Duh....and some are regenerated.
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The 5 Points that lead me out of Calvinism
- Thread starter Skandelon
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Duh....and some are regenerated.
savedbymercy
New Member
Do you believe that some are born regenerated or born again ? I believe the scripture teaches that all men are born spiritually dead sinners and remain that way until they are made alive or quickened !
You say that lost people think the gospel is foolishness. Yet here was a king that was interested in the gospel and almost believed in it. A king being almost persuaded is not the act of a fool.
Why did Paul say that he wished everyone would become a Christian if people are elected to damnation?
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savedbymercy
New Member
This is a rabbit trail question, I am talking about mans depravity and inability to believe the Gospel in a depraved lost state !
OK, we can leave that subject matter.
Previously you said:
"...a lost person cannot believe the Gospel, it is foolishness to him or her."
I presented an example from the Bible of a lost person that was interested in the Gospel, was willingly seeking to learn about it and almost became a believer. That's hardly an act of foolishness and inability to believe the Gospel.
savedbymercy
New Member
I already responded to that !
Yes, your response was "it doesn't matter what King Agrippa said, what matters is what God's word says." Well, God's word includes what King Agrippa says about this subject, so it must matter. You don't get to decide what is and what isn't important in God's Word. It's all given to us by inspiration for doctrine, correction, reproof, and instruction.
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savedbymercy
New Member
Paul's conversation with the King does not change anything, the Gospel is hid to them that are lost so that they believe not, 2 Cor 4:3-4 !
I see that you continue your practice of ignoring and denying much scripture and building your theology on a single verse or two. I guess there is no further reason to discuss things with you.
Opening door to killfile for thee.
savedbymercy
New Member
The Gospel is hid to them that are lost, that they believe not, for they're blinded by the god of this world 2 Cor 4:3-4 !
DHK [QUOTE said:
did it ever occur to you that you should not speak about what you do not understand......creating a strawman does not make smooth threads it causes division.
Irresistible Grace (or efficacious grace) is a doctrine in Christian theology particularly associated with Calvinism, which teaches that the saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God's timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to faith in Christ.
The reason this doctrine is called “irresistible” grace is that it always results in the intended outcome, the salvation of the person it is given to.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/irresistible-grace.html#ixzz3OCFhkkLT
Another misconception concerning this doctrine is that it teaches the Holy Spirit cannot be resisted at all. Yet, again, that is not what the doctrine teaches because that is not what the Bible teaches. God’s grace can be resisted, and the Holy Spirit’s influence can be resisted even by one of the elect.
However, what the doctrine does correctly recognize is that the Holy Spirit can overcome all such resistance and that He will draw the elect with an irresistible grace that makes them want to come to God and helps them to understand the gospel so they can and will believe it.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/irresistible-grace.html#ixzz3OCGhWZAg
You keep going to your pet verses even when I show you that you take them out of context. You still don't reply. You have no intention of learning; no intention of debate. You take the above scripture out of their contexts as pretexts to use as texts to try and establish a contorted doctrine that the Bible does not teach.
Let's go through it again.
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
First, in verse 3, it says "IF" our gospel is hid. Paul's gospel was not hid. He did not "veil" (literally) his gospel. He clearly preached it. It was for the lost, and that is who preached to, the lost!
The "if" is suppositional. "If our gospel is hid, it is hid to them that are lost."
Since when was Paul's gospel hid? Why would you make that supposition.
That is wrong. Paul never hid his gospel.
The only way the gospel became hid is through unbelief and rejection, and that rejection was aided with the help of the devil who blinds the eyes of the lost.
But again in verse 4--What does the gospel do? The gospel is not hid or veiled, it shines brightly--the light of the glorious gospel pointing people to Christ who is the image of God
God the Father through Jesus Christ is revealed to the lost through the gospel. That is what this passage teaches--the very opposite of what you are trying to make it teach.
Now after you digest this passage perhaps we can go on to some of the other ones that you are distorting.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
They are not out of context, but found within a context, you are just making a excuse for your unbelief of the Truth !
They are not out of context, but found within a context, you are just making a excuse for your unbelief of the Truth !
DHK;
those spoken of in this verse.....always resisted they were not effectually drawn ....you still do not understand the teaching do you?.
It is always true for the elect,,, not one is lost.
those spoken of in this verse.....always resisted they were not effectually drawn ....you still do not understand the teaching do you?.
It is always true for the elect,,, not one is lost.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
They were unregenerated, thats why they could not believe. They are said to have uncircumcised hear and ears. In order to Hear God's Words positively with faith as the resulting fruit, one must be born of God. Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
To receive the Word and Believe we must have Spiritually circumcised hearts and ears Rom 2:29
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Thats New Birth !
They were unregenerated, thats why they could not believe. They are said to have uncircumcised hear and ears. In order to Hear God's Words positively with faith as the resulting fruit, one must be born of God. Jn 8:47
47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
To receive the Word and Believe we must have Spiritually circumcised hearts and ears Rom 2:29
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Thats New Birth !
Go back and read through the posts until you come to the one where I have already posted and explained these verses for you. Why should I have to keep repeating myself.
Jesus is comparing the faith of unbelieving Pharisees to the faith of their father--believing Abraham. I have explained this already. But you neglect context.
NO. You just quoted the law, as it applies to the Jews. You completely ignored the context of the passage.
Romans 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
He is speaking about the Jews. He differentiates about who is a true Jew and who isn't, and it has nothing to do with the Gentiles. These verses do not deal with the Gentiles.
Generally speaking the outline is this:
Romans chapter one: Paul addresses the Gentiles.
Romans chapter two: Paul addresses the Jews.
Romans chapter three: Paul addresses both Gentiles and Jews--ALL
Thus you are ignoring context here and simply pulling scripture out of context at your own convenience trying to prove a pet doctrine that is not scriptural.
savedbymercy
New Member
Rom 2:29 is not speaking of just physical jews, now you are adding to the scriptures ! And no one can believe the Gospel who is in a lost condition, 2 Cor 4:3-4 verified that, then those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 so they cannot hear and put Faith in Christ, they have no choice nor ability to !
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PreachTony
Active Member
How can the gospel be the power of God unto salvation when, according to you, a person has to already be saved to even understand it?
And yes, I know you're probably just going to quote scriptures at me. Please, give me an explanation of why you believe this is so, and of the mechanics involved in such a belief. After all, we've laid out for you the version we believe is most consistent with the scripture, which holds that hearing the gospel must come prior to salvation. You are the one stating that it is, in fact, opposite that. The onus is now on you to explain.
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