The Eternal Purpose of Christ PT 3

[DHK]

Yes it was a parable...a parable to tell an absolute truth. The unregenerate want nothing to do with God or His ways. They do not want to keep company(hang out with them) with the children of God. There is an old saying...'birds of a feather flock together.' I wanted nothing to do with the church. I would be respectful to them when I was around them, and even enjoyed their company, but I did not want to hang out with them. At the end of the parable Jesus stated "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’”[Lu. 19:27] Then in Matthew 21, Jesus told them the parable of the tenants overseeing the vineyard. He would send delegation to collect his portion of the fruits due him, and they would kill them. Even when he sent his son, they killed him, knowing he was the heir to the vineyard. This was a parable of God and the Jews, who killed Jesus by the sovereign will of God. God then rented that vineyard out to other tenants(Gentiles) after the king brought those 'wretches to a wretched end.'[vs 41a]

How do we interpret parables?
A person once said that it is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
A parable is an illustration meant to convey one essential truth. Not everything in the parable must be absolutely corresponding to some other truth. For example, in the parable of the lost coin what does the broom (or whatever she uses to sweep the floor) represent? It represents nothing more than a broom to clean a floor. It doesn't have a corresponding deeper truth such as representing "the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit," etc. Not everything in the parable corresponds to something. They are what they are.

It is an illustration mean to convey one essential truth.
Now I don't know how you come to the conclusions you do from the parable given in Luke 19. It was a parable about responsibility.
He gave his servants ten pounds, and told them to "occupy till I come."
When he came:
One servant's pound had gained ten pounds.
One servant's pound had gained five.
And the other servant had simply wrapped it up and done nothing with it.
He was "irresponsible. Thus the Master said:

Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

He was speaking to the Pharisees. The overall topic was the Kingdom, which he had been speaking on for much of the time The subject here was our responsibility in relation to the Kingdom. An irresponsible person would not be fit for the kingdom.

Walvoord summarizes it this way:

If the nation did not turn to Jesus, it would be punished.
Jesus gave this parable because… the people with Him thought He was going to reinstitute the kingdom immediately. Since they were close to Jerusalem, Jesus wanted to dispel any disappointment on the part of His followers.

Yes He directed it towards the Pharisees. They wanted nothing to do with Him. They, being in darkness, hated the Light. Jesus stated When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.”[Jn. 8:12] And then He also said "While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”[Jn. 9:5] Then in John 1, John noted There was a man sent from God whose name was John(the Baptist). He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.[Jn. 1:6-9] Then in John 3 Jesus stated This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.[Jn. 3:19,20]

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, to those that hated him, to those who even at that time were plotting to kill him. You are applying the motives of these people to every single person on earth. Do you really think that is a fair assessment of all mankind when the Bible says otherwise.

The truth of the matter is, God has set the conditions about us, around mankind that they will indeed seek him.
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
--They can seek him. They will seek him. There is nothing to prevent them from seeking him.
There is plenty of evidence of this world-wide that goes directly contrary to Calvinistic teaching demonstrating what I believe the Bible to be true and Calvinism to be wrong. I have seen it in my own personal witness and read about it in other Christian media.
I have related this to you before: A Muslim college student, upset with the teachings of Islam, is now seeking out the truth of Christianity because she no longer can believe in what they are telling her about Islam.
In the Middle East many are turning to Christ for that very same reason. They seeking out "the true "God." When the Bible says, "No man seeks after God," first realize:
It is a quote from a psalm which is a general observation about mankind, not an absolute statement about all man.
Secondly, It does not say that man cannot seek God or does not have the ability to seek God.

Sinners are in darkness and what Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?[2 Cor. 6:14b] Sinners can not come to the Light unless first drawn by the Light. Why? As Jesus stated "It is when a person walks at night that they stumble, for they have no light.”[Jn. 11:10] Sinners are in the night, in the darkness and can not see. Just as the blind man said, "I was blind but now I see!”[Jn. 9:25] They are blinded in and by their sins and can not see their need of a Saviour. They are deafened and can not hear the gospel. They have sin-hardened hearts that can not Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.[Jas. 1:21]

Christ is the light of the world.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
He dispels the darkness away. Do not say "They cannot see their need for a Savior," for many do. Why would you say such a thing? The Bible doesn't teach that for each and every person. Obviously it didn't teach that for Cornelius.
Even for the Philippian jailer, he wasn't regenerated before he saw his need for a Savior. Why do they ask to be saved? They see their need.

They wanted nothing to do with Him because they were not of His sheep. They hated Him, hated the Light, and wanted nothing to do with that Light, Jesus Christ.

Your Calvinism has taken you too far. The Bible does not teach Total Inability.

The Pharisees wanted nothing to do with Him. They even sent spies to try to catch Him up in His sayings. Yet, when He was before Annas and Caiaphas, their witnesses would never agree. They were always accusing Him wrongly. They accused Him of having an evil spirit when they said “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”[Matt. 12:24]

Yes, they were trying to kill him; to crucify him on false charges. Really, do you put everyone in that same boat? I don't.
I believed in the deity of Christ before I was saved. I accepted his "Messiahship" before I was saved. I accepted the fact that He was "the Lord" before I was saved. The RCC teaches many orthodox teachings. But I wasn't saved. The Pharisees denied all of this and out of hatred of these claims crucified him. They were envious of him. Not everyone is like the Pharisees.

Christ was just as much Man as He was/is God. He gets no delight in the death of the wicked, yet in His holiness, sin must never go unpunished. It is either punished in the sinner or the Sinbearer. If the Sinbearer was punished for their sins, then the ones whose sins He atoned, they will not be punished in hell for them. He took what was rightly our punishment, by But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.[Isa. 53:5]

Who is arguing against that?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Psalm 2 is a Messianic Psalm. Someday it will be fulfilled. It is not applicable right now and it does use very figurative language. Again, typical of the Calvinist to throw scripture out of context.

Scripture is either poetical and not useful in our discussions, or was written to the Jews only, or was anthropomorphic and God's not really angry, even with Satan, &c.

God is just which means he is also fair. The Bible teaches both attributes. The Bible clearly teaches this, but Calvinism flat out rejects it. It has to. It demands that God, before the creation of the world, elected some to eternal life and left the others (unfairly) to eternal damnation. This is not Biblical, but Calvinism teaches it anyway, therefore them must change the doctrines of the Bible and conclude wrongly that God is not fair. What a farce!

If I have 10,000 marbles, I have every right to keep them or give them away. If I give 10,000 people each 1, that is the only way I am being fair in your eyes. But none deserve me giving them one. Now, God if He is being completely fair, He'd toss everyone of us in the lake of fire. That is Him being fair. It was in His mercy that He sent Jesus to die for a multitude of sinners that never deserved to be saved to begin with. You are conflating God's mercy with His fairness. If He is truly being fair, you and I would be in hell right now. But in His mercy, He saved us by sending His Son to die in our stead.

What other changes do the Calvinist make to the Bible to prop up their errant theology?

Uncalled for.

Christ died for the sins of the world. This is obviously and plainly stated in so many scriptures I am not going to bother quoting them all, suffice it to say that John 3:16ff will do. But the Calvinist in most of these verses must change "the world" to "the elect," though that is not what the Bible says. Here a change, there a change; every where a change, change, leading farther and farther away from the truth for the sake of an ungodly man.

I have already shown you that there are at least three differing meanings of 'world'. World as in the earth as Job states God hung the earth(entire world) on nothing.[Job 26:7] Then there is 'world' in regards to sinners, where it says we are to come out from among the world.[2 Cor. 6:17] So then if there is a 'world' of unbelievers, then they is a 'world' of believers, the church.

Now God is not fair. Christ did not die for the sins of the world. Denial of truth obviously present.
How is God fair?
God did die for the sins of the world.

God would be fair to send everyone of us to hell, mon ami. It is in His mercy that He even saved one sinner.

Scripture:
In preaching to idolatrous pagan heathen in Athens Paul concluded his sermon with these words:
Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
Act 17:32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

Three times he declares to these pagans that God:
1. commands ALL men EVERY Where to repent. Is he speaking just of the elect?
2. He will judge the world in righteousness. Is he only going to judge the elect? These were unsaved idolaters.
3. He has given an assurance to all men that there is a judgment to come. Is this just for the elect?

He has said the same truth in Heb.9:27 concerning the last point.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

1) He gave the Jews the Law and commanded them to keep it knowing full well they could not. By your standards, He was being unfair with them.

2) We are commanded to be holy even as He is holy. By your standards God is being unfair.

3) Jesus told the adultress to 'go and sin no more' and by your standards God was being unfair.

He commands us to do that which we can not do to show He does for us that which we can not do. But to you, that is Him being unfair.

These are three truths that all men know. They are demonstrated in Romans chapter one. God will hold all mankind responsible for the revelation they have--from nature, from their heart, from their conscience that bears witness to them. They have no excuse (Rom.1:20). They will be held accountable in the Day of Judgment.

Yes, even those who never knew He existed, too.

The Calvinist says it is impossible for them to understand "spiritual light." The Bible says otherwise. They will be held accountable for the light that they have been given by God Himself. We are not to be the judges of how much light and in which way God gives that light to the heathen.

Sinners are in the realm of death and darkness and can not see where they are going spiritually speaking. As Paul wrote Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?[2 Cor. 6:14] Darkness can not be in God's presence and you expect sinners, who are in the darkness, to be able to seek for Him. None can seek Him unless He first draws them. When they are being drawn, they are no longer in darkness, but the Light is shining to them, showing them the Way.

Is God fair? God will get the gospel (as he did to Cornelius) to any man who desires to be saved.

God's fairness, again mon ami, would be to cast everyone of us into hell.

OTOH, will Christians be held accountable for not getting the gospel out. Will the blood of the unsaved be on their hands. Yes, I believe it will.

You just lumped the disciples in with us, too. They could not get to Spain, as you stated Paul purposed to go to Spain because no one had been there and he never went where others had been. From the time of Christ's burial and Paul's missionary work in Spain, many died never hearing the gospel. I guess the disciples have those Spainards' blood on their hands, too?

Look at some statistics.
From my calculations, from Shem to Abraham only 1379 years had passed. In that time they say the world population had increased to no more than 6,000 people. For Abraham to get the message of salvation out would not be impossible, especially considering the number of servants that he had.

By the time of Christ the population had increased to one hundred million, or one third of the U.S. population. Now there were not just the 12 apostles but 3,000 saved on the Day of Pentecost, the Lord adding daily to the church, and in Acts 8 a persecution that sent believers everywhere preaching the gospel. It was not impossible in that time for them to reach the world.

I am calling shenanigans. Who were the census takers? Where are the statistics to support such an outlandish claim? I am calling shenanigans.

Now in our time the world is about 7 billion, a population that seems almost unfathomable to our minds. And yet:
Today almost every nation can be reached with some kind of media.
In North America 87% of us are connected via the internet.
In the entire world 43% use the internet. That is almost half of the world population is connected just through that one media alone.

Yet I do not believe everyone has heard the gospel even until this day, mon ami. Why? And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.[Matt. 24:14] So if I am understanding this verse correctly, when the last person who is to be saved is saved, saved via the gospel, then the end will come.

Just less than 80% of the world watches Television.
The reception of radio signals can reach almost every country in the world.
And literature? We live in a global world where there is a literacy rate of 84% world-wide.
--With these statistics in mind, the technology available to us, we have no excuse to get the gospel out. Paul could never have traveled from North America to India as we are so easily able to do. So even though our world is 7 billion it is not impossible to reach it. God has given us the means, the wherewithal to do so, if only Christians everywhere would do their duty in carrying out the Great Commission. We need to use the tools that we have
available to us to reach the world. It is not impossible.
Any person in any part of the world can hear the gospel if they so desire to, and if any Christian is willing to go and tell them. God is fair.
On that basis God fairly receives those into heaven who believe on the name of the Son of God, and rejects those who believe not on the name of the Son of God. This truth is repeated many times in Scripture.
"He that hath the Son hath life: he that hath not the Son hath not life" 1John 5:12.

Yes, we do not need be sitting on our duff doing nothing. We need to be telling the lost about Jesus.

 

[SovereignGrace]

How do we interpret parables?
A person once said that it is an earthly story with a heavenly meaning.
A parable is an illustration meant to convey one essential truth.

Yes.

Not everything in the parable must be absolutely corresponding to some other truth. For example, in the parable of the lost coin what does the broom (or whatever she uses to sweep the floor) represent? It represents nothing more than a broom to clean a floor. It doesn't have a corresponding deeper truth such as representing "the cleansing power of the Holy Spirit," etc. Not everything in the parable corresponds to something. They are what they are.

I do not disagree with this assessment, mon ami.

It is an illustration mean to convey one essential truth.
Now I don't know how you come to the conclusions you do from the parable given in Luke 19. It was a parable about responsibility.
He gave his servants ten pounds, and told them to "occupy till I come."
When he came:
One servant's pound had gained ten pounds.
One servant's pound had gained five.
And the other servant had simply wrapped it up and done nothing with it.
He was "irresponsible. Thus the Master said:

Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

He was speaking to the Pharisees. The overall topic was the Kingdom, which he had been speaking on for much of the time The subject here was our responsibility in relation to the Kingdom. An irresponsible person would not be fit for the kingdom.

Yes, those Pharisees hated Jesus. They wanted nothing to do with Him. They did not want Him to be their King. Hence the usage of that parable.

Walvoord summarizes it this way:

I wished you would not quote that heretic.

Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees, to those that hated him, to those who even at that time were plotting to kill him. You are applying the motives of these people to every single person on earth. Do you really think that is a fair assessment of all mankind when the Bible says otherwise.

Non, mon ami, non. Here is where you are missing the point. ALL SINNERS hate God. Why do I say that. Sinners are in darkness, having no Light within them and Light has no fellowship with Light. When you was a sinner, you hated God. You may not have went around telling people you hated God, but you hated Him by your deeds. As Jesus so plainly put it “If you love me, keep my commands"[Jn. 14:15] and also "Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them”[Jn. 14:21] and finally If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love.[Jn. 15:10] None of us in our fallen state had the ability, the wherewithal to keep His commands, so by our deeds, we hated Him. That is why it is so important to show that God loves those who Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.[1 Jn. 4:7] And furthermore Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well.[1 Jn. 5:1] Notice how 1 Jn. 5:1 is worded..."Everyone who BELIEVES that Jesus is the Christ is born of God." So those who believe have been born of God before they believed. As it is written and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.[1 Cor. 12:3b]

The truth of the matter is, God has set the conditions about us, around mankind that they will indeed seek him.
Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
--They can seek him. They will seek him. There is nothing to prevent them from seeking him.

Just like Lazarus was seeking Him while in the tomb. This was an actual event, but it has a 'parabolic language' to it. What Christ did to raise Lazarus physically, He does to us Spiritually. We were dead in our transgressions and sins[Eph. 2:1]. We could not truly hear the gospel. Sure, we could with our natural ears, but in order to be saved, the ears of the spiritual man have to hear the gospel. Lazarus' friends could have came and cried 'Lazarus come out of there' until they turned blue in the face and he would not have came out. Why? He was dead. That is with our preaching, monsieur. We preach to sinners and yet they walk out of the church still lost. Why? They are dead in their sins and can not hear. Now, when Jesus came along, He spoke to Lazarus and he heard His glorious voice calling him out of death and darkness unto Life and Light. When Lazarus heard, he had no other choice than to come out. He was effectually called from death unto life. That is the way God works on the souls of sinners. A God called preacher preaches the gospel and God moves within that gospel message and quickens a sinner unto life. He now hears the gospel with the ears of his soulish man and is drawn to Christ. He comes out of his spiritual tomb to Christ. He was quickened and responded to the effectual calling of God via the gospel.

There is plenty of evidence of this world-wide that goes directly contrary to Calvinistic teaching demonstrating what I believe the Bible to be true and Calvinism to be wrong. I have seen it in my own personal witness and read about it in other Christian media.
I have related this to you before: A Muslim college student, upset with the teachings of Islam, is now seeking out the truth of Christianity because she no longer can believe in what they are telling her about Islam.
In the Middle East many are turning to Christ for that very same reason. They seeking out "the true "God."

Yet no one can come unless God the Father draws them. The Muslim disenchanted with their religion, seeking after God has to have the Spirit drawing them. Sinners have not the wherewithal to come to God of their own accord. They MUST be first drawn. To state otherwise is full-blown Pelagianism.


Too lengthy...had to cut this short...

 

[SovereignGrace]

When the Bible says, "No man seeks after God," first realize:
It is a quote from a psalm which is a general observation about mankind, not an absolute statement about all man.
Secondly, It does not say that man cannot seek God or does not have the ability to seek God.

Boy you sure do get hung up on dismissing a lot of scripture, mon ami. Is the Sermon on the Mount for us today, seeing He preached it to the Jews? What about the beatitudes? They were spoken to a Jewish audience, too. What about the Law? Do we have to keep it? It was written and given to the Jews.

Christ is the light of the world.
Joh 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

:thumbsup:

He dispels the darkness away. Do not say "They cannot see their need for a Savior," for many do.

Many do not think they are going to hell. Why? Because 'God is love' and a loving God will not send them to hell. They think their good deeds find favor with Him, when on the day of Judgment, they will find out otherwise. Many do not think they need saved, therefore, they do not see their need of being saved. Many think same-sex marriage/gay lifestyle is not a sin. They will find out when it is too late, mon ami.

Why would you say such a thing? The Bible doesn't teach that for each and every person. Obviously it didn't teach that for Cornelius.

Cornelius' prayers were heard by God, so there had to be something there, mon ami. God will not stand in the presence of sin. There was a commercial a few years ago about the Tide speed stick that erased stains just by rubbing it over a stain. This guy was having an interview and had a stain on his front shirt pocket. As he was talking, that stain was going "blah blah blah BLAH BLAH blah," and it was taking the attention away of the interviewer so that he could not hear what that guy was saying. Sinners can not pray to God and expect Him to hear them. Their sin precludes any response from Him. It is like their sins are going "blah blah, blah, blah, BLAH< BLAH, blah, blah." So for Cornelius' prayers to have been heard, a birth of the Spirit had to have taken place via the gospel.

Even for the Philippian jailer, he wasn't regenerated before he saw his need for a Savior. Why do they ask to be saved? They see their need.

I thought you said Acts was a book of transition? You are sure using it A LOT to prove your point. Again, no one can seek God while in darkness. They stumble, not having any Light, because they can not see where they are going.

Your Calvinism has taken you too far. The Bible does not teach Total Inability.

And your free will theology does not allow you to go far enough. :tongue3:

Yes, they were trying to kill him; to crucify him on false charges. Really, do you put everyone in that same boat? I don't.
I believed in the deity of Christ before I was saved. I accepted his "Messiahship" before I was saved. I accepted the fact that He was "the Lord" before I was saved. The RCC teaches many orthodox teachings. But I wasn't saved. The Pharisees denied all of this and out of hatred of these claims crucified him. They were envious of him. Not everyone is like the Pharisees.

You never accepted one thing while a sinner. You may have acknowledged Him and His Messiahship and acknowledged Him as lord, but unless it comes from the heart, you never truly believed. The same with me. I acknowledged Him for years, but I never truly believed. It was not until He drew me that I truly believed in Him.

Who is arguing against that?

Jesus crying out over Jerusalem was Him as a man as well as God. As the bible says, He does not delight in the wicked's death, but in His holiness, sin must be punished.

 

[DHK]

Scripture is either poetical and not useful in our discussions, or was written to the Jews only, or was anthropomorphic and God's not really angry, even with Satan, &c.

Please you know better.
There are poetical and figurative expressions, just as there is in the NT.
Why does the RCC believe in transubstantiation? Because they (like you) want to use a figure of speech (a metaphor) literally. Is that proper hermeneutics?
Some scripture is written only to Jews or only to certain people. Who was the statement "Hath God said?" written to? Context is key.
There are anthropomorphisms. We need to recognize them. "I will shelter you with my wings. Does God have "wings"? Really?
We recognize scripture for what it is, and consider the context. If I cannot recognize the historical context, the figures of speech, etc., then how can I properly interpret the scriptures?

If I have 10,000 marbles, I have every right to keep them or give them away. If I give 10,000 people each 1, that is the only way I am being fair in your eyes. But none deserve me giving them one.

Marbles?? Apples and oranges.
If I accept as my friend one that has loved me, sacrificed for me, been with me through the tough times, then that is fair.
If don't accept as my friend the one who hates me, turns his back on me, then that is fair.
Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourself

 

[SovereignGrace]

Please you know better.
There are poetical and figurative expressions, just as there is in the NT.
Why does the RCC believe in transubstantiation? Because they (like you) want to use a figure of speech (a metaphor) literally. Is that proper hermeneutics?
Some scripture is written only to Jews or only to certain people. Who was the statement "Hath God said?" written to? Context is key.
There are anthropomorphisms. We need to recognize them. "I will shelter you with my wings. Does God have "wings"? Really?
We recognize scripture for what it is, and consider the context. If I cannot recognize the historical context, the figures of speech, etc., then how can I properly interpret the scriptures?

All scripture is for all believers and not some for the Jews only. We, all believers, are Jews inwardly, being grafted in. Even the saved Jews are inwardly Jews, too.

Marbles?? Apples and oranges.
If I accept as my friend one that has loved me, sacrificed for me, been with me through the tough times, then that is fair.
If don't accept as my friend the one who hates me, turns his back on me, then that is fair.
Salvation is by grace through faith and that not of yourself

Again, God being fair is casting everyone of us into hell. You are continually conflating fairness with mercy. Fairness never saved one soul. Grace, through faith, by God's merciful sacrifice of His Son is what saves. Not fairness.

Whew!! At least neither of us posted a novel this time. :laugh:

 

[Rippon]

--They can seek him. They will seek him. There is nothing to prevent them from seeking him.

But the Bible says "there is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God."

There is plenty of evidence of this world-wide that goes directly contrary to Calvinistic teaching demonstrating what I believe the Bible to be true and Calvinism to be wrong. I have seen it in my own personal witness and read about it in other Christian media.

Your anecdotal evidence is nothing. What counts is what the Bible teaches. What the Bible teaches is against DHKism.

When the Bible says, "No man seeks after God," first realize:
It is a quote from a psalm which is a general observation about mankind, not an absolute statement about all man.

It is a quote from TWO Psalms and Romans 3:11.

Of course it is an absolute statement. You always seek to minimize the import of the Word of God.

Secondly, It does not say that man cannot seek God or does not have the ability to seek God.

"There is no one who understands; there is no one who seeks God." That is rather absolute. Further, it neither says nor implies that people have the capacity to seek God.

Your Calvinism has taken you too far.

You twist Scripture so much. Calvinism seeks to let the Scripture speak. On the other hand,DHKism is false doctrine.

The Bible does not teach Total Inability.

You have the inability to comprehend that the Bible teaches Total Inability. For instance, "dead in sin" is quite the case of total inability.

 

[Rippon]

Again, God being fair is casting everyone of us into hell. You are continually conflating fairness with mercy. Fairness never saved one soul. Grace, through faith, by God's merciful sacrifice of His Son is what saves. Not fairness.

That's right. The system that DHK has been sucked into is his tradition --A worldly,man-centered, sentimental philosophy. It is certainly not a correct understanding of the Bible.

As I have said before. He tries to put God in the dock and judge Him. But DHK is a mere mortal. God does as He please with His creation. Everything He does is holy and right. The Lord dispenses mercy as He wills. He hardens as He wills. The Lord owes no one mercy. He is perfectly just. He does not have to give account of Himself to anyone. God is God --the Potentate of all.

 

[DHK]

That's right. The system that DHK has been sucked into is his tradition --A worldly,man-centered, sentimental philosophy. It is certainly not a correct understanding of the Bible.

As I have said before. He tries to put God in the dock and judge Him. But DHK is a mere mortal. God does as He please with His creation. Everything He does is holy and right. The Lord dispenses mercy as He wills. He hardens as He wills. The Lord owes no one mercy. He is perfectly just. He does not have to give account of Himself to anyone. God is God --the Potentate of all.

Beware the sarcasm, the innuendo, and the ad hominems will only come back to bite you.
It is obvious you care nothing about scripture and blindly follow a man, one named Calvin. If you cared about Scripture you would look to it and heed it.

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

In verse 27 God has created the circumstances such that man will seek the Lord. He is a merciful God and desires man to seek him. Your cherry picking of a few verses which you think deny the vast number of verses which proclaim this truth does nothing to eradicate the truth of the Word of God. It won't go away because of Calvin, or you.

This ignorance--that man should seek after the one and true God, and not such idols as Calvin, God formerly winked at. But now he commands all men to repent. Notice he commands all men to repent.
He does not command them to be regenerated so that the can repent. No.
He commands them to repent no matter how unregenerate they may be. These were pagan idolaters that Paul was addressing. He says "all men everywhere," excluding no one. That means the world. Don't let your puny Calvinistic rationalization try and translate that as "the elect," for it doesn't say that. All men everywhere," is a fairly clear expression of truth that should not be tampered with.

That command is universal. It is to everyone. It is to be obeyed. It is not to be ignored. What happens if it is ignored?

Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

He will judge THE WORLD in righteousness. For those who have ignored Jesus Christ, rejected his offer of salvation, have not repented, they will suffer the consequences, and be judged at the Great White Throne Judgment, as per Rev.20:15. They will have no excuse (Rom.1:20).
Yes, God is a fair God. He is a just God. He is a God of love. He loved us so much that he sent his son to die for our sins. That fact should not be ignored by others.

 

[DHK]

All scripture is for all believers and not some for the Jews only. We, all believers, are Jews inwardly, being grafted in. Even the saved Jews are inwardly Jews, too.

Of course all scripture is inspired. No one said any differently. But when context is ignored then it's "profitably" is diminished. The verse I have used on so many occasions, you know well by now. How does this verse help your cause:
1 Chronicles 26:18 At Parbar westward, four at the causeway, and two at Parbar.
--Does it help you to prove the fairness of God, Total Inability, the justice of God, etc? But it is inspired, just as much as any other verse in the Bible. And it is profitable. Without its context it is not of much profit to you. Many of the verses you use are taken out of their proper context and misused or abused.

Again, God being fair is casting everyone of us into hell. You are continually conflating fairness with mercy. Fairness never saved one soul. Grace, through faith, by God's merciful sacrifice of His Son is what saves. Not fairness.

Whew!! At least neither of us posted a novel this time. :laugh:

Why would you think that God is being fair by damning all his creation to hell. That goes against all of your confessions, creeds etc.
Why did God create man? Basic question.
Your answer is so that he could be fair in damning all of us to hell.
But that is not the answer the Confessions give.

The Confessions say that God made man for his own glory.
That is the opposite of what you are saying.
How can God be fair if he is doing that which is against his will and his nature to do?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Act 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Act 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Act 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

In verse 27 God has created the circumstances such that man will seek the Lord. He is a merciful God and desires man to seek him. Your cherry picking of a few verses which you think deny the vast number of verses which proclaim this truth does nothing to eradicate the truth of the Word of God. It won't go away because of Calvin, or you.

Okay. How does a sinner seek after the Lord? Can they seek Him outside the drawing of the Spirit?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Why would you think that God is being fair by damning all his creation to hell.

Uhhhhh, because that is what they rightly deserve?

That goes against all of your confessions, creeds etc.
Why did God create man? Basic question.

God made man to give Him glory. God did not need man, but man needs God. God was God eons before He spoke the words “Let there be light.”[Gen. 1:3] When Adam sinned, God would have been fair to cast everyone of us in hell. How can you not see this?

Your answer is so that he could be fair in damning all of us to hell.

He would be. :thumbsup:

But that is not the answer the Confessions give.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree(LBCoF 1689)

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. ( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

None of these support your claims, monsieur. Care to expound your thoughts?

The Confessions say that God made man for his own glory.

:thumbsup:

That is the opposite of what you are saying.

God created man to give Him glory, yes. When Adam sinned, the whole Adamic race became polluted, saturated by sin. God would have been just and fair to have held back His Son and left us in our sins to die an eternal death in the lake of fire. Why God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden and allowed the serpent to beguile Eve and then cause Adam to eat of that tree is something only He is privy to. But God sent His Son to die to redeem a multitude of sinners from their sins. I rest in that.

How can God be fair if he is doing that which is against his will and his nature to do?

If someone murders someone and they get the death penalty, they got what they deserved. It is only at the mercy of the judge if he/she spares them their life. We deserved hell, mon ami, and God's mercy was the only thing that kept us out of going there.

 

[SovereignGrace]

DHK,

You mentioned Joseph and his dealings with the cupbearer and the baker so I will now finally address it. I am not dodging any subject you throw at me,mon ami, but you try to throw too much at me and at times I can not answer all of them at once. So, please be patient with me.

Joseph was not placing his faith in them, but God. Look at how Joseph found favor in every place he went. He found favor in Potiphar's sight. When his wife lied and got Joseph tossed into prison, he found favor in the prison warden's sight, too. He was trusting God to use those men, either of them or both, to get him out of prison.

It even says in Genesis 39 Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, and he entrusted to his care everything he owned. From the time he put him in charge of his household and of all that he owned, the Lord blessed the household of the Egyptian because of Joseph. The blessing of the Lord was on everything Potiphar had, both in the house and in the field.[vss. 4,5] That to me shows Joseph as being an OT type of Christ. Why? God blesses us not because we are anything special, but only because of Christ. That is where your theology runs off the skids, mon ami. It is almost like you are saying "foul, foul, foul," if we say that God is being fair for sending sinners to hell.

A.W. Pink(I think it was him) wrote concerning God blessing people because of others and used this Joseph account. He also expounded upon how this typified how God blesses others only because of their relationship with Christ.

 

[DHK]

DHK,

You mentioned Joseph and his dealings with the cupbearer and the baker so I will now finally address it. I am not dodging any subject you throw at me,mon ami, but you try to throw too much at me and at times I can not answer all of them at once. So, please be patient with me.

Joseph was not placing his faith in them, but God. Look at how Joseph found favor in every place he went. He found favor in Potiphar's sight. When his wife lied and got Joseph tossed into prison, he found favor in the prison warden's sight, too. He was trusting God to use those men, either of them or both, to get him out of prison.

It even says in Genesis 39 Joseph found favor in his eyes and became his attendant. Potiphar put him in charge of his household, and he entrusted to his care everything he owned. From the time he put him in charge of his household and of all that he owned, the Lord blessed the household of the Egyptian because of Joseph. The blessing of the Lord was on everything Potiphar had, both in the house and in the field.[vss. 4,5] That to me shows Joseph as being an OT type of Christ. Why? God blesses us not because we are anything special, but only because of Christ. That is where your theology runs off the skids, mon ami. It is almost like you are saying "foul, foul, foul," if we say that God is being fair for sending sinners to hell.

A.W. Pink(I think it was him) wrote concerning God blessing people because of others and used this Joseph account. He also expounded upon how this typified how God blesses others only because of their relationship with Christ.

Actually this whole story runs more in favor with you than me. What I was doing was just demonstrating that individuals such as the baker an butler can put their faith in someone else but God, i.e., Joseph. And even if Joseph put his trust in God we can't say that the baker and butler were putting their trust in God by proxy. They weren't. That was the only point I was making and if taken only that far I have made my point.
If you take the story farther, you can see that the Pharaoh had mercy on one and not mercy on the other. For what reason we know not. You can either make this out to be a picture of the God that Calvinism paints, or the King that is found in the Book of Esther cannot be depicted as God. Ahasuerus was a foolish king who was moody. Esther said "If I perish, I perish." The king was not noted for consistency. When someone entered into his court he would behead some and have mercy on others, perhaps just according to the mood he was in. Thus the hesitation of Esther. No one had entered into the court for some time. Surely this is not a picture of God. We can enter into his courts at anytime.
And so can the unsaved. Whosoever will may come.

 

[DHK]

Uhhhhh, because that is what they rightly deserve?

God created all in six days and looked back at his creation and said, "it was very good." Was it deserving of Hell? Is he the monster that creates things to destroy things.

There is an apocryphal story (I believe in the "Hidden Books") of Jesus making clay pigeons to fly, but then when they return he breaks them. Does that sound like Jesus? It sounds like the picture you paint of God--creating things in order to destroy them.

God made man to give Him glory. God did not need man, but man needs God. God was God eons before He spoke the words “Let there be light.”[Gen. 1:3] When Adam sinned, God would have been fair to cast everyone of us in hell. How can you not see this?

I do see this, and very clearly see this. I also see a God of love.

Chapter 3: Of God's Decree(LBCoF 1689)

1._____ God hath decreed in himself, from all eternity, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably, all things, whatsoever comes to pass; yet so as thereby is God neither the author of sin nor hath fellowship with any therein; nor is violence offered to the will of the creature, nor yet is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established; in which appears his wisdom in disposing all things, and power and faithfulness in accomplishing his decree.
( Isaiah 46:10; Ephesians 1:11; Hebrews 6:17; Romans 9:15, 18; James 1:13; 1 John 1:5; Acts 4:27, 28; John 19:11; Numbers 23:19; Ephesians 1:3-5 )
2._____ Although God knoweth whatsoever may or can come to pass, upon all supposed conditions, yet hath he not decreed anything, because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.( Acts 15:18; Romans 9:11, 13, 16, 18 )

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

4.______These angels and men thus predestinated and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.( 2 Timothy 2:19; John 13:18 )

5._____ Those of mankind that are predestinated to life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ unto everlasting glory, out of his mere free grace and love, without any other thing in the creature as a condition or cause moving him thereunto.
( Ephesians 1:4, 9, 11; Romans 8:30; 2 Timothy 1:9; 1 Thessalonians 5:9; Romans 9:13, 16; Ephesians 2:5, 12 )

6._____ As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so he hath, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto; wherefore they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ, are effectually called unto faith in Christ, by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified, and kept by his power through faith unto salvation; neither are any other redeemed by Christ, or effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only. ( 1 Peter 1:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:9, 10; Romans 8:30; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:5; John 10:26; John 17:9; John 6:64 )

7._____ The doctrine of the high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care, that men attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election; so shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God, and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel. ( 1 Thessalonians 1:4, 5; 2 Peter 1:10; Ephesians 1:6; Romans 11:33; Romans 11:5, 6, 20; Luke 10:20 )

None of these support your claims, monsieur. Care to expound your thoughts?

Does this really make sense and can it justly be supported by the references given at the end:

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

How dare one say that leaving "others" to "just condemnation" is to the "praise of his glorious justice." Nothing could be farther from the truth.
You have even contradicted this yourself.
You said that we all deserve this. For God to select some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation (leaving them to eternal damnation) is not biblical and cannot be supported by the scripture given. This was written by Calvinists, not by people paying close attention to scripture.

God created man to give Him glory, yes. When Adam sinned, the whole Adamic race became polluted, saturated by sin. God would have been just and fair to have held back His Son and left us in our sins to die an eternal death in the lake of fire. Why God put the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the Garden and allowed the serpent to beguile Eve and then cause Adam to eat of that tree is something only He is privy to. But God sent His Son to die to redeem a multitude of sinners from their sins. I rest in that.

In your opinion, as soon as Adam sinned God suddenly turned from a God of love to a God of hate. The nature of God was changed, perhaps even more than the nature of man. This goes against what the Bible teaches.
When we look at Scripture we see the same God wooing and pleading Adam to come back to him, and then finally providing a sacrifice for him, reconciling Adam back to fellowship with him. There was no eternal condemnation upon Adam.

If someone murders someone and they get the death penalty, they got what they deserved. It is only at the mercy of the judge if he/she spares them their life. We deserved hell, mon ami, and God's mercy was the only thing that kept us out of going there.

It is more than mercy. It is grace. It is grace by faith. The grace of God was in effect on the cross. He provided a pardon for our sins. The pardon must be accepted or it will not grant the freedom provided. It must be accepted in faith that it will do what it says it will do, that is pardon the prisoner. It can be refused which is a very foolish thing for a prisoner to do. It is grace by faith. Someone gracious enough to offer a pardon. The pardon must be accepted by faith. It can be refused. The person can be executed. But the pardon can spare him. Thus it is in salvation.

 

[Rippon]

Beware the sarcasm, the innuendo, and the ad hominems

It is obvious you care nothing about scripture and blindly follow a man,

Note the blatant hypocrisy of DHK in the above.

But now he commands all men to repent. Notice he commands all men to repent.

Who has said otherwise?

He does not command them to be regenerated so that the [sic]can repent. No.

Absolutely no one has come up with that. So why even say such a thing?

He commands them to repent no matter how unregenerate they may be.

"No matter how unregenerate they may be" is nonsensical. An unregenerate is unregenerate period.

These were pagan idolaters that Paul was addressing. He says "all men everywhere," excluding no one. That means the world.

Where have I said anything different? I have quoted Acts 17:30 and related passages hundreds of times on the BB.

Don't let your puny Calvinistic rationalization try and translate that as "the elect," for it doesn't say that. All men everywhere," is a fairly clear expression of truth that should not be tampered with.

Again, no one has said anything of the kind. Your ridiculous rebuttal of nothing anyone has said has been noted.

That command is universal. It is to everyone. It is to be obeyed. It is not to be ignored.

Ho hum; more of the same.

God is a fair God. He is a just God.

To call him a "fair" God is to weaken his attributes. Keep to the more biblical Just God.

He will judge the world with justice. That means a good part of humanity is to be condemned to Perdition. He mercies His elect and hardens the rest.

 

[Rippon]

one named Calvin.

because of Calvin,

such idols as Calvin,

Why is it you bring up his name so often when others, such as myself have not even mentioned him in posts you quote?

You are fixated. You are obsessed. You are suffering from an acute case of Calvin derangement syndrome. You need treatment. You need to make a pledge not to utter his name when others have not. Further, every time you say something evil of him you are evidencing your own evil heart. Have you thought of that? So I propose that a moratorium is in order. No mention of his name should be allowed. Every time you violate this principle you will be reminded of your sin.

 

[Rippon]

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

How dare one say that leaving "others" to "just condemnation" is to the "praise of his glorious justice." Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Listen: the eternally condemned are justly condemned by God. Right? How can praise not be given to God for His glorious grace? All deserve condemnation. The Lord has chosen from all of humanity a remnant who receive his mercy. How thankful we should be that we are the objects of His mercy and grace! Especially in light of the justly condemned --we should have a song welling up in our hearts for His kind intervention in our lives causing us to be united with Christ.

This was written by Calvinists, not by people paying close attention to scripture.

We can always count on DHK to inject some humor. LOL!

 

[Iconoclast]

Rippon

We can always count on DHK to inject some humor. LOL!

:laugh::laugh:...oh yes....as if he could write as the calvinists in History have:laugh::laugh:

Why is it you bring up his name so often when others, such as myself have not even mentioned him in posts you quote?

You are fixated. You are obsessed. You are suffering from an acute case of Calvin derangement syndrome. You need treatment. You need to make a pledge not to utter his name when others have not. Further, every time you say something evil of him you are evidencing your own evil heart. Have you thought of that? So I propose that a moratorium is in order. No mention of his name should be allowed. Every time you violate this principle you will be reminded of your sin.
Reply With Quote

he secretly desires to believe these things...perhaps when he posts...he is really joking!

 

[SovereignGrace]

God created all in six days and looked back at his creation and said, "it was very good." Was it deserving of Hell? Is he the monster that creates things to destroy things.

Everything God made is good, never stated differently. However, man has corrupted it by their sinful, wicked heart. God made intercourse to be an holy occasion for the husband and wife to be fruitful and to enjoy each other. Mankind has corrupted it by being g@y, sleeping with animals, others outside their marriage, doing it for money, &c.

There is an apocryphal story (I believe in the "Hidden Books") of Jesus making clay pigeons to fly, but then when they return he breaks them. Does that sound like Jesus? It sounds like the picture you paint of God--creating things in order to destroy them.

That is why they were not included in the canon of scripture.

I do see this, and very clearly see this. I also see a God of love.

God is love, I have never said anything to the contrary. However, we are not. We loved ourselves. We who truly love, have been born of God.

Does this really make sense and can it justly be supported by the references given at the end:

3._____ By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated, or foreordained to eternal life through Jesus Christ, to the praise of his glorious grace; others being left to act in their sin to their just condemnation, to the praise of his glorious justice.( 1 Timothy 5:21; Matthew 25:34; Ephesians 1:5, 6; Romans 9:22, 23; Jude 4 )

How dare one say that leaving "others" to "just condemnation" is to the "praise of his glorious justice." Nothing could be farther from the truth.
You have even contradicted this yourself.
You said that we all deserve this. For God to select some to eternal life and others to eternal damnation (leaving them to eternal damnation) is not biblical and cannot be supported by the scripture given. This was written by Calvinists, not by people paying close attention to scripture.

Sin unpaid for is dealt with justifiably on the day of Judgment. God is just to leave everyone of us in our sins, yet, He sent a Lamb to hang, bleed, and die for a multitude of sinners who justly deserved hell.

In your opinion, as soon as Adam sinned God suddenly turned from a God of love to a God of hate. The nature of God was changed, perhaps even more than the nature of man. This goes against what the Bible teaches.
When we look at Scripture we see the same God wooing and pleading Adam to come back to him, and then finally providing a sacrifice for him, reconciling Adam back to fellowship with him. There was no eternal condemnation upon Adam.

In my opinion? I never stated such a perverted idea. God is immutable. He changes not. He is the same yesterday, today and forever. God never wooed and pleaded with Adam. He called and they came out of hiding. That is effectual calling at its finest.

God never wooed and pleaded with Satan and his minions to come back into fellowship with Him. He justly(fairly) condemned them to the lake of fire without any offer of reconciliation. God does with His creation, both angels and man, as He deems fit.

It is more than mercy. It is grace. It is grace by faith. The grace of God was in effect on the cross. He provided a pardon for our sins. The pardon must be accepted or it will not grant the freedom provided. It must be accepted in faith that it will do what it says it will do, that is pardon the prisoner. It can be refused which is a very foolish thing for a prisoner to do. It is grace by faith. Someone gracious enough to offer a pardon. The pardon must be accepted by faith. It can be refused. The person can be executed. But the pardon can spare him. Thus it is in salvation.

You do not receive grace without mercy and vice versa. God would have been just(right and fair) to consign us to hell and not send Jesus to begin with. That is justice. In grace and mercy, He sent His Son to die for us.