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The five points of Calvinism and Eternal Security.

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Iconoclast

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John I Morris said:
Being totally honest, you Calvinist crack me up with all of your silly comments. God allows you a choice, you make it, God seals it. How hard is that? The angels had a choice, because they were created beings, they made it, God sealed it. Jude 6
What part of "whosoever" do you not get? What part of "God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."? If God has to control everything in order to be God, then next car accident, flat tire, trip up or down stairs, just thank God that that is over. Since He made it happen. Salutations
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1] Men do not have a choice as they are condemned already in unbelief...it is repent or perish. It is a command, not a multiple choice.

2]whosoever is actually...every believing one...check on it.
3]everyone Peter writes about is going to be saved...each one elected by God will be found by Jesus
4] yes God is in control of every single providence. There is not one random molecule out of Gods control
.If you are a new believer ,study the providence of God.
 
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Iconoclast

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John I Morris,

Hello JM, I was not sure my shorter post went through, so I expanded it here...enjoy, and by all means ask more questions.

Being totally honest, you Calvinist crack me up with all of your silly comments
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.
Let's see what is so funny

God allows you a choice, you make it, God seals it. How hard is that?
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What choice is that? Men are condemned in their unbelief' unless God is merciful to them. It is not a multiple choice situation.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


The angels had a choice, because they were created beings, they made it, God sealed it. Jude 6
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6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation,
Where is this a "choice"...it looks like rebellion, were they given an option?

What part of "whosoever" do you not get?
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Here is the part we do get....the"whosoever" is not actually in the text, it is...EVERYONE BELIEVING

15 that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during,

16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.


'he Son of Man must be lifted above the heads of men—as Moses lifted up that serpent in the desert—so that any man who believes in him may have eternal life. For God loved the world so much that he gave his only Son, so that every one who believes in him shall not be lost, but should have eternal life.

ho hina pas ho pisteuō

that everyone who believes

Do you get it JM?

What part of "God is not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance."?
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Everyone spoken of in this passage is going to be saved, every single person, That being said God is willing that multitudes perish, see the White Throne judgment on that..

If God has to control everything in order to be God,
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 Now JM, you said Calvinists say "silly " things... Can you explain how the biblical God could be God and have anything outside of His control? This statement you have made here seems as if you have not considered this issue, biblically. Are you a new Christian?



then next car accident, flat tire, trip up or down stairs, just thank God that that is over. Since He made it happen.
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Better still read this and tell me which are the silly parts!:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
Dagg Manual of Theology3

Read on God's providence
 
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Yeshua1

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37818 said:
". . . corporate election . . . ." ". . . .According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: . . ." -- Ephesians 1:4.
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God elects us though on the individual basis, as Jesus died in the place of the elect personally, not for all people!
 
utilyan

utilyan

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God is sovereign!
God can do anything!
But suppose out of curiosity, or experiment, He can't run a NON-Calvinist system.

So my simple question is. Could God do it "our way" if he wanted to?
 
37818

37818

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Yeshua1 said:
God elects us though on the individual basis, as Jesus died in the place of the elect personally, not for all people!
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No, He died for the "whole world." 1 John 2:2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:14-19. Biblically there is no such thing as a "believing world."
 
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Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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37818 said:
No, He died for the "whole world." 1 John 2:2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:14. Biblically there is no such thing as a "believing world."
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Not only the sins of ours (the Jews) but for the sins of the whole world (to include Gentiles) this does not say every person.
 
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Yeshua1

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37818 said:
No, He died for the "whole world." 1 John 2:2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 5:14-19. Biblically there is no such thing as a "believing world."
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He died for the sins of all does not mean God intended to have Him atone and save all!
 
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Yeshua1

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davidtaylorjr said:
Not only the sins of ours (the Jews) but for the sins of the whole world (to include Gentiles) this does not say every person.
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Jesus death was all sufficient to save all lost sinners, but God intended to have His chosen ones benefit from it...
 
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Yeshua1

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davidtaylorjr said:
Just wanted to clarify because @Revmitchell said he agreed with the statement. @Revmitchell do you now believe that Christ only died for the sins of those who had been chosen?
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He will disagree on how chosen to become the saved, as we would hold to election based upon will of God, while he would see it based upon God knowing that we would choose Jesus first!
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

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Yeshua1 said:
He will disagree on how chosen to become the saved, as we would hold to election based upon will of God, while he would see it based upon God knowing that we would choose Jesus first!
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Which is why I want clarification because some believe that the death was even for those who do not choose Christ.
 
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