...hmm, Russian boiler salesman.
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The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?2
- Thread starter Brightfame52
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...hmm, Russian boiler salesman.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
To be married to another !
Christ death accomplished that all for whom He died should be married to another.
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
The believer is become dead to the Law, its condemnation, and all of its requirements as a covenant of works, do and live. Now how are believers in Christ dead to the Law ? Is it by their Faith in Christ ? No sir, its by the Body of Christ, meaning His Death and all that it accomplished for them in regards to God's Law. He kept it perfectly for them, and where they did offend, He bore the full cup of God's wrath for them, and the end design was so that they can be married to another to another, even Him that has been raised up from the dead for their Justification Rom 4:25, that they may bring forth Fruit unto God, that is perform those good works that God before hath ordained they they should walk in Eph 2:10.
Marriage is an fellowship, a Experiential Union, so all for whom Christ died, God out of Faithfulness calls them into the Fellowship of His Son 1 Cor 1:9
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
The word unto is the preposition eis and denotes into as in entrance into, this call actually results in entering into experiential union and fellowship with Christ !
This is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all whom He died and rose again for their Justification..
Christ death accomplished that all for whom He died should be married to another.
Rom 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
The believer is become dead to the Law, its condemnation, and all of its requirements as a covenant of works, do and live. Now how are believers in Christ dead to the Law ? Is it by their Faith in Christ ? No sir, its by the Body of Christ, meaning His Death and all that it accomplished for them in regards to God's Law. He kept it perfectly for them, and where they did offend, He bore the full cup of God's wrath for them, and the end design was so that they can be married to another to another, even Him that has been raised up from the dead for their Justification Rom 4:25, that they may bring forth Fruit unto God, that is perform those good works that God before hath ordained they they should walk in Eph 2:10.
Marriage is an fellowship, a Experiential Union, so all for whom Christ died, God out of Faithfulness calls them into the Fellowship of His Son 1 Cor 1:9
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.
The word unto is the preposition eis and denotes into as in entrance into, this call actually results in entering into experiential union and fellowship with Christ !
This is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all whom He died and rose again for their Justification..
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ's Atoning Death !
By Atonement is meant that Christ having died in the place of or in the stead of certain Chosen sinners, taking upon Himself the due and Just punishment that was due their sins, transgressions, iniquities, and offences, and for that made a sin offering, the Just for the unjust [sinners] in order that or for the purpose of bringing them to God 1 Pet 3:18
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Thats effecting atonement when those Christ died for, as a benefit from His Death, have it all done to them and in them, that is necessary, Spiritually, that brings them unto Faith and Fellowship with God !
Anything short of this outcome is not an atonement, and means Christ death did not succeed for those He died to bring to God. However Paul says it did succeed, because He writes, by Him [Christ] we have received Atonement Rom 5:11
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have now received the atonement
What that means is that by Christ, His Death, His accomplishment, we have been experimentally reconciled to God [become believers] Col 1:21
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
The greek word here for reconciled is Apokatallasso and means:
to reconcile completely72
to reconcile back again
bring back a former state of harmony
Yes, this is the Atonement Christ death alone accomplished for everyone He died for ,it brings them back into harmony and fellowship with God, like they had with God before they sinned in Adam.
By Atonement is meant that Christ having died in the place of or in the stead of certain Chosen sinners, taking upon Himself the due and Just punishment that was due their sins, transgressions, iniquities, and offences, and for that made a sin offering, the Just for the unjust [sinners] in order that or for the purpose of bringing them to God 1 Pet 3:18
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
Thats effecting atonement when those Christ died for, as a benefit from His Death, have it all done to them and in them, that is necessary, Spiritually, that brings them unto Faith and Fellowship with God !
Anything short of this outcome is not an atonement, and means Christ death did not succeed for those He died to bring to God. However Paul says it did succeed, because He writes, by Him [Christ] we have received Atonement Rom 5:11
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ by whom we have now received the atonement
What that means is that by Christ, His Death, His accomplishment, we have been experimentally reconciled to God [become believers] Col 1:21
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
The greek word here for reconciled is Apokatallasso and means:
to reconcile completely72
to reconcile back again
bring back a former state of harmony
Yes, this is the Atonement Christ death alone accomplished for everyone He died for ,it brings them back into harmony and fellowship with God, like they had with God before they sinned in Adam.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Christ's Atoning Death !
You see sin resulted in alienation and hostility in our minds as is pointed out here Col 1:21
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Let me say something here. This verse is not only describing the fornicators, drunkards, drug attics in the world, but also the very religious people, the very moral people, people who live decently and honestly before men, but they just don't have the True Christ.
Also Eph 2:1-3
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Notice Paul said that he also walked in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind, now paul I do not believe was a fornicator, a thief or a drunkard, but this is what characterized previous lifestyle Phil 3:4-6
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Paul was I believe a very pious and religious man, perhaps from his youth.
But when he was saved, he looks back at that lifestyle just described in Phil 3 as one of being "fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind".
Eph 4:17-18
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:73
However, the reconciliation and atoning benefits of Christ's death, the Holy Spirit working in conjunction with it, working in them that Christ died for, works so in them to present them Holy and Blameless before God, in the Day of Christ. Col 1:21-22
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Phil 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
So the commencing of the good work in us , reconciling us to God subjectively, is what Paul means by us receiving the Atonement, we have received of its mighty effects, it begins a work in us by God the Holy Spirit, that actively brings back to God, Thats the Atonement that Christ's provides for everyone he died for, God's Elect.
You see sin resulted in alienation and hostility in our minds as is pointed out here Col 1:21
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Let me say something here. This verse is not only describing the fornicators, drunkards, drug attics in the world, but also the very religious people, the very moral people, people who live decently and honestly before men, but they just don't have the True Christ.
Also Eph 2:1-3
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Notice Paul said that he also walked in the lusts of the flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind, now paul I do not believe was a fornicator, a thief or a drunkard, but this is what characterized previous lifestyle Phil 3:4-6
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
5 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;
6 Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
Paul was I believe a very pious and religious man, perhaps from his youth.
But when he was saved, he looks back at that lifestyle just described in Phil 3 as one of being "fulfilling the desires of the flesh and the mind".
Eph 4:17-18
17This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:73
However, the reconciliation and atoning benefits of Christ's death, the Holy Spirit working in conjunction with it, working in them that Christ died for, works so in them to present them Holy and Blameless before God, in the Day of Christ. Col 1:21-22
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Phil 1:6
6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:
So the commencing of the good work in us , reconciling us to God subjectively, is what Paul means by us receiving the Atonement, we have received of its mighty effects, it begins a work in us by God the Holy Spirit, that actively brings back to God, Thats the Atonement that Christ's provides for everyone he died for, God's Elect.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I know that there are many different theories of the Atonement of which I am not going to address and dissect, but its my firm conviction that the scriptures teach a vicarious Atonement. That Christ actually died in the place of elect sinners, and consequently if this be True, and Christ did die for elect sinners 1 Cor 15:3
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Rom 8:33-34
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.74
Note: Remember the OT Types for the sacrifice of sin, they also were limited to an Elect People, elect sinners .
Now as a result in the case of Christ's vicarious death for elect sinners, as a result, There are no debts of sin charged against the elect Christ died for. They were canceled or as Paul writes in Col 2:14
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This blotting out of the Elect's sins is so complete, God has no reason to ever punish them for sin again. Good Job Jesus Christ !
3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
Rom 8:33-34
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.74
Note: Remember the OT Types for the sacrifice of sin, they also were limited to an Elect People, elect sinners .
Now as a result in the case of Christ's vicarious death for elect sinners, as a result, There are no debts of sin charged against the elect Christ died for. They were canceled or as Paul writes in Col 2:14
14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
This blotting out of the Elect's sins is so complete, God has no reason to ever punish them for sin again. Good Job Jesus Christ !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
His Sheep will know Him Savingly !
Jn 10:14
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Christ says, " I know my Sheep and am known of Mine" that is His Sheep will Know Him savingly !
Christ ensures us that all Christ's Sheep, those He lay down His Life for, shall come into a Saving Knowledge of Him. Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they[Sheep] might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The word know is the same in Jn 10:14 and in Jn 17:3
It means an experiential knowing !
Christ death ensures a positive personal knowledge of Himself to all He died for, so Christ could say of them:
am known of mine !
The statement also ensures us that Christ knows experientially all those He died for !
So another conclusion we can derive from this saying of Christ is that those He shall yet say this to were never His own and He never died for Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And since He never knew them, they never knew Him, even though they called Him Lord Lord .They knew another jesus, one of their own imagination !
Jn 10:14
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
Christ says, " I know my Sheep and am known of Mine" that is His Sheep will Know Him savingly !
Christ ensures us that all Christ's Sheep, those He lay down His Life for, shall come into a Saving Knowledge of Him. Jn 17:2-3
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they[Sheep] might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
The word know is the same in Jn 10:14 and in Jn 17:3
It means an experiential knowing !
Christ death ensures a positive personal knowledge of Himself to all He died for, so Christ could say of them:
am known of mine !
The statement also ensures us that Christ knows experientially all those He died for !
So another conclusion we can derive from this saying of Christ is that those He shall yet say this to were never His own and He never died for Matt 7:23
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
And since He never knew them, they never knew Him, even though they called Him Lord Lord .They knew another jesus, one of their own imagination !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Receiving the Atonement !
Rom 5:11
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
This means that those Christ died for, and reconciled to God objectively, they receive the benefits subjectively of Christ atoning death, by Him.. Thats because He is the living Testator that now lives and ensures that they become beneficiaries of His death's accomplishments for them.
So we receive it by Faith, Holy Spirit given Faith from New Birth, when we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins. Lk 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
The Knowledge here is understanding, to give understanding of salvation to His People, much like 1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
By the remission of sins, by that which comes through Jesus Christ, that which His blood gives to many ! Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Also Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Or that they may receive the atonement. The atonement, reconciliation and propitiation are all the same and include the forgiveness of sins because of the blood of Christ !
This was something that the Apostles were to declare among the nations along with repentances, in Christ Name Lk 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached[declared or made known, not offered] in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
The word Preached here is the word kēryssō and means:
to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done
This to publish is always in regards to things God has done, not what he might do or what He offers to do . Mk 5:20
20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.
Lk 8:39
39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
So Preaching repentance and remission of sins is not God offering anything, it is what God has done and accomplished for His People through the Person of Christ ! And all whom it pertains to will receive the Knowledge of it, that's receiving the Atonement !
Rom 5:11
11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
This means that those Christ died for, and reconciled to God objectively, they receive the benefits subjectively of Christ atoning death, by Him.. Thats because He is the living Testator that now lives and ensures that they become beneficiaries of His death's accomplishments for them.
So we receive it by Faith, Holy Spirit given Faith from New Birth, when we receive the Knowledge of the remission of sins. Lk 1:77
77 To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
The Knowledge here is understanding, to give understanding of salvation to His People, much like 1 Jn 5:20
20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
By the remission of sins, by that which comes through Jesus Christ, that which His blood gives to many ! Matt 26:28
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Also Acts 26:18
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.
Or that they may receive the atonement. The atonement, reconciliation and propitiation are all the same and include the forgiveness of sins because of the blood of Christ !
This was something that the Apostles were to declare among the nations along with repentances, in Christ Name Lk 24:47
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached[declared or made known, not offered] in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
The word Preached here is the word kēryssō and means:
to publish, proclaim openly: something which has been done
This to publish is always in regards to things God has done, not what he might do or what He offers to do . Mk 5:20
20 And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.
Lk 8:39
39 Return to thine own house, and shew how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
So Preaching repentance and remission of sins is not God offering anything, it is what God has done and accomplished for His People through the Person of Christ ! And all whom it pertains to will receive the Knowledge of it, that's receiving the Atonement !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
It causes Gospel obedience to those He died for !
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The being made perfect here means by fulfilling every stipulation of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, to include His obedience to death as per Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19, He became the Author of Eternal Salvation, to those obeying Him.80
This means His Perfect obedience causes/authors their obedience. Evidence therefore of Christ having died for someone, is that they become obedient to the Gospel commands of God. The word obey in Heb 5:9 is the greek word hypakouō
and means:
to listen, to harken
a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)
2) to harken to a command
a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to
It means to harken to a command. Now what were the Gospel commands ?
One is Repentance ! Acts 17:30
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
This word commandeth in the greek is in the present tense, God through the preaching of the Apostles was commanding repentance from all whom Christ had died for. Not only was this just a bare command, but God because of Christ wrought their obedience in them through the Preaching of the Apostles !
Paul states in Rom 15:18
For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
Christ wrought by Preaching the obedience of elect gentiles ! Thats why we have Heb 5:9 That Christ is the Author of Salvation to who ? Why those obeying Him, those obeying the Gospel, those who hearken to the command to repent ! Another Gospel command that they shall hearken to is to Believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Again, Christ work, wroughts obedience to this command, in them whom He died for. He causes their obedience.
And He wroughts obedience in them to the command to Love one another, that is brotherly love.
Lets look at this command given by Christ to His disciples See Jn 13:34;15:12,17
Peter says in 1 Pet 1:22,23
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: What did he base this on ? Vs 23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Thats who the Gospel commands are for, those being born again. They are the ones who are commanded to Repent, to Believe, and to Love one another, and Christ is the Author of them obeying Him !
Heb 5:9
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
The being made perfect here means by fulfilling every stipulation of the Everlasting Covenant of Grace, to include His obedience to death as per Phil 2:8; Rom 5:19, He became the Author of Eternal Salvation, to those obeying Him.80
This means His Perfect obedience causes/authors their obedience. Evidence therefore of Christ having died for someone, is that they become obedient to the Gospel commands of God. The word obey in Heb 5:9 is the greek word hypakouō
and means:
to listen, to harken
a) of one who on the knock at the door comes to listen who it is, (the duty of a porter)
2) to harken to a command
a) to obey, be obedient to, submit to
It means to harken to a command. Now what were the Gospel commands ?
One is Repentance ! Acts 17:30
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
This word commandeth in the greek is in the present tense, God through the preaching of the Apostles was commanding repentance from all whom Christ had died for. Not only was this just a bare command, but God because of Christ wrought their obedience in them through the Preaching of the Apostles !
Paul states in Rom 15:18
For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,
Christ wrought by Preaching the obedience of elect gentiles ! Thats why we have Heb 5:9 That Christ is the Author of Salvation to who ? Why those obeying Him, those obeying the Gospel, those who hearken to the command to repent ! Another Gospel command that they shall hearken to is to Believe on the name of the Son of God. 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
Again, Christ work, wroughts obedience to this command, in them whom He died for. He causes their obedience.
And He wroughts obedience in them to the command to Love one another, that is brotherly love.
Lets look at this command given by Christ to His disciples See Jn 13:34;15:12,17
Peter says in 1 Pet 1:22,23
Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: What did he base this on ? Vs 23
23Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Thats who the Gospel commands are for, those being born again. They are the ones who are commanded to Repent, to Believe, and to Love one another, and Christ is the Author of them obeying Him !
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Heb 10:10,14
We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Now the writer of Hebrews says this about the accomplishment of Christ's death for those He died for, that it Sanctified them. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and it means:
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
a) consecrate things to God
b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
a) to cleanse externally
b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul
Christ's sacrifice, contrary to the sacrifice of the OT Offerings, which purified outwardly as Per Heb 9:12
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Neither did the OT sacrifices take away the guilt of sin Heb 10:1-4
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
So, the Death or Offering of Christ far excelled the OT oblations for God's Chosen People, in that is #1 Took away the guilt of their sins, once and for all, and that it provides internal purification !
Now also the word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is in the perfect tense in the greek ! The Perfect tense means:
an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated
Now, this Truth should be believed by any who say they are Believers in God's Truth.
If this Truth is believed, then the other scriptures that appear to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, cannot be teaching that, unless all without exception have in fact been sanctified once and for all by the blood of Christ, and have had their sins guilt put away for good and have or will indeed experience an internal purification. If they do not, then the writer of hebrews has lied, and is proven to be a false witness. Also this Truth establishes the Eternal Security of all those Christ died for !
We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Now the writer of Hebrews says this about the accomplishment of Christ's death for those He died for, that it Sanctified them. The word sanctified here is the greek word hagiazō and it means:
1) to render or acknowledge, or to be venerable or hallow
2) to separate from profane things and dedicate to God
a) consecrate things to God
b) dedicate people to God
3) to purify
a) to cleanse externally
b) to purify by expiation: free from the guilt of sin
c) to purify internally by renewing of the soul
Christ's sacrifice, contrary to the sacrifice of the OT Offerings, which purified outwardly as Per Heb 9:12
13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Neither did the OT sacrifices take away the guilt of sin Heb 10:1-4
1For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
2For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
3But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
4For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
So, the Death or Offering of Christ far excelled the OT oblations for God's Chosen People, in that is #1 Took away the guilt of their sins, once and for all, and that it provides internal purification !
Now also the word sanctified here in Heb 10:10 is in the perfect tense in the greek ! The Perfect tense means:
an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated
Now, this Truth should be believed by any who say they are Believers in God's Truth.
If this Truth is believed, then the other scriptures that appear to teach that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, cannot be teaching that, unless all without exception have in fact been sanctified once and for all by the blood of Christ, and have had their sins guilt put away for good and have or will indeed experience an internal purification. If they do not, then the writer of hebrews has lied, and is proven to be a false witness. Also this Truth establishes the Eternal Security of all those Christ died for !
Thanks for all your hard work on this thread, @Brightfame52. Very worthwhile and very helpful. 
I hope people will read through your posts here again (not holding my breath for that).
I hope people will read through your posts here again (not holding my breath for that
).Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
We know that Christ could not have offered Himself for every man without exception simply because, by His offering, meaning His Death, He hath #1 Sanctified them [those He offered Himself for] once and For All. Heb 10:10
And #2 He hath perfected them forever by His Offering Heb 10:14
14For by one offering[His Death or Blood] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.82
Now, If Christ's death hath perfected forever them that are being sanctified by His death VS10, then, that means everyone without exception hath been perfected before God by the Death of Christ. That word Perfected is the greek word teleioō and means:
to make perfect, complete
a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)
a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
b) to be found perfect
3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4) to accomplish
a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event
1) of the prophecies of the scriptures
GWT With one sacrifice he accomplished the work of setting them apart for God forever.
WNT For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin.
WNB For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
What is important to understand, is that this perfecting has been solely accomplished by Christ's ONE OFFERING !
This is why Paul says this Rom 5:19
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience[Offering] of one shall many be made righteous.
You see that ? Christ,s one act of obedience or His Offering shall make many righteous, which is connected with that being made perfect by His Offering in Heb 10:14 !
Now the word Perfect in Heb 10:14 is also a Perfect tense passive verb. Again the Perfect tense means:
"an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated "
Now unless every single individual in the world without exception has been Perfected forever by the Offering of Christ, meaning His Death, then He could not have offered Himself in behalf of every single individual in the world without exception, lest The writer of Hebrews has been a false witness. Either the writer of Hebrews is a False witness or those preaching Christ died for all without exception, which all without exception are being saved, are false witnesses !
And #2 He hath perfected them forever by His Offering Heb 10:14
14For by one offering[His Death or Blood] he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.82
Now, If Christ's death hath perfected forever them that are being sanctified by His death VS10, then, that means everyone without exception hath been perfected before God by the Death of Christ. That word Perfected is the greek word teleioō and means:
to make perfect, complete
a) to carry through completely, to accomplish, finish, bring to an end
2) to complete (perfect)
a) add what is yet wanting in order to render a thing full
b) to be found perfect
3) to bring to the end (goal) proposed
4) to accomplish
a) bring to a close or fulfilment by event
1) of the prophecies of the scriptures
GWT With one sacrifice he accomplished the work of setting them apart for God forever.
WNT For by a single offering He has for ever completed the blessing for those whom He is setting free from sin.
WNB For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
What is important to understand, is that this perfecting has been solely accomplished by Christ's ONE OFFERING !
This is why Paul says this Rom 5:19
19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience[Offering] of one shall many be made righteous.
You see that ? Christ,s one act of obedience or His Offering shall make many righteous, which is connected with that being made perfect by His Offering in Heb 10:14 !
Now the word Perfect in Heb 10:14 is also a Perfect tense passive verb. Again the Perfect tense means:
"an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated "
Now unless every single individual in the world without exception has been Perfected forever by the Offering of Christ, meaning His Death, then He could not have offered Himself in behalf of every single individual in the world without exception, lest The writer of Hebrews has been a false witness. Either the writer of Hebrews is a False witness or those preaching Christ died for all without exception, which all without exception are being saved, are false witnesses !
It has been my understanding there is nothing impossible with God. Your attempt to make God seem weak by not being able to do anything is ridiculously false. and yet all of this nonsense is based on one verse taken out of context.
MB
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
I know what His dying was for and what it made salvation possible for men. It gives everyone a way to be saved from our sins. Not just a few pre-select men who claim election for them selves and can't prove it with scripture.
MB
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
MB
That doesn't answer the question. Let me ask you again.
...so as long as the wise human fulfills all the steps prescribed to them they will be successful in being saved.
Is that correct, MB?
In your verse God drags them to belief. Look at the narrative that comes before that verse. What was it that caused the jailer to ask the question?
Now, back to that question, which simply needs a correct or incorrect answer...
...so as long as the wise human fulfills all the steps prescribed to them they will be successful in being saved.
Is that correct, MB?
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Propitiation 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation[an appeasing] for our sins.
The word propitiation here as well as 1 Jn 2:2 is the greek word hilasmos and means:
an appeasing, propitiating
Our word appeases defined:83
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.
Christ death has accomplished Propitiation or Peace for all whom Christ died in the behalf of.
Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Or this scripture could very well read without doing no violence at all " and having made propitiation through through the blood of His Cross.
Peace, conciliation, pacific, are the results of Christ blood being shed !
Folks this is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all He died for. Now many false teachers appeal to 1 Jn 2:2 as a proof text that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, even though that is no where stated in the text. John, a believer, a jew, a minister to the circumcision Gal 2:9
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
John therefore a jew and sent to the jews did write to believers who were of the circumcision, meaning ethnic jews, and he stated that Christ had been their or our propitiation our peace for our sins [believing jews] but not for ours only, meaning not for jewish believers only, but He is also the propitiation of believers in the whole world or it could be better understood, of believers amongst all Nations of the Earth, in fulfillment of Gen 12:3
3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
You see, all the Families of the Earth means the whole wide world !
And that is what John means by, and not of ours only, but of the whole world.
Anyone whose sins have been propitiated, God is at peace with them through Jesus Christ, they can never perish for their sins, lest somehow Christ's blood becomes a non factor with God.. The believer does not present the Blood of Christ unto the Father, but Christ does ! And Christ forever intercedes in behalf of those He died for because of His Blood ! Rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Heb 7:25
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 5:6
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Now, to whom and for whom is Christ a priest forever ? It's To God the Father, and its for all those He died for Rom 8:33-34
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Everyone Christ died for, He makes Intercession for, and His Blood has satisfied, propitiated the Father forever for them.
1 Jn 4:10
Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation[an appeasing] for our sins.
The word propitiation here as well as 1 Jn 2:2 is the greek word hilasmos and means:
an appeasing, propitiating
Our word appeases defined:83
to bring to a state of peace, quiet, ease, calm, or contentment; pacify; soothe: to appease an angry king.
Christ death has accomplished Propitiation or Peace for all whom Christ died in the behalf of.
Col 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Or this scripture could very well read without doing no violence at all " and having made propitiation through through the blood of His Cross.
Peace, conciliation, pacific, are the results of Christ blood being shed !
Folks this is an accomplishment of the Death of Christ for all He died for. Now many false teachers appeal to 1 Jn 2:2 as a proof text that Christ died for everyone in the world without exception, even though that is no where stated in the text. John, a believer, a jew, a minister to the circumcision Gal 2:9
9And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.
John therefore a jew and sent to the jews did write to believers who were of the circumcision, meaning ethnic jews, and he stated that Christ had been their or our propitiation our peace for our sins [believing jews] but not for ours only, meaning not for jewish believers only, but He is also the propitiation of believers in the whole world or it could be better understood, of believers amongst all Nations of the Earth, in fulfillment of Gen 12:3
3And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
You see, all the Families of the Earth means the whole wide world !
And that is what John means by, and not of ours only, but of the whole world.
Anyone whose sins have been propitiated, God is at peace with them through Jesus Christ, they can never perish for their sins, lest somehow Christ's blood becomes a non factor with God.. The believer does not present the Blood of Christ unto the Father, but Christ does ! And Christ forever intercedes in behalf of those He died for because of His Blood ! Rom 8:
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Heb 7:25
25Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
Heb 7:3
Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 5:6
As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Now, to whom and for whom is Christ a priest forever ? It's To God the Father, and its for all those He died for Rom 8:33-34
33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Everyone Christ died for, He makes Intercession for, and His Blood has satisfied, propitiated the Father forever for them.
Brightfame52
Well-Known Member
Can't you read with out placing your own thoughts in there to change what your reading in to what you want it to say. When Christ died he made it possible for all to be saved.No one was saved with out the blood of Jesus if He hadn't died for our sins we would all be hell bound.
MB
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