The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

Allan,

In this debate as you well know, it is always said by freewillers.."Dead does not mean dead"....when in fact it does. Dead means "unable to respond". You do a word study and you will see that each time the word is used, one can replace it with unable to respond. I will tell you right now the hardest fit will be..Dead to sins. But when you read what paul says in context, it will read...if you walk in the Spirit as you should, then you will be unable to respond to sin. All other times the word is used, "unable to respond" fits like a glove. This is also why "sleep" is used in the Bible. In a state a sleep, you do not respend. One must awake 1st.

In this debate we always see Lazarus brought up. Lazarus body was unable to respond. Lazarus spirit as all spirits lives on. Before our natural death, our bodies has the ability to open our mouth and cry out to God for salvation. However we are spiritual Inability (dead) unless God awakens our soul, in order to do so. This awaking is the moment before salvation when we understand. The word hearing in the Bible, when used in the context of the gospel means understanding. After we understand..and by this I mean not only understand the message, but also understand our need for salvation, for this is part of the awakening, we then believe and this is salvation.

Now back to the bones and Lazarus. In the bones case the text is clear. The bones were natural inable to respond. It would also seem that the spirit was inable to respond or dead. The bones were 1st given the abilty spiritual to hear. But still the bones had no natural ablilty to come alive. The next verse does this for the bones.

Lazarus body had no natural ability to live. It was dead. It could not respond. His spirit lived on. Christ changed this when he said Lazarus come forth. In this case, Lazarus was spiritual able and his body was made able when Christ told him to come. This would be the case if Lazarus was a believer, for his spirit was alive to God. If Lazarus was not a believer, one would have to think the same thing happened to Lazarus that happen to the dry bones.


In Christ...James

 

You didn't address me but I will at least say this much.

When it says "Let the dead bury the dead" they can do something for sure.

 

Wrong, wrong. Faith does matter because faith is necessary for savlation. Life is what brings the faith.

The hardening of Pharaoh's heart was to show God's glory through increased judgment on Pharaoh. Let's see a little biblical understanding here.

 

Hold on a minute. Acording to James' posts above, dead means "unable to respond". If this is the case with Pharaoh, he would be "unable to respond" to God hardening his heart UNLESS he is given life! This has nothing to do with biblical understanding, but you guys' having your cake and eating it too.

 

I have never said dead does not mean dead, but I sure haven't said dead means unable to respond!

Dead
DEAD,
1. Deprived or destitute of life; that state of a being, animal or vegetable, in which the organs of motion and life have ceased to perform their functions, and have become incapable of performing them, or of being restored to a state of activity.
The men are dead who sought thy life. Exo 4.
It is sometimes followed by of before the cause of death; as, dead of hunger, or of a fever.
2. Having never had life, or having been deprived of vital action before birth; as, the child was born dead.
3. Without life; inanimate.
All, all but truth, drops dead-born from the press.
4. Without vegetable life; as a dead tree.
5. Imitating death; deep or sound; as a dead sleep.
6. Perfectly still; motionless as death; as a dead calm; a dead weight.
7. Empty; vacant; not enlivened by variety; as a dead void space; a dead plain.
We say also, a dead level, for a perfectly level surface.
8. Unemployed; useless; unprofitable. A man's faculties may lie dead, or his goods remain dead on his hands. So dead capital or stock is that which produces no profit.
9. Dull; inactive; as a dead sale of commodities.
10. Dull; gloomy; still; not enlivened; as a dead winter; a dead season.
11. Still; deep; obscure; as the dead darkness of the night.
12. Dull; not lively; not resembling life; as the dead coloring of a piece; a dead eye.
13. Dull; heavy; as a dead sound.
14. Dull; frigid; lifeless; cold; not animated; not affecting; used of prayer.
15. Tasteless; vapid; spiritless; used of liquors.
16. Uninhabited; as dead walls.
17. Dull; without natural force or efficacy; not lively or brisk; as a dead fire.
18. In a state of spiritual death; void of grace; lying under the power of sin.
19. Impotent; unable to procreate.
20. Decayed in grace.
Thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Rev 3.
21. Not proceeding from spiritual life; not producing good works; as, faith without works is dead. James 2.
22. Proceeding from corrupt nature, not from spiritual life or a gracious principle; as dead works. Heb 9:14.
23. In law, cut off from the rights of a citizen: deprived of power of enjoying the rights of property; as one banished or becoming a monk is civilly dead.
Dead language, a language which is no longer spoken or in common use by a people, and known only in writings; as the Hebrew, Greek and Latin.
Dead rising or rising line, the parts of a ship's floor or bottom throughout her length, where the floor timber is terminated on the lower futtock.
DEAD, n. ded.
1. The dead signifies dead men.
Ye shall not make cuttings for the dead. Lev 19.
2. The state of the dead; or death.
This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead. Mat 14.
DEAD, n. ded. The time when there is a remarkable stillness or gloom; depth; as in the midst of winter or of night, are familiar expressions.
DEAD, v.i. ded. To lose life or force.
DEAD, v.t. ded. To deprive of life, force or vigor.
DEAD'-DOING, a. Destructive; killing.

 

You are confused (again). The hardening was not to prevent him from responding positively, but to increase the judgment and the opportunity for God to show his power.

As far as dead being "unable to respond," that is true. A spiritually dead person is unable to respond positively to the message of Christ. They will always reject.

Why is that confusing to you?

 

Where you get all this stuff?

Boy! we in trouble in the resurrection then. It will go on without us.

 

The only thing confusing me is your double speak. A spiritually dead person is unable to respond positively...but a spiritually dead person can reject? I thought DEAD MEANS DEAD! A dead person cannot respond OR reject anything!

As far as God hardening Pharaoh's heart, you imply God needed to do so in order to increase judgement and for the opportunity to show His power. God is sovereign and needs NOTHING...no opportunities whatsoever to increase judgement and show His power. Who is limiting God's sovereignty, now? I will wait for more double speak...

 

For someone who professes to know Calvinism, you sure put on a good front of not knowing much. Why do you do that? If you really know, then why do you act surprised by this stuff?

No I didn't. God back and read. I said God did it. I did not say anything about needing. God doesn't "need" to do anything.

You haven't gotten any yet, so it will be hard to wait for "more." Perhaps if you would learn a little, you would at least understand these things.

 

Bob. Don't you believe that in the resurrection, we will have to be given life 1st before we rise? How do you see this exactly?

 

Though I see your drive for this. You have to admit that God did say that this hardening was done to show His power, that is, done, for the purpose of displaying His power.

 

I just giving you scripture jne;


John, chapter 5


"28": Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

 

OK. So, we know by this text, that the dead will hear his voice. The question is, where does their hearing come from? Within themselves, or by his authority & power. No matter what we stand on, I think we can agree that it is definitely by his power & not their own.

 

agree on that for sure. Have you ever read our articles of faith?

 

Don't think so, are they in the link on your signature?

 

Yes..............

 

I'll check them out.

 

Hello Bob,

Bob...you can post this as many times as you want, and it will still have nothing to do with hearing the gospel. The verses before this is speaks of hearing the gospel of salvation (understanding and believeing) and it is CLEAR that men that HEAR also have live (are saved into new life).

This is hearing the gospel of salvation. Notice all they that HEAR shall live. Do all men that you preach to, go to heaven? Now notice the small word in the next verse.."also". This changes the subject from salvation to judgment/resurrection. At the resurrection ALL men will come forth.

Understand?

 

2 Peter 1:2-3 Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue​