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Control involves a number of inter-related elements including some physical deterrents, surveillance systems, signage, etc. It also involves more effective things like immigration policies that provide a strong guest worker program, realistic quotas, assistance to our southern neighbors in economic and law enforcement operations against drug cartels that make life extremely difficult for those who would normally want to stay in their home countries, but cannot because of economic, political, or safety reasons.
Well you claimed a standard, now it doesn't exist. And our borders are not "proved" to be under the control of criminals. We have some issues on the southern and northern borders, but given the enormity of the northern and southern borders, we actually do a pretty good job with it.
We already have a "patrolled opening." That's what the Border Patrol does.
We need a rethinking of immigration policy. Yes, enforcement is essential, but we need to figure out a better way to structure immigration and enforce those statutes.
You don't seem to know what a guest worker program is... I'm talking about temporary immigration for industries such as agriculture and construction, and highly specific technical jobs where employers cannot locate appropriate citizens to do the work. A guest worker program is anything but putting people on welfare. You realize that most illegal immigration across our Southern is so people can work and make money to send home, right?
Pertaining to the numbers of people allowed to immigrate from various nations.
We don't have authorization as a nation to spend anyone else's money, so it would come from public funds.
We would have to set up appropriate agreements and checks and balances. Our President is supposed to be a deal maker. Certainly he could do this, or any number of people in government. These issues are items of mutual interest between nations.
I am not afraid of "foreigners," but it sounds like you are. With few exceptions, those who immigrate to this culture drop their former allegiances and embrace our nation.
Assimilation does not always look like white, Anglo-Saxon, Protestant, 1950s American culture, especially in the first generation. But, with relatively few exceptions, immigrants assimilate quite well. Assimilation does not mean destroying one's cultural heritage or casting aside languages other than English.
You know, once when I was working in retail, I had a customer come into my department and I needed to work with him on a number of items. While I was filling out paperwork for him and making arrangements for his order, he proudly told me he was a WWII veteran. I thanked him for his service and asked in what theater he served. He had served in Europe. I mentioned that my own father had served in the Pacific Theater and expressed my admiration for the sacrifices of his generation.
The economic, political and social stressers that cause people to become so desperate to immigrate that they cross borders illegally.
No kidding. I'm just pointing out unless we are planning to create a closed society with authorities checking identity "papers" consistently and applying for authority to travel, the problem will not be solved. We have to change motivations too.
You realize that many illegal aliens did not cross the borders illegally. They have overstayed visas or certain things have changed, nullifying their legal status. Moreover, illegal immigration has been going on a long time. It's not like 11 million people just walked across the border last year. Moreover, only about half of illegal aliens came from Mexico.
You realize that not everyone is trying to be in the labor force? Some are in college or other school. Some are raising children. Many are retired. Do you consider a couple in their 80s, living off of their 401K and other investments to be unemployed? Apparently Donald Trump does with his frequent claims that 93-94 million people are "out of work." That's just dishonest. CNSNews.com is full of garbage stats like that.
Again, incredibly misleading statistics. Let's deal in truth.
Because of reality.
I oppose the government seizing property without a sane and compelling reason to do it.
You have not been dealing in facts. You are dealing in fear and propaganda.
Haven't you been reading along? Do you have a read comprehension problem?
You apparently are unfamiliar with them, since you wrote what is next.
The government condemns the land and then buys it at a price they determine. They do not have to take into consideration mineral rights or anything else. I am quite familiar with the process. It is effectively seizing the land (you have no choice and not much negotiating power - if any).
But wait, according to you, those pesky illegal foreigners was crawling all over people's property, so you wouldn't have any privacy. Moreover, you would essentially be in Mexico.
It is strange to me for anyone to look fondly at the Berlin Wall. But even then, there were a number of people who managed to cross it. Moreover, it was a relatively short wall in a contained space with few natural impediments. Our southern border in Texas is a river, not the middle of a centuries-old urban area.
You don't have police or sheriff where you live? There is no legal system?
I'm not arguing for anyone's platform. I am certainly not arguing for any sort of alleged Democratic plan, so if you are working from that assumption, you are already completely missing my points. I'm not using code words or referencing anything you may have heard. Take my words are straightforward statements and stop trying to tie them to the positions of others.
I favor keeping effective and just policies, but everything needs a careful review.
Your welfare statistics are woefully out of whack. There are not really that many able-bodied welfare recipients (under retirement age) that are unemployed.
There are quotas, but they are often not realistic. That is a complex situation well beyond the scope of this conversation.
That is a problem. And the problem you describe here has NOTHING to do with a border wall. You have just demonstrated why a border wall is irrelevant to about half of the illegal immigration problem. A border wall will not change this situation, so let's focus on the topic.
No, I am not. I am suggesting using US funds to support a US program in conjunction with other nations. Why? Because it is in our interests to do so.
How can we have checks and balances for something that I have proposed that doesn't exist yet? Are you actually reading and thinking about anything I write or are you just using that age-old argument style that doesn't respond to anything but just asks for so many clarifications that a thoughtful person gives up? That's something children do.
Obviously. That is the primary driver of illegal immigration from Mexico. Short of invading and making Mexico a territory of the United States, we need to figure out how to help the people of Mexico eliminate corruption and provide a stable business environment that provides economic opportunity for everyone. They have ample natural resources and a hard-working and intelligent population, there is not reason they cannot succeed if the country can get out from other the oppressive corruption. There are creative ways to help Mexico do that, but we have to be willing to help. Building a wall is not helping, but simply wasting money that could be used for other things like paying down the debt.
Why are you taking the words of an extremist organization as speaking for all persons coming across the southern border?
This is simply lumping entire groups of people together and condemning them upon the actions of a few.
The US didn't want my mother's family, but they were allowed to emigrate under the provision that they had a sponsor. Providentially, my great uncle had found himself in the US illegally as a teenager (long story) and had eventually gained a path to citizenship through a broad amnesty program. He because a citizen in the early 1920s.
Since they were liberated by the Red Army on their march through Poland (and then had to flee the advancing Red Army because they liked to get revenge on non-Russians), they simply looked like the rest of the population.
Yes, obviously. I have no idea why you are bringing this up.
Our court system does a decent job. There is room for improvement. Note, this has nothing to do with building a wall.
Yes, obviously.
Havoc? President Trump and his supporters are working very hard to create that impression. Are there crimes in the US? Yes. Are they primarily non-citizens? NOPE.
Figures don't lie, but liars figure.
Sure. And it is the job of responsible people to review the methodology of that poll to determine its relevance, if any, to the matter at hand.
I don't recall where I told you how it made me feel. This is a fundamental principle of private property, a cornerstone of of capitalism and the Western economy.
As someone who has just previously demonstrated ignorance or disinterest in private property rights, this is a strange accusation. Again, the assertion that my "feelings" are controlling my argument. Weird.
Again, the "feelings" angle... Weird.
I am native born. My father's ancestors are recorded as being in Jamestown (James City, specifically) back in 1611. We don't know specifically how early they arrived. My mother's immediate family arrived as refugees after WWII.
Actually yes. If an owner doesn't want to sell, it goes to court in a condemnation proceeding.
That's the way it is supposed to be, but the definition of fair market value often varies between the owner and the government. Moreover, there is often value to land that is well beyond fair market value. If the land has been in your family for more than 180 years (a lot of deeds were granted after Texas became a country in 1836 and a significant amount has stayed within families), then you almost certainly will face a great loss to your family heritage.
Yes. The government can exercise the principle of eminent domain to begin condemnation proceedings.
I agree. I am a lover of the law, and I actually know it too.
I don't have a clue as to what you are trying to say. I am opposed to effectively ceding land to Mexico through a border wall. You have been an advocate for a border wall that is impossible to build unless you cede property. I have asked you to demonstrate a potential route on just a small section of the difficult border, but you keep ducking the question. Is it an inability to deal with the reality that you are wrong?
Not at all. I don't want to rehash the argument, but here are the simple facts. The Berlin wall was relatively short, constructed in an a well-established city with few of the natural obstacles (canyons, rivers, marsh, populations of people that have rights under the US Constitution, etc.) that a "border" wall would have to negotiate.
Which a wall will not. Of course, you can't even confront the reality that a border wall would have to be built well inside the border, so there's not much common ground to work with.
Your distrust of foreigners is corrupting your thinking:
Okay...
I cannot for the life of me figure out why Christians are so dead set again even considering amnesty when they have been forgiven by God for far worse crimes. Grace is sometimes appropriate.
They left Yugoslavia without notice because they were of Austrian descent and local lynch mobs were murdering whole families in the night that were of Austrian descent, assuming they must secretly be pro-Nazi. One of their friends, a butcher, was found carved up and hanging in his store window one morning. Another family, husband, wife and children, were found hanged from the lamp posts on one of the main streets. Their home had been broken into by the partisans, but by the grace of God they were spared, for the moment.
Unfortunately, their story is not unique and gets repeated today, although with different political situations, governments and mobs/terrorists.
