Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?2

I'm not a "Calvinist" and never have been.

But I do agree with much of what that systematic theology teaches.
In the so-called "Five Points", I see the Bible agreeing with it right down the line, point by point.
But I see you agreeing with something that men have taught for many centuries now, and that most "denominations" ( especially in these last days ) are teaching more and more ...

The idea that sinful and rebellious men who will not and cannot ever be trusted to repent and obey the Lord, can, from those very same darkened and alienated hearts and minds ( Romans 1:18-32, Ephesians 4:17-19 ) actually affect a miracle from God... if we only "let Him";
That we can cooperate with God in order to "allow" Him to change our hard hearts...
That He extends His hand in friendship, and that we, as a race, actually have both the desire and the ability to choose between biting it off, and taking it in gratitude.

That my friend, is not taught anywhere in God's word.

Salvation is completely and totally "of" the Lord, and it is His holy work that He will not allow to be polluted by our own efforts at seeking to please Him;
Efforts that only end up not pleasing Him, because the only One who ever could, was put on a cross for the sake of His brethren.

It is to that set of teachings that I make my replies.



With that, I take my leave of this thread and wish you well.
May He bless you in many ways and with many good gifts, regardless of any disagreements that we may have.

 

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

 

The "work of God," not a work of man, Romans 4:4-5.

 

You asked:

Well, Christ did!:

28 They said therefore unto him, What must we do, that we may work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. Jn 6

 

Romans 4:4-5, ". . . Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. . . ."
Romans 11:6, ". . . And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. . . ."
Matthew 7:21-23, ". . . Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. . . ."

The question needs to be asked what work and whose work is one trusting in. John 6:27-29. Romans 2:10, Philippians 2:13.

 

K. But his faith is a 'fruit of the Spirit', i.e., 'the work of God'.

3 Wherefore I make known unto you, that no man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit. 1 Cor 12

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. Gal 5

The faith comes just as naturally as the works to those born of the Spirit:

14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

 

The faith precedes our having eternal life which precedes the having the fruit of the Spirit.

 

No. You've got it backwards. We must first be born from above before we can do any good thing.

I'm not going to go in circles with you again. Mostly what you do is pit scripture against scripture with no attempt to resolve or rightly divide seeming contradictions. You're a synergist. It appears you're incapable of thinking outside the synergist box. Fine. Stay where you're at. @MB will gladly go in circles with you.

 

You do errror. Romans 10:13-15 teaches, hearing precedes belief and the belief is prior to calling on the LORD being prior to being born again on the account of the promise of salvation following the asking.

 

12 The hearing ear, and the seeing eye, Jehovah hath made even both of them. Prov 20

16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see; and your ears, for they hear. Mt 13

15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
27 All things have been delivered unto me of my Father: and no one knoweth the Son, save the Father; neither doth any know the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son willeth to reveal him. Mt 11

You're the one that errs greatly if you think 'saved' is synonymous with the heavenly birth. One must be born from above before they can be 'saved'.

 

Well we disagree.

 

MB is GREAT. Special. Different from the rest of us. It is of MB that MB is in Christ Jesus.

 

...and that's fine. If you're as snug as a bug in a rug where you're at, stay there.

 

Well, what the word of God teaches.
Romans 3:10
Romans 3:23
Romans 5:12
Romans 6:23
Romans 5:8
Romans 10:9
Romans 10:13
Revelation 3:20

Many a Christian have been lead to their new birth using those passages.

 

Like I've always said God convinced me of Him Self. Convicted me of my sins and once I had faith He saved me. It is only Calvinist and people like you who accuse me of saving myself. This is what you accuse me of. It runs off me like water off a ducks back. No where in those passages does it teach that God saved me before I had faith..

 

Whose faith did you have, MB?

 

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