The CALL, Is there One Call to All or not

OK...now I understand how it works. In order to be Arminian, once you see a verse that seems to point to this view point....one must forget about the rest of the Bible. Now I see how one can be Arminian.

just kidding with ya Allan

 

You ever hear of hearing spiritually James?

I sure do James, just didn't know you believed that they must hear first, thanks.

One thing you have admitted on here James is that you were dead also and now you quote a scripture where you heared the "call" of the Lord. Amen,

 

I could not agree with you more Bob on the spiritual ear. And hearing spiritually, the only difference between us on this issue I think, is, that I believe that that spiritual ear only hears by God's power, I.E. The spirit is dead when God calls & He by the power of the Spirit of God gives that spirit life. You see a key difference between our spirit & the Spirit of God. I have not seen many make this distinction, but I agree that our inner man, so to speak, is what hears. I just do not believe our inner man hears God until the Spirit of God quickens the inner man.

 

Hello Bob,

Of course Bob. This is what we have been talking about all along. When the Bible says unsaved are dead, it means they are spiritually dead. When the Bible says the unsaved are blind, it means they are spiritually blind to the truth. When the Bible says the unsaved man can not hear, it means they cannot understand the meaning and or do not understand they have a need.

I have always said this. Hear, not just with the ears, but hear spiritually. Look back over this thread and many other threads and see what I have said. Remember the.."how shall they hear without a preacher?" Was this not me that held this all along?

Admitted? When have I said anything but this?? I was not born saved. You were not born saved. No one is. All must believe. I'm not sure why you would say this.



In Christ...James

 

Wonder why it say to annoint thy eyes with eye salve that thou mayest see.

No Sir; You have always said the dead can't do anything.

I simply said it because you said the dead can't do anything and that included you also and jne;

 

Hello Bob,

The context tells us Bob

Yes Bob...and still do...

Until God makes us able. Spiritually dead means one is controled by sin. They cannot believe, for they do not understand spiritually their need of God and nor can they even spiritually understand the gospel. As the Holy Spirit works on their heart they then know of their need and understand. This is the awaken needed to believe. Until they understand the gospel, they cannot believe the gospel. It is God that brings this understanding, though the work and power of the Holy Spirit. The dead man cannot believe, for the dead mean does not understand. Understand..(awakening) comes before believeing. I do not see how anyone can say other wise. This is what I hold..and always have held.

and for good reason...for they cannot.


In Christ....James

 

Hello Allan,

I'll be lazy too....

Ever heard of Gill?

In Christ....James

 

Here you are trying to have it both ways James.

Again both ways

 

Bob,


Please tell me how a person believes before he has understanding. Thanks.

 

James,

This is what I believe. There was no way I would have ever been saved if it were not for the word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit. I have no way of knowing if the call was resistable or not. I did resist for some time, but eventually surrendered. So it is hard to say. But, we see in Acts 7:51 some did "always resist the Holy Ghost".

 

I don't believe he can James. I have always said the Spirit of God Strives with all men.

Job 32:8But [there is] a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

 

Amen brother..and we were all in that same boat before God worked in our heart.

As to Acts 7....

I can understand why you say this. Let me just point out one thing and get your input. Do you think that he is saying that the "uncircumcised in heart and ears"...or those in that state....those blinded to the truth because of sin....those that can not hear/spiritually understand the gospel. That these are the ones that will ALWAYS resist?

 

to your statement...
So then spiritually understand of the gospel/ spiritually understand ones need for God comes 1st. right?



the verse....
hold on Bob.

Just to be clear. Is this your proof verse? What are you saying this verse means?

 

I didn't see anything in the OP that addressed the 1-to-1 link between those who are called and those who are justified, which was really my point. You did say this in the OP: "God foreknew who would believe DUE to His knowing there would be a Fall"

The problem I have with that is that the Bible does not say "those He foreknew would believe He predestinated ..." I don't think you can justify that addition, but I'm listening if you want to try.

Not sure why it matters. I don't see any Scriptural justification for saying that God decreed anything in response or reaction to anything that any creature would do. God does act in response to people's acts ("if my people ... then I ...") but I do not see any justification for saying that the decrees work that way.

"I tell you, if [we] were silent, the very stones would cry out." If God did not spare Christ then why would He withhold the means of faith? The elect will be saved by whatever means necessary.

I wasn't really trying to show it to you. I was only suggesting that you see whether it is in there or not. I'm not trying to make a Calvinist out of you.

You may think that I am only bringing my presuppositions into this passage if you like, but the fact is that John 17 is one of the reasons that I became a Calvinist. I really didn't want to find the particularity of Jesus' work there, much less the certainty that those particular people would wind up saved no matter what else happened, but I could not escape either of those ideas in this prayer. So, here I am.

 

They must be uncircumcised in heart and ears because of their prideful resistence to the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, if they were not able to hear the things of the Holy Spirit, because they are dead to the Holy Spirit, how could they be resisting the Holy Spirit?

 

That all men have that Spirit teaching them right from wrong James and striving with them.

I think if you read our articles of faith it would help you to understand what I believe James.

 

Hello Allan,

Seeing "whatever's" post above, reminded me that I wanted to address this little bit from your last reply.

This word (Foreknowing) is so often misused, it is a shame. Many have addressed this before, but it has been a while. So lets look close at your statement.

1) What does God know?
2) When did He knew what He knows?
3) Will the things that God knews about the future ever change?*

* A note to number 3. In other words...If God knows I will be in a house fire on Dec 23rd of 2008 at 1:23 am, and God has known this from the time that the world was made, will this event happen to me?


In Christ...James

 

Sorry to be a pain...Just to make sure.

The word spirit in Job 32:8...you feel this is "Holy Spirit" the 3rd person of the Godhead?

and...you feel also that this passage is talking about God giving understanding...the understanding in which we have been talking about...as in toward salvation?

This is how you see this?