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The Eternal Purpose of Christ PT 3

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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
But the Roman Centurion and the Samaritan came to Him in contrition.
I don't see any contrition. What were they contrite about?
Read about how the Centurions treated their slaves. They could kill them without reaping any repercussions. Yet this Centurion loved his slave. He had even helped to build the Jews' synagogue. He had sent several Jews' unto Jesus wanting to have Him heal his servant. Matthew 8 states he went unto Jesus and Luke 7 states he sent some Jews, so I do not truly understand the difference these two writers made. As this story unfolds, we can read When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. “Lord,” he said, “my servant lies at home paralyzed, suffering terribly.” Jesus said to him, “Shall I come and heal him?” The centurion replied, “Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to my servant, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.” When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, “Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”[Matt. 8:5-12] All that that Centurion said was not common for them to say. They, according to what info I could find about them, treated them horribly. The word used was 'pais' and that also had a horrible rendering. Some have tried to say the Centurion's slave was his s3x slave, but I do not believe that to be the case. But according to the blue letter bible, it means boy or girl, child, infant, slave, servant, attendant. I think they use Vine's.
At the height of the time of slavery in the 1700's, in America, some of the slave-owners were very cruel and couldn't care less about the value of human life. But some displayed love and kindness. By the end of the civil war many of the slave-owners that displayed that love and kindness were rewarded the same by their slaves wanting to remain, now as their servants, for the provision of room and board and protection.
The same was true in the first century. Not all centurions were as exceptional as this one would travel so far on behalf of his slave. Others would treat him as a piece of human flesh and let him rot, so to speak, not caring a whit about a slave. This man cared before he even met Christ. He was different. Not all people are the same. I am sure that in your experience with people you have found that.

This Centurion and Samaritan, who were outside of Jesus' target audience, the Jews, saw Him for who He was. Heard His words for what they meant. They had to have had 'ears to hear with.' This was an indictment to the Jews' continual unbelief and rebellion towards God. God has sent His Son unto them, yet they fail to believe. This was a fulfilling of “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit.[Matt. 21:43] MacArthur had stated in one of his sermons that this Centurion was saved. I am having a hard time finding that quote, though. MacArthur mentioned that Capernaum was not very far from where Christ gave His 'Sermon on the Mount', in fact, one could walk there. Here is what MacArthur stated Now if you remember the sermon, you will remember that Jesus described a true disciple in some very clear terms. A true disciple, true believer, child of God, member of the Kingdom was humble, repentant over sin, loved even his enemies with a supernatural love, was generous, was merciful, compassionate, did good, was righteous, was devoted to the Lord and obedient. And he is the one who built his house on the rock and survives the judgment. This Centurion was highly favored amongst the Jews. They even said “This man deserves to have you do this, because he loves our nation and has built our synagogue.”[Lu 7:4b-5] The Jews hated anyone not a Jew, but they apparently loved him...even bragged about him to Jesus. He was the Jews' enemy, yet he loved them.
MacArthur is obviously wrong. There are many philanthropic people in high positions that do good things for others. Bill Gates contributes millions to relieve the poor in India. Warren Buffet also contributes millions to charitable organizations. Many billionaires do. Just because they are rich doesn't mean they don't do good with their wealth.
The Centurion spent his money on the society in which he lived and in which it would do him the most good. He was benevolent. MacArthur says he had "supernatural love" without any evidence. Doing good to another (like Mother Teresa did) is not a means of salvation nor a way to judge salvation.

The only point worth pondering is the one where the Centurion confesses his "unworthiness." However that may be because he recognizes that he is a Roman in the midst of the Jewish nation, and they (the Jews) consider all Gentiles as dogs. Therefore, he knew he was unworthy in their sight.

Yes. But still, it all boils down to why they believed. It was not just the fact that they saw his son's healing. If that were the case, no one who witnessed Lazarus' resurrection would have failed to believe. It is more than just seeing the miracles, it is more than just hearing His words(many heard and died lost), it was more than talking to Him. It is about the efficacious works of faith wrought upon the heart.
Look at the facts.
Joh 4:46 So Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee, where he made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman, whose son was sick at Capernaum.
Joh 4:47 When he heard that Jesus was come out of Judaea into Galilee, he went unto him, and besought him that he would come down, and heal his son: for he was at the point of death
Joh 4:49 The nobleman saith unto him, Sir, come down ere my child die.
Joh 4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.

He believed. He had faith. He had faith that Christ could and would heal his child. This is not the faith that saves. It is faith in a man that has the ability to heal, and that is all.

Joh 4:51 And as he was now going down, his servants met him, and told him, saying, Thy son liveth.
Joh 4:52 Then enquired he of them the hour when he began to amend. And they said unto him, Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him.
Joh 4:53 So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

--A whole day had passed according to verse 52. His servants inform him that his child had been healed. He marks the time. The result is that not only does he believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God, but so does his whole household. This is clearly salvation.
There is no clear account of salvation in Luke 7 as there is here. What you have with the centurion is a man that has found good favor with the Jews by doing good works. He was able to ask the Jews to ask Jesus on his behalf to heal his daughter and then he came in person to ask Jesus. This marked his character, the outstanding character of an intelligent and wise soldier, not necessarily of a saved man.

Again, you said grace is grace, but not all grace saves. And you also said faith is faith, yet not all faith saves. People have faith in themselves to do a job, but that does not save. You can be gracious to your wife, and you better be...:D...but that does not save, either. You can have faith in your parents, but that does not save. You can have faith a chair will hold you, but that does not save. It is 'according to your faith' as it states in Heb. 12:2 that God is the Pioneer/Author and Perfecter/Finisher of our faith. To author a book means you created it. For God to Author our faith, He placed it within us. But you will disagree, so I digress.
Faith in Christ as faith healer will not save. That was true of the centurion. We do not know for sure if he got saved. The record doesn't say.
But the record does say that the nobleman came to a "saving faith" (as you would use the term) in Christ. He did so later, not at the time that he came to Christ having faith that he could heal his child.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DHK, let me shown you what I think the biblical position is. Again, I am 100% sure you will disagree with it, but I want to show you what I believe.


This goes way deeper than the ears and eyes of mankind, as this problem of receiving the gospel of Christ is within the hearts of sinners. For the heart is The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?[Jer. 17:9] It is with the heart that For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified.[Rom. 10:10a] Then we can also find A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.[Lu. 6:45] And also You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.[Matt. 12:34] Sinners have wicked, sin-filled, sin-hardened, rebellious hearts. They oppose God, and can not love Him in the manner the bible says to love Him as Jesus stated He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”[Lu. 10:27] Sinners can not love God with all their heart when it is sin-hardened. This is where the heart transplantation takes place such as I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh,[Ez. 11:19 and furthermore I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; l remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.[Ez. 36:26] Then Christ said something that is very interesting when He stated Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.[Matt. 7:17-20] John the Baptist had stated something very similar when he stated The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.[Matt. 3:10] Evil trees can only produce bad/corrupt/evil fruit. That is a picture of sinners in their unregenerate state, mon ami. They have evil hearts and can not produce good fruits. If you study this out, our fruits are our works that we do. Our works are the evidence of who we are working for. If we are producing evil fruit then we are sinners, in an unregenerate state. If we are producing good fruit, then there is evidence of Christ working in our lives.

In this wicked, sin-hardened, sin-filled, rebellious heart, they can not believe. Why? As Jesus told the parable of the seed sower in Matthew 13 only one ground received the seed that produced fruit. The second soil had nothing for the seed to take root upon and it withered away and bore no fruit. Then let us back up to what the Psalmist wrote when he wrote Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither—whatever they do prospers.[Psa. 1:1-3] Trees symbolize mankind in several different places and even was symbolic of Christ as was the Tree of Life.

Sinners can not do anything pleasing unto the Lord. They can love their family, friends, classmates, pets, but that is a carnal, fleshly love. It takes being born of God to be born of that divine love, which is the only love that can truly love God. As John the Revelator wrote Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.[1 Jn 4:7] As John wrote everyone that loves has been born(already done and which causes) of love loves God and knows God. I will close with Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] As he plainly wrote, those who believe is born(already an accomplished work wrought upon their heart) of God.

Once regeneration has taken place, the new heart and Spirit already implanted, faith and repentance is exercised. That is why those who are saved, the Roman Centurion and the Samaritan leper, had to have those 'ears to hear with' to truly realize that Christ was/is the Messiah.
 
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Protestant

Well-Known Member
Doing good to another (like Mother Teresa did)

Mother Teresa was a God-hating, superstitious idolater who feigned selflessness and humility while gladly receiving the money and praise of the world.

Today she is awaiting the second death in the Lake of Fire, along with the thousands of Hindus she ‘helped’ to die while reciting the Rosary with clutched crucifix.

images
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Mother Teresa was a God-hating, superstitious idolater who feigned selflessness and humility while gladly receiving the money and praise of the world.

Today she is awaiting the second death in the Lake of Fire, along with the thousands of Hindus she ‘helped’ to die while reciting the Rosary with clutched crucifix.
I expected that my reference to her would evoke a response from you. That doesn't matter to me. She had faith.
The demons have faith.
Adam and Eve though they had sinned and died (spiritually) had faith.
Ten lepers had faith, but only one was saved.
The Roman Centurion had faith, more than any other in Israel, but was not saved.
Balaam's donkey had faith (he could see the angel when Balaam couldn't), and believed its power to block its way.
Need I say more.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
DHK, let me shown you what I think the biblical position is. Again, I am 100% sure you will disagree with it, but I want to show you what I believe.


This goes way deeper than the ears and eyes of mankind, as this problem of receiving the gospel of Christ is within the hearts of sinners. For the heart is The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?[Jer. 17:9] It is with the heart that For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified.[Rom. 10:10a] Then we can also find A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.[Lu. 6:45] And also You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.[Matt. 12:34] Sinners have wicked, sin-filled, sin-hardened, rebellious hearts. They oppose God, and can not love Him in the manner the bible says to love Him as Jesus stated He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”[Lu. 10:27] Sinners can not love God with all their heart when it is sin-hardened. This is where the heart transplantation takes place such as I will give them an undivided heart and put a new spirit in them; I will remove from them their heart of stone and give them a heart of flesh,[Ez. 11:19 and furthermore I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; l remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.[Ez. 36:26] Then Christ said something that is very interesting when He stated Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.[Matt. 7:17-20] John the Baptist had stated something very similar when he stated The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.[Matt. 3:10] Evil trees can only produce bad/corrupt/evil fruit. That is a picture of sinners in their unregenerate state, mon ami. They have evil hearts and can not produce good fruits. If you study this out, our fruits are our works that we do. Our works are the evidence of who we are working for. If we are producing evil fruit then we are sinners, in an unregenerate state. If we are producing good fruit, then there is evidence of Christ working in our lives.

In this wicked, sin-hardened, sin-filled, rebellious heart, they can not believe. Why? As Jesus told the parable of the seed sower in Matthew 13 only one ground received the seed that produced fruit. The second soil had nothing for the seed to take root upon and it withered away and bore no fruit. Then let us back up to what the Psalmist wrote when he wrote Blessed is the one who does not walk in step with the wicked or stand in the way that sinners take or sit in the company of mockers, but whose delight is in the law of the Lord, and who meditates on his law day and night. That person is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in season and whose leaf does not wither—whatever they do prospers.[Psa. 1:1-3] Trees symbolize mankind in several different places and even was symbolic of Christ as was the Tree of Life.

Sinners can not do anything pleasing unto the Lord. They can love their family, friends, classmates, pets, but that is a carnal, fleshly love. It takes being born of God to be born of that divine love, which is the only love that can truly love God. As John the Revelator wrote Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.[1 Jn 4:7] As John wrote everyone that loves has been born(already done and which causes) of love loves God and knows God. I will close with Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] As he plainly wrote, those who believe is born(already an accomplished work wrought upon their heart) of God.
I believe the basics of what you have summarized. I also believe you have backed it up with scripture taken out of context.
The scripture from Ezekiel is speaking about Israel and is largely prophetic and does not apply to us. It is not speaking of the new birth and therefore wrongly applied.
In Mat 7 "By their fruit you shall know them. Who? The "them" are false prophets, false teachers. He is not speaking of the unregenerate in general. That entire passage, quite a lengthy one, is teaching the disciples on how to recognize the false teaching of false prophets. "Their fruit" is their false doctrine.
Taking scripture out of context to prove your point is something I don't agree with. But I agree essentially with what you are saving. Man is a sinner, separated from God by his sin. He needs to be reconciled to God. In his present state the "good works" that he does do not merit anything toward salvation, for salvation is all of God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself."

You concluded:
I will close with Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] As he plainly wrote, those who believe is born(already an accomplished work wrought upon their heart) of God.
--I agree with this, though I am not sure what you mean by the very last statement.
Once regeneration has taken place, the new heart and Spirit already implanted, faith and repentance is exercised.
According to what you just said, "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Believing precedes the new birth. That is what you just wrote.
That is why those who are saved, the Roman Centurion and the Samaritan leper, had to have those 'ears to hear with' to truly realize that Christ was/is the Messiah.
Never does regeneration precede faith. Nowhere does the Bible teach that.
You didn't teach that; you just read it into the Scripture. You put your Calvinism ahead of the Bible.

What do you think it means when it says:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
After he believed he was both regenerated and saved. They take place simultaneously after one believes in Christ.
 

savedbymercy

New Member
I believe the basics of what you have summarized. I also believe you have backed it up with scripture taken out of context.
The scripture from Ezekiel is speaking about Israel and is largely prophetic and does not apply to us. It is not speaking of the new birth and therefore wrongly applied.
In Mat 7 "By their fruit you shall know them. Who? The "them" are false prophets, false teachers. He is not speaking of the unregenerate in general. That entire passage, quite a lengthy one, is teaching the disciples on how to recognize the false teaching of false prophets. "Their fruit" is their false doctrine.
Taking scripture out of context to prove your point is something I don't agree with. But I agree essentially with what you are saving. Man is a sinner, separated from God by his sin. He needs to be reconciled to God. In his present state the "good works" that he does do not merit anything toward salvation, for salvation is all of God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself."

You concluded:
I will close with Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] As he plainly wrote, those who believe is born(already an accomplished work wrought upon their heart) of God.
--I agree with this, though I am not sure what you mean by the very last statement.

According to what you just said, "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Believing precedes the new birth. That is what you just wrote.

Never does regeneration precede faith. Nowhere does the Bible teach that.
You didn't teach that; you just read it into the Scripture. You put your Calvinism ahead of the Bible.

What do you think it means when it says:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
After he believed he was both regenerated and saved. They take place simultaneously after one believes in Christ.
Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 and since Faith pleases God Hebrew 11:6 those in the flesh can't do it, can't have Faith in Christ!
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I believe the basics of what you have summarized.


:thumbsup:


I also believe you have backed it up with scripture taken out of context.

I knew you would. But I digress.


The scripture from Ezekiel is speaking about Israel and is largely prophetic and does not apply to us.

Well then I need to rip Ezekiel out of my bible. Listen, all scripture from Genesis 1:1-------->Revelation 22:21 is for all Christians. Any and all Christians are Jews inwardly, even those who are natural descendants of Abraham. Your dis-jointing of God's holy writ is rather mind-numbing. God has one promise with one people, the church, the bride of Christ, the believers of all time, the sheep, the elect. All of those describe one people, His people. There is one covenant God has with His children and not one for Israel and one for the believing Gentiles. The sooner you realize this, the clearer it will appear to you.

It is not speaking of the new birth and therefore wrongly applied.

A new heart and a new Spirit. You bet your sweet bippy it is speaking of the new birth.


In Mat 7 "By their fruit you shall know them. Who? The "them" are false prophets, false teachers.

False prophets, false teachers are unregenerate so the parable apply applies to them.


He is not speaking of the unregenerate in general. That entire passage, quite a lengthy one, is teaching the disciples on how to recognize the false teaching of false prophets. "Their fruit" is their false doctrine.

What makes their 'their fruit' their false doctrine? They are lost, they are unregenerate. They are false prophets espousing a false doctrine and are 'wolves sent to scatter the flock', being workers of satan. They are unregenerate. They are no different than those who died never being saved or never knowing Christ as Lord and Saviour.



Taking scripture out of context to prove your point is something I don't agree with.

Taking it out of context? Please. I am not the one who says 'when God is angry with the wicked every day' that He is not really angry, just annoyed. Then 'well, that passage applies only to Israel and does not apply to us.' Now that is taking scripture out of context, mon ami.


But I agree essentially with what you are saving.

:thumbsup:


Man is a sinner, separated from God by his sin. He needs to be reconciled to God.

YES!!!


In his present state the "good works" that he does do not merit anything toward salvation, for salvation is all of God. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself."

Yes.


You concluded:
I will close with Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] As he plainly wrote, those who believe is born(already an accomplished work wrought upon their heart) of God.
--I agree with this, though I am not sure what you mean by the very last statement.

It is a heart issue. The heart is bent towards sin and self and not righteousness and God. That is why God first has to change the heart, ergo Ezekiel 11:19 & 36:26, which applies to all believers of all time. None have been saved any other way.

According to what you just said, "Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." Believing precedes the new birth. That is what you just wrote.

So the pictures I showed you in scripture where God wrought life from death did not convince you that God first works on the dead to bring them to life before they could do anything? Look, Lazarus, the widow's son in Luke 7, Eutycus in Acts 20, the widow's son in 1 Kings 17 all show how life is first pumped into a man before he can do anything. These are pictures of regeneration.

Lazarus was physically dead and in a tomb and could do nothing to change that state. All his family could stand outside and cry 'come out' and he was unable to hear them, being physically dead. That is how sinners are dead spiritually. Their soulish man is dead in the same manner. The physically dead are dead because they are devoid of their soul. Sinners are dead because they are devoid of the Spirit of God, which is the soul's only Life Source. Spiritual death is more than just being separated from God, but being devoid of His Spirit. That is why those who truly believe are born of God. Believing shows that God has quickened them.

Never does regeneration precede faith. Nowhere does the Bible teach that.
You didn't teach that; you just read it into the Scripture. You put your Calvinism ahead of the Bible.

Yes it does.


What do you think it means when it says:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
After he believed he was both regenerated and saved. They take place simultaneously after one believes in Christ.

Faith and repentance happen at the new birth and this brings forth salvation at the same time. All of this being wrought by God.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Faith and repentance happen at the new birth and this brings forth salvation at the same time. All of this being wrought by God.
This is just speculation.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Notice the "and". First believe (have faith). Then regeneration and salvation follows. It is not regeneration first or salvation first. It is always faith first.
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
All scripture is for all believers and not some for the Jews only. We, all believers, are Jews inwardly, being grafted in. Even the saved Jews are inwardly Jews, too.




Again, God being fair is casting everyone of us into hell. You are continually conflating fairness with mercy. Fairness never saved one soul. Grace, through faith, by God's merciful sacrifice of His Son is what saves. Not fairness.

Whew!! At least neither of us posted a novel this time.

You have answered well everytime. Your posts are easy to read because of the truth in them and you understand that all scripture is given for Christians

:wavey::wavey::wavey::thumbsup:
 

savedbymercy

New Member
This is just speculation.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Notice the "and". First believe (have faith). Then regeneration and salvation follows. It is not regeneration first or salvation first. It is always faith first.
Those in the flesh can't please God Rom 8:8 and since Faith pleases God Hebrew 11:6 those not born of the Spirit can't please God with Faith!
 

Protestant

Well-Known Member
I expected that my reference to her would evoke a response from you. That doesn't matter to me. She had faith.
The demons have faith.

It is truly tragic ou cannot distinguish between justifying faith, which is the gift of God, and that of demonic faith which is innate in Satan, demons, Mother Teresa, the Pope, along with all unregenerate in the world.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This is just speculation.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
Notice the "and". First believe (have faith). Then regeneration and salvation follows. It is not regeneration first or salvation first. It is always faith first.

You just do not get it DHK. Yes 'believe on the Lord and you will be saved'. Do you think I believe any different? But how do people believe? With the heart man believes and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. It all goes back to the heart condition I told you about. Salvation starts with the heart mon ami. The unregenerate have wicked, sin-filled, sin-corrupted, hearts that can not believe. That is why the heart transplantation must occur, that which you dismiss does not apply to us.

Until God gives the unregenerate a new heart, they can not and will not believe. Until you see this, you will be stuck in the mire.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
You have answered well everytime. Your posts are easy to read because of the truth in them and you understand that all scripture is given for Christians

:wavey::wavey::wavey:


I am trying to chop away and get through to him. It seems like he is a petrified tree, though.


28004.jpg
 

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
It is truly tragic ou cannot distinguish between justifying faith, which is the gift of God, and that of demonic faith which is innate in Satan, demons, Mother Teresa, the Pope, along with all unregenerate in the world.
DHK puts everything on the same level --the "faith" his dog has --the "faith" he has that the chair he is about to sit in will support his weight.

You have to remember that DHK was a Roman Catholic for 22 years. He has brought a lot of its mindset and tradition with him.

Mother Teresa was no saint. And by that, she was not a Christian. One doesn't comfort a dying person without dealing with that person's relationship with Christ. She was at the bedside of many diying pagans. But no scriptural words of comfort or warning came from her lips.
 

DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
You just do not get it DHK. Yes 'believe on the Lord and you will be saved'. Do you think I believe any different? But how do people believe? With the heart man believes and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. It all goes back to the heart condition I told you about. Salvation starts with the heart mon ami. The unregenerate have wicked, sin-filled, sin-corrupted, hearts that can not believe. That is why the heart transplantation must occur, that which you dismiss does not apply to us.

Until God gives the unregenerate a new heart, they can not and will not believe. Until you see this, you will be stuck in the mire.
If your only biblical support for your doctrine is a prophetic utterance pertaining to the nation of Israel which has not been fulfilled yet, then you don't have any scriptural grounds for you belief whatsoever. It is simply a Calvinistic belief without scriptural support. I hope you can see that.
 
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DHK

<b>Moderator</b>
Until God gives the unregenerate a new heart, they can not and will not believe. Until you see this, you will be stuck in the mire.
I do get it.
Faith is faith. It is confidence in the word of another:
Whether that confidence be in one's parents for a child,
or in Christ as a faith healer,
or in Christ as Savior and Lord.

Faith is still faith--confidence, trust, etc.

It doesn't go through a supernatural regeneration mill, come out the other side as something mysteriously and supernaturally stronger than when it first went in. That is a myth.

God doesn't regenerate people in a vacuum. A person doesn't sit in a forest alone without the Word or any other influence and then all of a sudden--"poof" he is mysteriously regenerated in order that he might have faith to believe. This is how some of you describe it, and it sounds more like a fairy tale than anything that is Biblical.

Faith always precedes salvation/regeneration; always.
There is not a single case in the Bible where faith did not precede salvation.
Where does faith come from? What does the Bible say?
From regeneration? No!
Faith comes from the Word God. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God (Rom.10:17). Not from regeneration--that is a myth. It is not taught in the Word.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If your only biblical support for your doctrine is a prophetic utterance pertaining to the nation of Israel which has not been fulfilled yet, then you don't have any scriptural grounds for you belief whatsoever. It is simply a Calvinistic belief without scriptural support. I hope you can see that.

Everything to you centers around Israel it appears. These were the ones who cried 'crucify Him, crucify Him'. They were the ones who rejected the Stone, the only solid Foundation there is. They are rejecting Jesus even to this day. Yes, mon ami, many Jews are becoming believers, but the devout Jews is still waiting for their Messiah to come the first time. But sinners' hearts are sin-hardened, sin-filled, sin-corrupted, wicked to the core.

These Jews were also more desirous of having a murderer turned loose into their company than Christ. When Pilate said “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility,” they then yelled “His blood is on us and on our children!” They were the ones Those who passed by hurled insults at him, shaking their heads and saying, “You who are going to destroy the temple and build it in three days, save yourself! Come down from the cross, if you are the Son of God!” In the same way the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders mocked him. “He saved others,” they said, “but he can’t save himself! He’s the king of Israel! Let him come down now from the cross, and we will believe in him. He trusts in God. Let God rescue him now if he wants him, for he said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” In the same way the rebels who were crucified with him also heaped insults on him.[Matt. 27:39-44]

These Jews were told by Jesus earlier “Therefore I tell you that the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people who will produce its fruit."[Matt. 21:43]
 

SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I do get it.
Faith is faith. It is confidence in the word of another:
Whether that confidence be in one's parents for a child,
or in Christ as a faith healer,
or in Christ as Savior and Lord.

Faith is still faith--confidence, trust, etc.

It doesn't go through a supernatural regeneration mill, come out the other side as something mysteriously and supernaturally stronger than when it first went in. That is a myth.

God doesn't regenerate people in a vacuum. A person doesn't sit in a forest alone without the Word or any other influence and then all of a sudden--"poof" he is mysteriously regenerated in order that he might have faith to believe. This is how some of you describe it, and it sounds more like a fairy tale than anything that is Biblical.

Faith always precedes salvation/regeneration; always.
There is not a single case in the Bible where faith did not precede salvation.
Where does faith come from? What does the Bible say?
From regeneration? No!
Faith comes from the Word God. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God (Rom.10:17). Not from regeneration--that is a myth. It is not taught in the Word.

Faith in dogs, cats, peoples, chairs, &c is carnal. Saving faith is God-given, mon ami.
 
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SovereignGrace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
If your only biblical support for your doctrine is a prophetic utterance pertaining to the nation of Israel which has not been fulfilled yet, then you don't have any scriptural grounds for you belief whatsoever. It is simply a Calvinistic belief without scriptural support. I hope you can see that.

Time to bring out the big guns. A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.[Rom. 2:28,29] And then there is In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, And also Further, my brothers and sisters, rejoice in the Lord! It is no trouble for me to write the same things to you again, and it is a safeguard for you. Watch out for those dogs, those evildoers, those mutilators of the flesh. For it is we who are the circumcision, we who serve God by his Spirit, who boast in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—[Phpp. 3:1-3]


All of this is showing how God works upon the hearts of sinners, mon ami. Sinners are dead in transgressions and sins, and can not truly hear the gospel. It takes God to give a heart transplantation, cutting the dead flesh off via circumcision of the heart. Salvation is an inside outside work that God starts and finishes.
 
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savedbymercy

New Member
I do get it.
Faith is faith. It is confidence in the word of another:
Whether that confidence be in one's parents for a child,
or in Christ as a faith healer,
or in Christ as Savior and Lord.

Faith is still faith--confidence, trust, etc.

It doesn't go through a supernatural regeneration mill, come out the other side as something mysteriously and supernaturally stronger than when it first went in. That is a myth.

God doesn't regenerate people in a vacuum. A person doesn't sit in a forest alone without the Word or any other influence and then all of a sudden--"poof" he is mysteriously regenerated in order that he might have faith to believe. This is how some of you describe it, and it sounds more like a fairy tale than anything that is Biblical.

Faith always precedes salvation/regeneration; always.
There is not a single case in the Bible where faith did not precede salvation.
Where does faith come from? What does the Bible say?
From regeneration? No!
Faith comes from the Word God. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God (Rom.10:17). Not from regeneration--that is a myth. It is not taught in the Word.

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

Man by nature, in the flesh doesnt have Faith that pleases God Heb 11:6, because those in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8 !

Believing on Christ is one of the Commandments of God that is pleasing in His sight 1 Jn 3:22-23

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Those in the flesh cannot do that Commandment Rom 8:8 !

Faith comes from the Word God. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of God

Sure thing, but one must be of God to be hearing Gods Words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
 
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