Re:
EB, “0 Women besides 2 Mary's and Salome prepare spices before the Sabbath”
GE:
No! Luke states “That Day was The Preparation and the Sabbath (Saturday) drew on. And the women WHO CAME WITH HIM FROM GALILEE also followed after (in the procession to the grave) and, looking into the sepulchre, watched while his body was laid (inside by Joseph and Nicodemus). And THEY, went home and prepared spices and ointments (before) they started to rest the Sabbath according to the (Fourth) Commandment.”
So,
1) they weren’t “women besides 2 Mary's”; they WERE, the “2 Mary's”! And
2) they weren’t “2 Mary's and Salome”; they were the “2 Mary's” ONLY.
Matthew 27:61 and Mark 15:47 NAMED THESE TWO, women AT THE BURIAL: “Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses / the other Mary …. sitting over against the sepulchre …. saw where He was laid.”
They weren't the only women who followed Him from Galilee, and the Marys weren't the only women at the Burial.
If you try to make them all the same people every time "women" are mentioned, then you run into contradictions.
Re:
EB, “1 2 Mary's and Salome buy spices”
GE:
Yes! But when? You don’t say! But Mark 16:1 says it was, “When the Sabbath had gone through”— which is in the beginning of the First Day on ‘Saturday evening’.
The list I have there is in order, so 1 says who and what they did, and then 2 picks up with when it was ("at end of Sabbath/beginning of first day")
GE:
No! You have it completely wrong. Matthew 28:1 says “Late in the end of the Sabbath as daylight began to incline towards the First Day of the week (on ‘Saturday’) mid-afternoon Mary Magdalene and the other Mary set out to come TO LOOK at to the tomb when suddenly there was a great earthquake.” You cannot just ignore the intention of theses women “to come TO LOOK at to the tomb”, because it is important they did not finish what they “set out to” do. The “great earthquake” PREVENTED their visit TO, the tomb, “TO see”.
Part of my realization of this sequence was precisely this fact that they did not finish what they set out to do. Hence, multiple visits. My outline does not deny that. I'm using the King James Clarified version, and it says "SET OUT to come...". What I posted here was just the outline, if you go to the link, you can see the sequence with more details, and explanations.
Re:
EB, “3 Mary Magdalene gets there first, when it is yet dark”
GE:
Your fabricated illusion.
Re:
EB, “4 Earthquake, and angle rolls away stone”
GE:
Out of place, far behind schedule….
Re:
EB, “9 Mary returns from having gotten Peter, and weeps. By now, a second angel has joined the first, and then the risen Jesus makes his first appearance.”
GE:
Surmising, surmising….
You attack, but don't even show why.
Re:
EB, “5 Mary Magdalene sees stone rolled away and tells Peter, who comes with John and sees empty grave cloths, and both leave.”
GE:
When? You don’t say, but John says it was – literally – “while early darkness still”. Discussed above a lot! It was ‘Saturday evening’, dusk after sunset. Not “while DARK still” or Sunday ‘morning-dawn’ as tradition corrupted the truth.
Remember, it's all in sequence, so just look at the last and next time given you, and that gives you the time frame.
Sat evening when it just became dark would still be "First day of the week when it was YET dark". That's what the texts I'm using say. How you rendered it is probably correct, and would be another support for my premise. But I'm not using whatever translation or study tools you're using.
If you think I'm trying to argue for Sunday against the sabbath based on the resurrection; you're going after the wrong person. I believe the resurrection
was on Saturday Nght according Roman and modern recokining, and the First Day according to Hebrew reckoning.
Re:
EB, “6 Other Mary and Salome arrive after the sun has risen, and find stone rolled away and single angel, still there.
7 he tells them Jesus has risen”
GE:
Contrary all facts of Scripture in John 20:1-2 or for that matter, in John 20 from verse 1 to the end!
Mary alone discovers the stone was rolled away from the tomb;
NO ‘Salome’,
NO ‘single angel’ nearby!
No ‘tells them’ anything!
Not “after the sun has risen”, but,
“while yet early darkness / dusk /evening”.
See above discussed thoroughly and strictly to what is written and to the chronology of events and the dictates of logic.
You're referring to John, but Salome is mentioned in Mark, and the single angel is in Matthew. In Mark, even though v.1 mentions Mary Magdalene and the other Mary as byuing the spices with Salome, v.2 says only "they" came to the sepulchre.
The entire point here is that the different Gospels are reporting the account from totally different perspectives, and looking at different people. If you just look at just one gospel by itself to explain everything; you're missing the whole point.
If you insist that Mary Magdalene was present at every visit to the tomb, then you run into the contradiction of one angel or two. One angel appeared first, but Mary Magdalene had not seen
inside the tomb yet. Other women were going to the tomb, in the meantime. By the time of Mary Magdalene's first visit to the tomb, a second angel has joined the first one.
Re:
EB, “8 But they run away afraid, and don't tell anyone.”
GE:
That was “very early dawn before sunrise” according to Mark 16:2-8; not John 20. And Mark gives NO names of women.
What are you talking about? Look at 16:1. You even cite it next.
Re:
EB, “10 She goes and tells the other women, who don't believe; except, apparently, for...
11 the other Mary and Salome, who NOW "depart with fear and joy and ran to bring His disciples word".”
GE:
You mix up no Scripture, “She goes and tells the other women”, Mk16:1 perhaps which mentions, “the other Mary and Salome” but not in these terms, and Mt28:8-10. The only thing seemingly correct is your supposition the other women (whoever they were) “depart(ed) with fear and joy and ran to bring His disciples word” WITHOUT Mary Magdalene.
It's not about 'mixing up' scripture; it's about
harmonizing the four gospel accounts which means, in a way in which there are no contradictions.
Re:
EB, “12 They (the other Mary and Salome) tell them (His disciples), but they do not believe
13 Now, we pick up with Luke's account of the rest of the women, who did not believe Mary Magdalene. They now go to the tomb themselves, after all the others, but still "very early"; bringing the spices they had prepared before the Sabbath.”
GE:
It is the other way round!
Imagine the women after that they had discovered everything, that the tomb was opened, that the tomb was empty, even after that Jesus had appeared to them— according to you, EricB, “came with their spices prepared and ready… and entered the tomb … but his body they found not … and Him they saw not…” Lk24:1-3,22-24
You should BEGIN with Luke's account of ALL the women, who yet did not believe He rose, INCLUDING Mary Magdalene, because, so said Luke in verse 10! But all this confusion just because it is PRESUMED Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday morning!
And you should have ENDED with Matthew’s record of the angel’s witness about Jesus’ resurrection from 28:5 on, and Jesus’ subsequent second appearance, that, to the women OTHER THAN Mary Magdalene.
OK, again, you have to read the full text on the link. The "women who came with their spices" does NOT specify anyone! It is just "they", meaning a group of women. So it is “other“ women, who had prepared the spices, and didn‘t believe the Marys‘ report—#10. else, again, you run into the problem of how many angels were there.
Re:
EB, “14 They find the empty tomb.
15 They now see the two angels, who give them the message, which they run to tell the eleven.
16 Guards and Pharisees fabricate their “Passover plot” myth.
17 The OTHER of "the eleven disciples" goes up to Galilee
18 and assemble, with the doors closed, and Jesus appears to them”
GE:
Luke’s account does not say “they run to tell”; it describes how the women meditating over what Jesus had told his disciples, “returned from the sepulchre, and told them ALL THESE THINGS” which the two angels advised them to “remember”.
And then (next verse, 9) it says they went and told the eleven.
“Guards and Pharisees fabricate their “Passover plot” myth” not after Mary had seen the moved away stone – the first in the series of events of Saturday night – but after Jesus had appeared to the women without Mary Magdalene— after sunrise early Sunday, about the same time when the women were entering the city to go tell his disciples— the last in the series of events of that Saturday night and Sunday morning before and after sunrise.
They devise the scheme beforehand (Matt. 27:62-64), but then afterwards, they carry it out (28:11-15). That's what I was referring to.
THER DAY. God finished “through the Son”, “in these last days”, once for ever establishing “The Lord’s Day”-Sabbath, “Sabbath of the LORD your God”. (Don't call it 'Saturday' because it's not Saturn's but God the LORD'S Day.)