Featured The Atonement of Christ: What did it REALLY Achieve ?2

Faith is not a work. Romans 10:13 is true.
MB

 

Who said faith was a work?

 

Sorry about that. My Mistake
MB

 

In your opinion, They do not prove anything you've said so far I haven't given praise to anyone or thing but God and His son. There isn't a verse 61 in Isiah in chapter 42

 

The only way that calvinists hope to prove their view is to grab out of context random verses and hope that you will just accept them as proof. Context is not the friend of calvinism.
They always say we do not understand calvinism but what we do not understand is how anyone in their right mind would follow calvinism. Calvinism is just a man made man glorifying theology. Their one of the elect don't you know, how dare you question their higher knowledge, their greater insight of the bible.
If they would just stop with the hyperbole and just use scripture in context then many of their errors would disappear.

 

Austin perhaps you should do a bit more reading.

Salvation - the Gift from God Eph_2:8-9
Dr. William Mounce oversight committee of ESV

For centuries, Bible commentators have differed on the precise reference of the pronoun “that” in Eph_2:8. Does “that” (touto G5124) refer to faith, as many have stated (e.g., Augustine, Chrysostom, Westcott, Lenski, etc.), or, does “that” refer to salvation from sin? Is faith “the gift of God,” or is this gift salvation by grace through faith?
Admittedly, from a cursory reading of Eph_2:8, it may appear that the relative pronoun that has faith as its grammatical antecedent. Those who believe that faith is a gift (i.e., miraculous imposition) from God, often point out that in this verse “faith” is the nearest antecedent of “that” (“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God”). However, when one examines Eph_2:8 in the language in which it was written originally (Greek), he finds that the pronoun that G5124 (touto) is neuter in gender, while the word faith G4102 (pistis) is feminine. Since the general rule in Greek grammar is for the gender and number of a relative pronoun to be the same as its antecedent (Mounce, 1993, p. 111), then some extenuating linguistic circumstance, special idiomatic use, or other mitigating factor would need to be demonstrated to justify linking “that” to “faith.” If such reasonable justification cannot be made, then one is compelled to continue studying the passage in order to know assuredly what “that” gift of God is.
When no clear antecedent is found within a text, Greek scholar William Mounce wisely recommends that the Bible student study the context of the passage in question in order to help determine to what a relative pronoun (like “that”) is referring (1993, p. 111). The overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians is man’s salvation found in Christ.
“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph_1:7).
The heavenly “inheritance” is found in Christ (Eph_1:11).
After believing in the good news of salvation through Christ, the Ephesians were “sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise” (Eph_1:13).
Sinners are made “alive with Christ” and saved “by grace” (Eph_2:5).
Sinners are brought near to God “by the blood of Christ” (Eph_2:13).
Paul became a servant of Christ “according to the gift of the grace of God…by the effective working of His power” (Eph_3:7).

Not only is the theme of salvation the overall context of the first three chapters of Ephesians, but the immediate context of Eph_2:8-9 is of salvation, not of faith. Paul is talking about HOW A PERSON IS SAVED. The main idea of the sentence is found in the verb phrase "you have been saved" G4982. How is a person saved? Eph_2:8-9 answers this key question.

Salvation is by grace.
Salvation is through faith.
Salvation is not of yourselves.
Salvation is the GIFT OF GOD.
Salvation is not of works.

Paul is not giving a dissertation on faith, but he is giving a brief dissertation on salvation. SALVATION is his main subject. Faith is mentioned because you cannot answer the question "HOW IS A PERSON SAVED?" without mentioning faith. A person is saved by believing on the Lord Jesus Christ (Act_16:31). God's gracious gift of salvation must be personally received, and it is received by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. But the main thing that Paul is talking about in these two verses is salvation, not faith
A sinner receives salvation through obedient faith. The main focus of Paul’s message in Eph_2:8-9 was salvation (the living “water that springs up into everlasting life”—cf. Joh_4:14), not the mode of salvation.
Faith is not a direct gift from God given to some but not others. Rather, as Paul wrote to the church at Rome, “faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God” (Rom_10:17). Faith in Christ as the Son of God is only found in those who have first heard the Word of God, and then believed (cf. Joh_20:31).
Mounce, William D. (1993), Basics of Biblical Greek (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan).

Salvation is the gift not faith. It is only your theology that requires that. Your theology does not agree with the bible.

 

Not true at all Men are saved by Jesus Christ. after all He is our Savior
MB

 

So you went from faith before you were saved to being saved before you have faith. Strange since that is not how the bible puts it.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Note how the bible has it. I think you should rethink what you believe. Calvinism seems to disagree with the bible don't you think.

 

You exaggerate. We are saved by grace through faith as in Eph. 2:8 There is nothing in Calvinism that says we are saved by grace alone. There is no grace unless there is faith first. They go hand in hand Neither can save with out the other. Did Christ save the Pharisee's? They were definitely elect. No! He didn't save them because they rejected Him they did not believe in Him Most Jews rejected Him. even the elect.If Calvinism is true all the elect would be saved but they aren't
MB

 

I went from believing that Scripture taught faith before salvation,
to believing that it teaches Him saving people before ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ) they come to their belief ( Ephesians 1:13 ).

He has chosen them, exactly as the Scripture lays out in Ephesians 1, before the foundation of the world.
They are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 )...not a product of a cooperative effort.

Respectfully,
That is exactly how the Bible teaches that people believe on Christ...
because the Lord moves upon a person, and they then respond in belief of His every word.

To me, you have it the other way around and are understanding ( and teaching others ) that a person's salvation and favor with God are rewards gained by the merit of placing their trust in His Son,
not unmerited gifts given to them freely by God, whom they love because He first loved them ( 1 John 4:19 ).

This violates Romans 4:4, making God a debtor to do the will of men,
and violates Romans 11:5-6, mixing our efforts as sinful men in with His holy work of choosing someone and causing them to approach Him ( Psalms 65:4 ) by His gracious act of the new birth.

It saddens me that you are unable to see it now,
but perhaps someday you will, by His grace.

 

Amen.
But my question to you is, why are you looking at it ( or apparently looking at it ) as a formula?

It's not a method that one uses to "get saved", my friend.
One cannot perform a set of acts in order to gain God's favor...

That would be seeking to please God by our works, which we cannot, and never could, do.

That's why even the ability and privilege to believe and confess are given to us by God ( Philippians 1:29 )...
Because they are not products of a rebellious heart that God has never changed.

 

Again I say, "Amen".
However, from other Scriptures I clearly see that, like Lydia, God must open the heart ( Acts of the Apostles 16:14 ) for us to even hear and obey His words...

It is from that opened heart that God's elect ( the ones in verse 8 ,His precious children ), believe unto righteousness, and they then, with the mouth, confess Christ as Saviour and Lord of all.
Because the word is near them...in their hearts and in their minds:

" But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;" ( Romans 10:8 ).

Have you not read what Paul told us in the prior chapters ( Romans 8:28-30, Romans 9:13-24 ), why a person believes?
Have you not read that no man can come to Him, unless the Father draws them ( John 6:44 )?
That no man can come to Christ unless it is given to them of the Father to do so ( John 6:65 )?
That Jesus Christ only saves those who have been given to Him by His Father ( John 17:2 )?
That one must be a sheep to believe, as John 10:26-27 lays out?

I think you've missed the reasons why anyone calls upon the name of the Lord at all...
It's because they are His, and He has saved them.

Romans 10 tells us what God's people do when confronted with His words, sir...
it does not give unbelievers a "formula" by which they can approach the Lord and gain something from His hands.

 

Note how the Lord Himself puts it:

" Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." ( John 8:42-47 )

In the above, the Lord Jesus is telling the unbelieving Jews why they do not love Him and believe His words.
Because they are of their father the devil, and not of God.
He that is "of God" ( His elect, Christ's sheep and the ones given to Him by His Father in the preceding chapters like John 6 ) are the ones who receive His words....the ones who are not His, reject Him and His words.

Another example:
" And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." ( Acts of the Apostles 13:48 ).

As many as were ordained to eternal life, believed...
Not all who heard the word of God.
The same is true today.
Vast multitudes of people who hear the word of God, turn their ears away from it.

But His people still hear and believe them.

 

I urge you to study the Scriptures deeply, my friend.

The reasons why people believe in their hearts and confess Christ with their mouths, are all there.
The contents of Romans 10 cannot and should not be disconnected from any other thing that God says, and that is what I see you doing...
Using a piece of what God's word says, out of context, to demonstrate how one can "get saved".

Paul has told us why people have believed on Christ in the preceding chapters, and what their condition was before the Lord called them out of darkness and into the light...Please see Romans 1, Romans 2, and Romans 3.

He has told us why people have believed in other epistles, and it all comes together to prove one thing:

Salvation and eternal life are gifts that cannot be earned in any way, shape or form.
They are given to men and women by a God that has loved them from before the foundation of the world, when He chose them and gave them to His Son.