The Danger of the Denial of the Pre-Trib Translation (Rapture) of the Church of Jesus Christ

[JD731]

Don't. Because that has not happened.

Did you know that Re 19 comes before Re 20?

This scene is in heaven before the return to earth.
Re 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

Someone besides the bride is invited to the wedding. We have been given a list in the NT scriptures.

 

[37818]

Is that happening at same time, as part of the same second coming event?

There is only the one second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

 

[37818]

Did you know that Re 19 comes before Re 20?

In presentation, chapter 19 is before a chapter 20. How it is written.

 

[JD731]

There is only the one second appearing, Hebrews 9:28.

You are one seriously stubborn dude. I can see you don't care about any mysteries of God. But you are right about the appearing of God. This is a one time thing.

Appearing is sight and men can see him.

Look at this;

Re 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him (how many eyes shall see him?), and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth (how many kindreds of the earth?) shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This is how one defines "appearing.

Nothing about sounds in in Re 19. You should read it because there is much to see. He is visible to all.

But in 1 Thess there is nothing to see but plenty to hear.

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Those who are not saved will not hear the sounds clearly that day. They certainly will not see him. I am reminded of the following;

Joh 12:28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

 

[37818]

You are one seriously stubborn dude. I can see you don't care about any mysteries of God. But you are right about the appearing of God. This is a one time thing.

The ONLY Biblical Scripture which explicitly says "second" appearing is Hebrews 9:28. A second appearing can only occur once.

 

[JD731]

In presentation, chapter 19 is before a chapter 20. How it is written.

What does that even mean? That all historians can be chronological but God? Prophecy is history written in advance, I am told.

I do appreciate the discussion on Bible issues with folks, like the doctrines of the church of Jesus Christ, of which I am a member by his grace. But I am sad to see men with brilliant minds willingly set logic and reason aside to believe doctrines that are not true. You, for instance, believe in a post trib rapture of the church of Jesus Christ, you say, even when you cannot defend such a doctrine with a reasonable and scriptural argument, or at least you are unwilling to, and if I understand you correctly you reject a thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth even after you read plain and easy to understand words saying as much in Re 20. Some verses you believe are literal like Re 20:4.

But wait, you only believe part of Re 20:4 is literal, the resurrection part but you do not believe the thrones and reigning for a thousand years or Satan in the bottomless pit. My personal descrption for this is "sliding hermeneutics." If something in the text advances your preconceptions you latch on to it and if not you can always make it figurative and spiritual.

This practice makes me wonder if you believe in the resurrection of the unjust (Jn 5:25) which is the second resurrection in this chapter with one thousand years between. Why would anyone believe and fear this? Most everything else in this chapter has been ruled by modern Christians as not acually true, why would this resurrection be true?

The problem I believe, is that the church of Jesus Christ, with it's unique and literal promises and doctrines and predestination to glory at it's translation from earth to heaven, has been eliminated in the thinking of denominational Christianity and it has done great harm. It has caused unbelief in denominational Christianity.

Now, I do not know for sure what you believe because your general MO is just pick out a verse or two without context and post them for some purpose known only to you and so if I misrepresent what you believe you can forgive me. I have tried to accurately understand based on your one liners.

I could not help from noticing that chapter 20 began with a conjunction, "and." I learned a long time ago the function of a conjuction If the previous thoughts were tied together as a chronological series of events then the conjunction continued that series chronologically. It is logical and reasonable to do so, especially in the absence of any language that would modify these events into a type or figure of something else. I could not find any such language.

So, my conclusion is the church is coming back to earth with Christ, having been translated before the tribulation just like the apostle Paul said it would be and then these who were killed during the tribulation who were saved will be resurrected from the dead to reign on earth with Christ for one thousand years.

None of you men have given me enough reason to doubt it.

 

[37818]

What does that even mean? That all historians can be chronological but God? Prophecy is history written in advance, I am told.

No. The book of Revelation gives parallel events. Revelation 6:17, For the great day of his wrath is come . . . .
Revelation 11:18, . . . and thy wrath is come, . . .
Revelation 14:10, . . . The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God . . . .

 

[JesusFan]

What does that even mean? That all historians can be chronological but God? Prophecy is history written in advance, I am told.

I do appreciate the discussion on Bible issues with folks, like the doctrines of the church of Jesus Christ, of which I am a member by his grace. But I am sad to see men with brilliant minds willingly set logic and reason aside to believe doctrines that are not true. You, for instance, believe in a post trib rapture of the church of Jesus Christ, you say, even when you cannot defend such a doctrine with a reasonable and scriptural argument, or at least you are unwilling to, and if I understand you correctly you reject a thousand year reign of Jesus Christ on the earth even after you read plain and easy to understand words saying as much in Re 20. Some verses you believe are literal like Re 20:4.

But wait, you only believe part of Re 20:4 is literal, the resurrection part but you do not believe the thrones and reigning for a thousand years or Satan in the bottomless pit. My personal descrption for this is "sliding hermeneutics." If something in the text advances your preconceptions you latch on to it and if not you can always make it figurative and spiritual.

This practice makes me wonder if you believe in the resurrection of the unjust (Jn 5:25) which is the second resurrection in this chapter with one thousand years between. Why would anyone believe and fear this? Most everything else in this chapter has been ruled by modern Christians as not acually true, why would this resurrection be true?

The problem I believe, is that the church of Jesus Christ, with it's unique and literal promises and doctrines and predestination to glory at it's translation from earth to heaven, has been eliminated in the thinking of denominational Christianity and it has done great harm. It has caused unbelief in denominational Christianity.

Now, I do not know for sure what you believe because your general MO is just pick out a verse or two without context and post them for some purpose known only to you and so if I misrepresent what you believe you can forgive me. I have tried to accurately understand based on your one liners.

I could not help from noticing that chapter 20 began with a conjunction, "and." I learned a long time ago the function of a conjuction If the previous thoughts were tied together as a chronological series of events then the conjunction continued that series chronologically. It is logical and reasonable to do so, especially in the absence of any language that would modify these events into a type or figure of something else. I could not find any such language.

So, my conclusion is the church is coming back to earth with Christ, having been translated before the tribulation just like the apostle Paul said it would be and then these who were killed during the tribulation who were saved will be resurrected from the dead to reign on earth with Christ for one thousand years.

None of you men have given me enough reason to doubt it.

God could also have the church "raptured" and taken up when th witnesses are physically resurrected after death, or end great tribulation when Lord Jesus returns as then Paul stated souls and bodies will be reunited