The foundation of our faith

[Iconoclast]

I'm not placing such limits on how Jesus makes himself known. I can say there have been reports of the thing you say can't happen, happening. Jesus will reveal himself as he sees fit. Though it would be unusual, to say the least, from where I sit and I would have a mountain of questions, there are enough reports of this happening for me to leave open the possibility.

I would not open myself up to extra biblical revelation. We are given all we need that pertains to life and Godliness in scripture.

the Apostles were promised to be guided.....into all truth.

Jesus did not forget to tell us anything. the church has believed scripture to be sufficient;

Chapter 1: Of The Holy Scriptures

1. The Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience, although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men inexcusable; yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and his will which is necessary unto salvation.

Therefore it pleased the Lord at sundry times and in divers manners to reveal himself, and to declare that his will unto his church; and afterward for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan, and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing; which maketh the Holy Scriptures to be most necessary, those former ways of God's revealing his will unto his people being now ceased.( 2 Timothy 3:15-17; Isaiah 8:20; Luke 16:29, 31; Ephesians 2:20; Romans 1:19-21; Romans 2:14,15; Psalms 19:1-3; Hebrews 1:1; Proverbs 22:19-21; Romans 15:4; 2 Peter 1:19,20 )

 

[go2church]

Well I guess if one holds to the doctrine detailed in the London Baptist Confession of Faith you would of necessity have to believe this. I don't affirm the LBC.

Baptist Faith and Message 1963

I. The Scriptures

The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is the record of God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. It reveals the principles by which God judges us; and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. The criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus Christ.

Ex. 24:4; Deut. 4:1-2; 17:19; Josh. 8:34; Psalms 19:7-10; 119:11,89,105,140; Isa. 34:16; 40:8; Jer. 15:16; 36; Matt. 5:17-18; 22:29; Luke 21:33; 24:44-46; John 5:39; 16:13-15; 17:17; Acts 2:16ff.; 17:11; Rom. 15:4; 16:25-26; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Heb. 1:1-2; 4:12; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 1:19-21.

 

[blessedwife318]

blessedwife318

Welcome to BB.



You are correct:thumbs:
Everything we need to know about God, Jesus, The Crucifixion, Salvation, etc is all in the Bible.

:thumbs:



Some do not have this understanding as the churches they attend are not clear on The Authority of scripture. Many are given over to emotion and experiences rather than being grounded in the word.

Thanks for the welcome. I spent much of my childhood watching people use experience to trump scripture which actually drove me to study the Scriptures my self so I was very ridiculed for my own study of scripture. It is ignorance to say one can have faith in the God without the Bible. As Rom 10 makes clear faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.

 

[go2church]

It's not a without scenario. It is a matter of priority. Jesus must be first, Jesus is greater than the bible.

 

[Iconoclast]

It's not a without scenario. It is a matter of priority. Jesus must be first, Jesus is greater than the bible.

All Christians understand the preeminence of The Lord Jesus Christ if they are reading the bible at all....that is not the issue

Heb1:1-3...
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

whom he hath appointed heir of all things,

by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory,

and the express image of his person,

and upholding all things by the word of his power,

when he had by himself purged our sins,

sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels,

We only learn this as the Spirit allows us to welcome these verses.[and others like them]
Without the word of God illuminated by the Spirit....there is not true salvation .
There is no true knowledge of God.
There is no true knowledge of reality itself.

I do not see why this is not crystal clear...maybe I am missing the issue?

One of our primary responsibilities is to establish new converts in the word.

 

[Yeshua1]

Well I guess if one holds to the doctrine detailed in the London Baptist Confession of Faith you would of necessity have to believe this. I don't affirm the LBC.

Baptist Faith and Message 1963

I. The Scriptures

The Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired and is the record of God's revelation of Himself to man. It is a perfect treasure of divine instruction. It has God for its author, salvation for its end, and truth, without any mixture of error, for its matter. It reveals the principles by which God judges us; and therefore is, and will remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union, and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and religious opinions should be tried. The criterion by which the Bible is to be interpreted is Jesus Christ.

Ex. 24:4; Deut. 4:1-2; 17:19; Josh. 8:34; Psalms 19:7-10; 119:11,89,105,140; Isa. 34:16; 40:8; Jer. 15:16; 36; Matt. 5:17-18; 22:29; Luke 21:33; 24:44-46; John 5:39; 16:13-15; 17:17; Acts 2:16ff.; 17:11; Rom. 15:4; 16:25-26; 2 Tim. 3:15-17; Heb. 1:1-2; 4:12; 1 Peter 1:25; 2 Peter 1:19-21.

Too bad, as that is what the Bible actual teaches concerning itself, as evidenced by how Jesusle and His Apostles thought of it as being the inallible/ inspired revelation from God to us!

Can the Lord speak to someone but a dream or a vision today? he is God and can do anything he choses to do, but the primary and only sure word of revelation from God to us is the Bible!

 

[go2church]

All Christians understand the preeminence of The Lord Jesus Christ if they are reading the bible at all....that is not the issue

Heb1:1-3...
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,

whom he hath appointed heir of all things,

by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory,

and the express image of his person,

and upholding all things by the word of his power,

when he had by himself purged our sins,

sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

4 Being made so much better than the angels,

We only learn this as the Spirit allows us to welcome these verses.[and others like them]
Without the word of God illuminated by the Spirit....there is not true salvation .
There is no true knowledge of God.
There is no true knowledge of reality itself.

I do not see why this is not crystal clear...maybe I am missing the issue?

One of our primary responsibilities is to establish new converts in the word.

By making the bible and Jesus on the same level of revelation, the preeminence of Jesus is lost

 

[go2church]

Too bad, as that is what the Bible actual teaches concerning itself, as evidenced by how Jesusle and His Apostles thought of it as being the inallible/ inspired revelation from God to us!

Can the Lord speak to someone but a dream or a vision today? he is God and can do anything he choses to do, but the primary and only sure word of revelation from God to us is the Bible!

God can do anything he choses but not that. Primary means there are other options. Only means there aren't other options. So which is it?

You haven't answered my question from earlier, why not worship the bible if they are the same type of revelation?

 

[Tom Butler]

Does the following scripture have any relevance to this discussion?
Psalm 138:2

I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Could "word" mean either/both the written word of God, or the incarnate Word?

Either way, release the hounds.

 

[salzer mtn]

Down the road from me there is a free will Baptist church that as a lot of church houses today puts something on a sign board for people to read as they pass by. This church as a lot of others never put scripture up but some little saying they call tid bits to get peoples attention. Do these churches believe God works through scripture ? probably not, or they would just put scripture and nothing else on their boards.

 

[Yeshua1]

God can do anything he choses but not that. Primary means there are other options. Only means there aren't other options. So which is it?

You haven't answered my question from earlier, why not worship the bible if they are the same type of revelation?

The Bible is the primary way/means by which God speaks to us today, and we do not worship the Bible, as it is infallable testimony to Jesus, and he is the One we worship!

By in order to have me know Him, worthy to be worsgipped, must have that inallable witness of the scriptures though!

 

[go2church]

The Bible is the primary way/means by which God speaks to us today, and we do not worship the Bible, as it is infallable testimony to Jesus, and he is the One we worship!

By in order to have me know Him, worthy to be worsgipped, must have that inallable witness of the scriptures though!

I don't know what the last sentence is supposed to mean, too many typos

 

[Yeshua1]

I don't know what the last sentence is supposed to mean, too many typos

We worship only God, but in order to know Him, we need to have an infallable witness to Him, and that he gave to us in His Bible!

The Apostles always quoted and used the scriptures as their primary way to reach the lost, and were all conviced of its inerrancy and infallability, why aren't you?

 

[go2church]

We worship only God, but in order to know Him, we need to have an infallable witness to Him, and that he gave to us in His Bible!

The Apostles always quoted and used the scriptures as their primary way to reach the lost, and were all conviced of its inerrancy and infallability, why aren't you?

Hebrews 1 says the witness was Jesus. The bible is a record of him being revealed.

Except when they didn't, Acts 17 as an example, where the emphasis was on the resurrection which is where this conversation started.

Inerrancy doesn't answer the question I asked nor does it bolster your point as it only applies to the originals which we don't have. My point isn't in the truth or accuracy of the bible, it is that Jesus should occupy the primary place in our theology and that we shouldn't elevate anything above him, even the bible. I believe the bible because of Jesus, not the other way around.

 

[Revmitchell]

I believe the bible because of Jesus, not the other way around.

I'm sorry but this claim is impossible to make and support. You do not know Jesus one on one eye to eye. We all see God working in our lives but none of us were at his crucifixcion, burial, or resurrection.

In John 17 Jesus prayer for:

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


Paul wrote that:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible itself says that you and I believe because of the Bible. The the word of the disciples who saw the resurrection is given through the Bible. Paul said faith in God comes through the Bible.

To suggest anything else is either a profound misunderstanding of scripture or calling the Bible and God a liar.

I suggest you back up and take another look are your indefensible position.To say that you believe the Bible because of Jesus and not the other way around is just ludicrous.

 

[Bro. James]

"How shall they hear without a preacher?"

"No one comes to The Father unless The Spirit draws him"

"For by grace are you saved through faith; and that(faith) is not of yourselves, but the gift of God. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has before ordained that we should walk in them."

A lot of folk think they are saved by their faith. "I did my part God, now you do yours. Real faith is a gift from God. We have no faith of ourselves. It is grace, grace, wonderful grace which saves any of our wretched souls.

A good example of Jesus, The Word and the preacher is in the Book of Acts: the account of the Ethiopian and Phillip.

Sola Scriptura

Bro. James

 

[Zenas]

I'm sorry but this claim is impossible to make and support. You do not know Jesus one on one eye to eye. We all see God working in our lives but none of us were at his crucifixcion, burial, or resurrection.

In John 17 Jesus prayer for:

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


Paul wrote that:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible itself says that you and I believe because of the Bible. The the word of the disciples who saw the resurrection is given through the Bible. Paul said faith in God comes through the Bible.

To suggest anything else is either a profound misunderstanding of scripture or calling the Bible and God a liar.

I suggest you back up and take another look are your indefensible position.To say that you believe the Bible because of Jesus and not the other way around is just ludicrous.

I think most objective Bible readers would take issue with your interpretation of these verses. "Their word" in John 17:20 is a reference to the preaching of the apostles.

Neither pray I for these [the 11 who were with Him] alone, but for them [future believers] also which shall believe on me through their [the apostles'] word.

In Romans 10:17 "the word of God" is not speaking of the Bible but of the preaching of the gospel.

17 "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ." Revised Standard Version.

17 "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

Jesus didn't tell His disciples to write books, He told them to go out and preach the gospel. We can all be thankful that they did write books but it wasn't part of what Jesus told them to do.

 

[Revmitchell]

I think most objective Bible readers would take issue with your interpretation of these verses. "Their word" in John 17:20 is a reference to the preaching of the apostles.

Neither pray I for these [the 11 who were with Him] alone, but for them [future believers] also which shall believe on me through their [the apostles'] word.

In Romans 10:17 "the word of God" is not speaking of the Bible but of the preaching of the gospel.

17 "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ." Revised Standard Version.

17 "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes through the message about Christ." Holman Christian Standard Bible.

Jesus didn't tell His disciples to write books, He told them to go out and preach the gospel. We can all be thankful that they did write books but it wasn't part of what Jesus told them to do.

I am sure that is exactly what you "think". The preaching comes from the word of God. The testimony and preaching of the disciples is found in the word of God. The message of Christ comes from the word of God. The Bible is the word of God. "Their word" is the word of God. The word of God is the Bible.

This is what liberalism does folks. The idea that we can know Christ apart from scripture comes straight from the pit of hell.

 

[go2church]

I'm sorry but this claim is impossible to make and support. You do not know Jesus one on one eye to eye. We all see God working in our lives but none of us were at his crucifixcion, burial, or resurrection.

In John 17 Jesus prayer for:

Joh 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;


Paul wrote that:

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Bible itself says that you and I believe because of the Bible. The the word of the disciples who saw the resurrection is given through the Bible. Paul said faith in God comes through the Bible.

To suggest anything else is either a profound misunderstanding of scripture or calling the Bible and God a liar.

I suggest you back up and take another look are your indefensible position.To say that you believe the Bible because of Jesus and not the other way around is just ludicrous.

What you said is ludicrous. I have neither called Gid a liar or the bible a liar. Your Pope Patterson and Cardnial Mohler lens are making it hard for you to see. In fact I've said again and again that this isn't a discussion about accuracy but primacy.

I believe what was said in the bible because of Jesus. 1 Corinthians 2:14
The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

No Jesus, no salvation, no salvation, no Spirit, no Spirit, no understanding.

 

[go2church]

I am sure that is exactly what you "think". The preaching comes from the word of God. The testimony and preaching of the disciples is found in the word of God. The message of Christ comes from the word of God. The Bible is the word of God. "Their word" is the word of God. The word of God is the Bible.

This is what liberalism does folks. The idea that we can know Christ apart from scripture comes straight from the pit of hell.

This is what fundamentalism does folks.