The 10 commandments and being saved

[Fred's Wife]

The Old Testament Law Was a Temporary Covenant:

(1) It was given to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ (Galatians 3:19-25).

(2) It is abolished with Christ's coming (2 Corinthians 3:6-17).

(3) It was taken away when Christ died (Colossians 2:14-17).

What Was the Law's Purpose?

(1) It was given to reveal sin and to show man that he is a guilty sinner before God (Romans 3:19-20; 7:12-13; 1 Timothy 1:9-10).

(2) It was given to bring men to Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:24-25).

Sounds like you are still under the schoolmaster, Chowmah.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

The Old Testament Law Was a Temporary Covenant:

(1) It was given to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ (Galatians 3:19-25).

(2) It is abolished with Christ's coming (2 Corinthians 3:6-17).

(3) It was taken away when Christ died (Colossians 2:14-17).

What Was the Law's Purpose?

(1) It was given to reveal sin and to show man that he is a guilty sinner before God (Romans 3:19-20; 7:12-13; 1 Timothy 1:9-10).

(2) It was given to bring men to Jesus Christ (Galatians 3:24-25).

Sounds like you are still under the schoolmaster, Chowmah.

I must admit. Great summary.

 

[Chowmah]

If you would like to discuss this, fine, I would love that.

But, if you merely wish to teach your doctrine and call those who oppose it false teachers, well, that is your choice.

If you do, try not to cram so many proof-texts into one post...just give a particular passage, and lets examine it.

God bless.

MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

DarrellC
Why does Jesus say only a few will enter the gate?

 

[Fred's Wife]

MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

DarrellC
Why does Jesus say only a few will enter the gate?

Man must come God's way; there is only one way of salvation, the narrow way, the way of faith in Jesus Christ.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

 

[Chowmah]

The Old Testament Law Was a Temporary Covenant:

(1) It was given to prepare Israel for the coming of Christ (Galatians 3:19-25).

Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.


Hmmm...The law was the schoolmaster for Israel? Then Israel attained faith? Doesnt make any sence. Your not born with faith. The above scripture says you attain faith by 1st going to the schoolmaster

 

[Chowmah]

The Old Testament Law Was a Temporary Covenant:

(2) It is abolished with Christ's coming (2 Corinthians 3:6-17).

Not abolished but magnified

2 COR. 3 [6] WHO ALSO HATH MADE US ABLE MINISTERS OF THE NEW TESTAMENT; NOT OF THE LETTER, BUT OF THE SPIRIT: FOR THE LETTER KILLETH, BUT THE SPIRIT GIVETH LIFE. [7] But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: [8] How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? [9] For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. [10] For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. [11] For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

As we can see in above scripture we are now to walk in the spirit of the law. If we walk in only the letter of the law this will lead to death, but if we walk in the spirit of the law this leads to life.

MATTHEW 5 [20] For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. [21] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT KILL; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: [22] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER IS ANGRY WITH HIS BROTHER WITHOUT A CAUSE SHALL BE IN DANGER OF THE JUDGMENT: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not kill
NEW SPIRIT- Don’t even get angry. Call no man a fool. Love one another in thought, word and deed.

MATTHEW 5 [27] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY: [28] BUT I SAY UNTO YOU, THAT WHOSOEVER LOOKETH ON A WOMAN TO LUST AFTER HER HATH COMMITTED ADULTERY WITH HER ALREADY IN HIS HEART.

OLD LETTER- Thou shalt not commit adultery
NEW SPIRIT- Do not look on a woman to lust. Keep the law in our mind and spirit. Even in our eyes.

So you can see that Jesus did not do away with the letter of the law. Common sense will tell ya in order to walk in the spirit of the law you must also be walking in the letter. Can you commit the very act of adultry and then claim you have not sinned because you did not lust after her with your eyes because they were closed. Jesus made the commandments even harder to keep and more honorable.

ISAIAH 42 [20] Seeing many things, but thou observest not; opening the ears, but he heareth not.[21] The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; HE WILL MAGNIFY THE LAW, and make it honourable.

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life). Aint the WORD of God great

 

[Fred's Wife]

The only thing which makes sense to me is your insistence that the Law saves and that you are still under the law/schoolmaster. If one is born again by the Spirit of God, that one is NO LONGER under the schoolmaster...that one is IN CHRIST.

Romans 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

 

[Chowmah]

Sounds like you are still under the schoolmaster, Chowmah.

Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Yeah, in a way i spose.

 

[Chowmah]

The only thing which makes sense to me is your insistence that the Law saves

Once again....I never said the law saves

 

[Fred's Wife]

Yes, Jesus magnified the law. He took the letter of the law (which leads to death) and magnified the law to a spiritual level (which leads to life). Aint the WORD of God great

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The law was a SHADOW...we are IN CHRIST, we are not living in SHADOWS!

 

[Fred's Wife]

Once again....I never said the law saves

You may not have said it, but you are most definitely IMPLYING it.

 

[Chowmah]

You may not have said it, but you are most definitely IMPLYING it.

No i am not

 

[Chowmah]

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Colossians 2:15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The law was a SHADOW...we are IN CHRIST, we are not living in SHADOWS!

Yeah
Saw you post this before. Ill get back to ya. Already found a few ways to prove to ya this scripture isnt saying what you think it says. Im sure ill find more

 

[Darrell C]

You bring a smile to my face. Thank you. You tell me to keep my proof-texts (scriptures) short while writing the longest post of the thread. But ill do as you ask. Ill try anyways.

I have to say, I also had a smile.

Good, I appreciate it.

Be right back.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Can i ask you a question? What is the "falling away"?

What is your text?

 

[Darrell C]

Yes Darrel C

I love ya ole boy

Matthew 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

If i didnt love ya i wouldnt care one bit if you were called the least by those in the Kingdom

That is encouraging.

So tell me, what kingdom do you think is represented here?

How do you see that those who are in the kingdom (already), seeing that they are distinguished between least and great, are not saved?

They aren't threatened with losing their salvation, how do you make this to speak of retaining salvation by keeping the commandments?

Could it be, if this is speaking of those who are saved, that there will be sin in heaven?

Or could it be, that this speaks of the earthly kingdom that is to come?

It would have to, because scripture does not even intimate that there will be sin in heaven, but it does say that Christians will sin at times, though not live in a continual state of sin.

Matthew 5:20 (King James Version)

20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Here is another requirement for entering the kingdom of heaven...does your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees, who "kept the law?"

If you are in Christ, good news!

Your righteousness does exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees.

Because it is His righteousness imputed on your behalf...not yours.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Just read whats written. Its talking of the law of Moses concerning being circumcised. Read verse 5. Nothing to do with the 10 commandments.Then go read verse 24. Says the same thing

Acts 15:24
Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:


Being circumcised is not one of Gods 10 commandments

And with all that said about circumcision. What the truth about us keeping Gods 10 commandments?

1 Cor. 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

We can't seclude the law of God in the ten commandments.

Anyway, the verse states...and keep the law.

That would include the ten commandments.

The truth about keeping the ten commandments is this, at least, as far as I see it:

Those who are in Christ will by the new nature...keep the commandments.

Perfectly?

Not me, but there are some who claim to do so.

I have to be assured that if I sin, I have an advocate, and He is faithful to forgive.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

GALATIANS 3 [23] But BEFORE FAITH CAME, WE WERE KEPT UNDER THE LAW, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. [24] Wherefore THE LAW WAS OUR SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US UNTO CHRIST, that we might be justified by faith.

According to scripture we get faith by 1st going to the schoolmaster. The 10 commandments and our faith would afterwards be revealed

Paul is speaking of faith before the Messiah came, which looked forward, and the faith that is now revealed.

I notice you highlighted "before faith came," could you tell me what, other than what Paul has previously said in this passage, what he is talking about?

I would suggest to you that he is speaking about faith in Christ.

Which they did not have specifically before He came.

God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

There ya go again Darrel C. I know that you are saved only by the grace of God. Our differences come as to whom this free gift is given. I say its given only to those who obey the "voice" of God. You seem to say its handed out to anyone who comes along. Look at the passage of the schoolmaster and faith

Ephes. 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Then you will see to whom this free gift is given

Which passage?

Galatians or Ephesians?

Because both exclude works.

Consider:


Galatians 3
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?


3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?


You might think that saying one is saved by grace, yet say at the same time "I say its given only to those who obey the "voice" of God" isn't teaching works for salvation, but it still makes salvation a "gift" that is received by what we do.

Were you there the day Jesus died for you? Your sins were, my sins were, but we did not contribute to the work that made salvation possible for you and me.


Ephesians is an equally clear passage:


Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;


Had you already died when the Lord saved you, made you alive in Him?

This speaks of the new birth, being born, not of blood, not of the will of the flesh, and not of the will of man...

But of God.

The power to become sons of God through the new birth which includes belief, faith and repentance, is OF GOD...not men.


4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved


Any attempt to place the work of man as a part of the work of God concerning salvation is directly opposed to what is stated in these verses.

Well, you know the rest of this passage, so I will try to keep this short.

This is interesting , though, original, if I may say.



God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

MATT.7 [13] Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction,and many there be which go in thereat:[14] Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life,and FEW THERE BE THAT FIND IT.

DarrellC
Why does Jesus say only a few will enter the gate?

Because He knows what is in the hearts of men.

What is the wide gate, the broad way?

It is not the difference between keeping the law and not, it is the difference between accepting Christ or rejecting Him.

If the only sin that can not be forgiven is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (which, by the way, I view as ascribing Christ's work to the devil, and ultimately rejecting Christ...also called "doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace), why is it that failure to keep the commandments excludes one from being saved?

Especially...when we are told that the law was never kept?

The "strait gate" is trusting Christ.

Many will ignore the Spirit of God, and choose to follow a God that is more to their own liking, their own making, in fact.

God bless.