 [13] Arise, O Lord, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword: [14] From men which are thy hand, O Lord, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes. [15] As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I SHALL BE SATISFIED, WHEN I AWAKE, WITH THY LIKENESS.

 

[Chowmah]

MATT.18 [11] For the Son of man is come to SAVE THAT WHICH WAS LOST. [12] How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?[13] And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

The Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

MATT.15 [22] And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou Son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.[23] But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.[24] But he answered and said, I AM NOT SENT BUT UNTO THE LOST SHEEP of the house of Israel.

I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel

JER.50 [4] In those days, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God.[5] They shall ask the way to Zion with their faces thitherward, saying, Come, and let us join ourselves to the LORD in A PERPETUAL COVENANT that shall not be forgotten.[6] MY PEOPLE HATH BEEN LOST SHEEP: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN THEIR RESTINGPLACE.

Well, In Jeremiah we can find the lost sheep that Jesus came for. What perpetual covenant was forgotten by these lost sheep? Forgotten their “resting place”..

EXODUS 31[15] Six days may work be done; but in THE SEVENTH IS THE SABBATH of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL COVENANT.[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

This is really great. If you have a KJV bible you will find the words “PERPETUAL COVENANT” only in these 2 scriptures. Jer. 50 and Exodus 31. Exodus 31 speaks of the sabbath as a “perpetual covenant” and Jer.50 speaks of that “perpetual covenant” being forgotten by His people. According to this scripture His “lost sheep” will return and keep His sabbath day. LOST NO MORE! There are many who claim to believe in Jesus and yet the new testament clearly says only a few will be saved to the kingdom. In the book of James you find if you practice to break even one of the commandments, you’ve broken them all. You are a transgressor. In the new testament Jesus told us that he was Lord of the sabbath day. So if Jesus is Lord of the sabbath rest why would anyone wanna keep a different day of rest formed by the docrtines of man?

AM I BEING SHUNNED?

 

[Darrell C]

AM I BEING SHUNNED?

Hello Chowmah, sorry I haven't been around, have been pretty busy.

You have an interesting take on the new birth, not that I agree with it, and here is why:

You say that the new birth is not received at salvation, is that right?

Address these, if you don't mind...


1 John 3:9 (King James Version)

9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


Notice the term "born of God." Would you deny this speaks of the new birth?



1 John 4:7 (King James Version)

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.


Are these waiting for the new birth?


Well, its late and for some reason my "paster" isn't working, so I'll stop there.

God bless.

 

[Dr. Walter]

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, HOW CAN A MAN BE BORN WHEN HE IS OLD?

JOB 14 [10] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?[11] As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:[12] So MAN LIETH DOWN, AND RISETH NOT: TILL THE HEAVENS BE NO MORE, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me![14] IF A MAN DIE, SHALL HE LIVE AGAIN? all the days of my appointed time will I WAIT, TILL MY CHANGE COME.

Nicodemus asks, how can a man be born when he is old? Job asks, If a man die, shall he live again?

2 PETER 3 [9] The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. [10] But THE DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Job gives the timing of this event. “The heavens be more” on the Day of the Lord

JOHN 3 [3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.[6] THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE FLESH IS FLESH; AND THAT WHICH IS BORN OF THE SPIRIT IS SPIRIT.[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

1 COR. 15 [50] Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, [52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED.

1COR.15{50} takes place on the Day of the Lord according to Job and also 1Thes.4. When we are changed in the twinkling of an eye and brought to Zion, Jerusalem, His holy mountain to enjoy a 1000yr period of rest.

ISAIAH 27 [12] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and YE SHALL BE GATHERED ONE BY ONE, O YE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. [13] And it shall come to pass in that day, that the GREAT TRUMPET SHALL BE BLOWN, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, AND SHALL WORSHIP THE LORD IN THE HOLY MOUNT AT JERUSALEM.

Theres the last trumpet of 1Cor.15

PSALM 17 [13] Arise, O Lord, disappoint him, cast him down: deliver my soul from the wicked, which is thy sword: [14] From men which are thy hand, O Lord, from men of the world, which have their portion in this life, and whose belly thou fillest with thy hid treasure: they are full of children, and leave the rest of their substance to their babes. [15] As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I SHALL BE SATISFIED, WHEN I AWAKE, WITH THY LIKENESS.

If you are inferring that the new birth occurs at the resurrection you are sorely mistaken and you have misinterpreted not only the scriptures you are using but avoiding clear and explicit scriptures that demand the new birth occurs in connections with gospel conversion.

For example, 1 John 5:1 uses the aorist tense verb of completed action "begotten" with the present participle "believeth" demonstrating grammatically it is already a completed action and occurred simeltaneously at the point of faith in Christ. John repeatedly uses the aorist tense verb "begotten" since the chapter demonstrating completed action.

Likewise, Ephesians 2:5 where "quickened" is an Aorist tense verb in contrast to a present or future tense verb.

Have I misunderstood your post above? Are you not inferring that the new birth is incompleted but yet future??