Featured The Eternal Purpose of God in Christ

Yes...look at CHS on psalm 14;

Verse 3. "They are all gone aside." Without exception, all men have apostatized from the Lord their Maker, from his laws, and from all the eternal principles of right. Like stubborn heifers they have sturdily refused to receive the yoke, like errant sheep they have found a gap and left the right field. The original speaks of the race as a whole, as a totality; and humanity as a whole has become depraved in heart and defiled in life. "They have altogether become filthy

"Yes," says the Psalmist, in a manner not to be mistaken, "they are." He has put it positively, he repeats it negatively, "There is none that doeth good, no, not one." The Hebrew phrase is an utter denial concerning any mere man that he of himself doeth good. What can be more sweeping? This is the verdict of the all-seeing Jehovah, who cannot exaggerate or mistake. As if no hope of finding a solitary specimen of a good man among the unrenewed human family might be harboured for an instant. The Holy Spirit is not content with saying all and altogether, but adds the crushing threefold negative, "none, no, not one." What say the opponents to the doctrine of natural depravity to this? Rather what do we feel concerning it? Do we not confess that we by nature are corrupt, and do we not bless the sovereign grace which has renewed us in the spirit of our minds, that sin may no more have dominion over us, but that grace may rule and reign?

 

It's not as "deep" as the "Total Depravity" crowd would have it be. It simply means no man can equate himself with God. Only God is "good" - as in perfectly so.

 

I gave the link for the whole sermon....enjoy it!.
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I have heard many sermons over the past 18 years of my studies. None have convinced me of TUIL's version of Election.

 

Can you name any Calvinistic preachers who you have listened to?

 

John MacArthur, John Piper, all the ones on the BB. Have read Matthew Henry, Spurgeon, many more I'm sure if I gave it more thought. Why do you ask?

Oh, RC Sproul quite a bit also....

 

Steaver

I do not know for sure what you mean but I have a rough idea having interacted with you:thumbs:
Can I suggest something.....when you listen to these sermons......pause the labels and historic positions that you have dug into to defend your ideas, and attack automatically the other side....in other words....in a Pastor opens up the text and offers teaching from the Greek words check on those texts with an interlinear....on bible gateway they offer mounce.

I know it will be a challenge....but....listen to what is said asking yourself...

What if this was indeed true as preached?

What would be the same?

What would be different?

Then write down remaining questions and seek to find messages targeting those objections you have.....listen to a variety of speakers on each issue.....not so much to pit one against another....but each one has strengths and weakness....each has some truth...and some things that might not be the best. ....so widen your search first....like a puzzle...put the border in place first before getting very intense and specific....

Audio treasures has many good sermons on the issues that you speak of.
Sermonaudio has multitudes of them.....I can recommend many sermons and speakers if you like.....some hard and direct.....some easy and smooth....some with language skills,etc...

 

When I get to a keyboard later I can offer several if you like....

 

I appreciate your helpful directions in this post. But there are MANY non- Cals here and abroad who have studied these issues the exact same way that you have outlined and we have come to very different conclusions. So it really isn't a fault in study approach that we believe differently about this issue.

 

oh, yes, so very refreshing never did address post #35.

very good verbiage and use of syntax. But you don't address post #35.

Oh jubilous rapture! A testimony of God's non-existent Irresistible Grace!
But still no response to post #35.

Part of the cheering section. But no response to Post #35.{/quote]

A feeble attempt at a rebuttal, but to no avail. Nothing specific was addressed. Just the same old bluster. :sleeping_2:
Post #35 still went unaddressed. All the posters above thought that through their cheering and egging each other on they actually had addressed the post. But no, instead they had ignored it. This is an example of the debate tactics of Calvinists.

 

Steaver

Sometimes while driving I scan the radio....I hear the other speakers....it comes down to this....about 75 percent of what is said both will agree upon.....

The other 25 percent.....are watershed issues......a few verses, words,or Theological concepts determine where a person gets it right or wrong....

When a person shifts views....it is one or two of these key truth's that fall into place.

Take a guy like James Macdonald....sp?....from walk in the word.....he is such a speaker..he speaks more about Christian living more than systematic theology.....to prepare many of those messages.....he might not consider these other issues as much as others as he deals with these topics....so...I am not expecting a carefully thought out teaching from him on these topics.....

 

:applause::applause::applause:..

Very helpful post once again in that it offers some clarity in this troubled sea of theogical confusion.

 

Yes yes.....isa65......strong verse. So clear.....Sometimes I start reading from isa49 straight through to 66....so many great gems of truth speaking of the work of the Servant of the Lord.....I should keep this one in mind more often since Paul quotes it in Romans....he quotes Isa 17 x in 6 chapters.....

 

That's a great idea! Acts 13:48. '.....and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.'

With much respect, just saying these things with great confidence doesn't make them so
John 6:44. "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him.'
Gal. 1:15. 'But when God......was pleased to reveal His Son in me......'

I'm sorry to give just bald quotations, but time is limited, and you gave just bald assertions. I'm happy to enlarge on these texts tomorrow.

That's exactly right. But the reason he chooses not to get saved is because he has a wicked unbelieving heart. He will continue to reject Christ in the face of all arguments unless God does a work on his heart. Ezekiel 36:26-27.

 

Maybe you should learn to use the quote feature properly. But you are not quoting me in this post. I didn't write these things, but for the sake of others I will respond to it.

No it isn't. If you worshiped a different "god" than I you wouldn't be here (especially since I am the moderator) . Other gods are Allah, Vishnu, Brahma, Ganesh, etc. These are other gods. We both worship Christ, the second person of the triune Godhead, the Creator of the universe. (And much more can be added in here)

As evangelical Christians, yes, our faith is essentially the same.
There are Catholics that are members of this board and no doubt reading these posts. Would you stand in solid agreement with me and defend "the faith" against Roman Catholicism?

If we lived in an Islamic nation where Christians die for their faith on a regular basis would these be "side issues"? Or would you side with me in defending the faith even if it meant dying for the faith "as an infidel" in the sight of Islam?

Really? Is it yours, mine or Allah? Or are we going to agree that essentially we agree that we do indeed worship the same God, and our disagreements should be more civil. For the most part when one says "Calvin makes God into a monster," it is a statement used descriptively to give analogy for the Calvinist to reconsider his position on a doctrine such as reprobation which the non-cal considers entirely unbiblical. Therefore a little hyperbole with comparison may be used to awaken someone out of their thoughts. It is the theology being attacked.

As far as I know we both believe one is saved by grace through faith.

Since when has that been a problem for others. It may be a problem to you but has not been for others. It is a minor detail that many don't really care about.

Are you sure about that?
I am going to heaven. Where are you going? Did you have a different destiny in mind? If not why did you even ask the question?

That is not entirely true. That is the way that one man in history depicted God because of his belief in one doctrine. That doesn't mean that all do.

Those are the logical conclusions of a non-cal. If you are wise you will be able to refute them. It doesn't mean we worship a different God.

Your conclusion shows your confusion.

A confused and unwise statement.

A false statement altogether. Here you bring shame to yourself for posting such trash.

Faith is faith. Since salvation is by faith, if faith had no part in your salvation then you may not be saved at all. Thus "OTOH..." may not be a wise statement.

Not everyone "fully understands" the implications of that statement.
He chose you? When? Before the foundations of the world. Were you there? How do you know you were among the ones that he chose?? I don't believe you "fully understand" as you claim.

See above.

And just how do you have access to God's decrees? You don't. You claim to have access to knowledge unavailable to you (like the gonstics did).
You can't even demonstrate that you are one of the elect can you?

And so??

That is wrong. Now it is just a false accusation. Those who differ with you have assessed one man's view of God as a monstrous God because of his view of one doctrine--reprobation. That was in the 16th century. We have never said that about the God we worship. Neither do we believe that the God you worship is any different. It is all in one's viewpoint of God. How do you view God? How do others view the God you say you worship? That is an important question that you need to seriously answer.

And so it should.

No it isn't.
Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
--It is impossible for God to lie. That He cannot do. There are many things God cannot do. That is but one of them. He cannot do anything that is against his nature to do.

Actually he was telling Moses of his will, his plan, of what he was going to do.
Taking things out of context doesn't help matters much.

Right now the US President has the rights and authority of a world dictator. He has passed more executive orders than all past presidents in history put together. He has vetoed more bills than any other president. He shows complete and utter disdain for congress and the democratic process. Using your president as an illustration is ludicrous and laughable.

He keeps his promise and pardons all those who in faith come to him.

Justice was paid on the cross for all that believe. The offer of salvation always remains to any who will believe. For salvation is by grace through faith.

He doesn't have that right believe it or not.
He wrote it down here:

Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
--His promise of salvation is to all that believe. He won't lie about that. He is not a sinful man who doesn't keep his promise. He does. His invitation of salvation goes out into all the earth to everyone.
He that believes shall be saved;
He that believes not shall be damned.

It is freely given to all who believe.

God doesn't refuse mercy; man does. This is the confusion of Calvinism.

Every man is accountable for the revelation that God has given him.

When reprobation is said to be "to the praise of His glorious justice," this is a monstrous theology. Pitiful.

 

Would think that IF God viewed this issue as you would say that He does, then either God is NOT all sovereign and powerful, as more stay lost then get saved, or that He is somehow limited Himself to rely upon the free will of Man to save ourselves, in the sense that He cannot save anyone until they make that decision of "own free will"

That would presuppose though that fallen sinners actually can do that for themselves, correct?

 

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Preach Tony wrote:
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The God found in Calvinism is very much a vicious monster. I say that with a clear conscience, because I don't believe Calvinism's God is the same God found in scripture.

Pastor DHK wrote:
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But you make God into a cruel monster after the image of Calvin.

I think comments like this are very unhelpful. I am aware that similar comments have been made by the other side. DHK, you are a moderator; if you really believe that Calvinists turn God into a cruel monster and that it is a 'heresy' as you have stated elsewhere, then it is your duty to ban all Calvinists from the forum.

But would it not be better for us to love and respect each other as brothers and sisters in Christ, recognizing that the great crowd of Revelation 7 will be exactly the same size whether Calvinism or Arminianism is correct. Each of us will be in that crowd, so wouldn't it be as well to start trying to get along now?