The Freewillers Shell Game part 1.

[Brother Bob]

Nobody forced me to say anything. They did say that God did not create the Earth. They did say that God was intimate and uses a s.... passage to support foreknowledge. I must say though I kinda enjoyed the "shell game" after all.
God can do anything He want for He is Sovereign. If He wants to give men a choice in whom they serve then no one can stop Him. One thing came out of the shell discussion was that if God did "foreknow" and knows all things then it is no big deal that He knows who believes and who does not. amen to that, Read the whole thread and see who said God did not create the "earth". I really don't believe someone who don't believe God created the "earth" knows too much about "foreknow". IMO,

 

[l_PETE_l]

world is sinners so when is foundation of the world?

In John xvii. 5, our Lord speaks of the glory which he had with the Father before the world was. The foundation of the world is an epoch. Then time began. What was before the foundation of the world is eternal.
Hodge, C. 1997. Systematic theology. Originally published 1872. Logos Research Systems, Inc.: Oak Harbor, WA

Can you find the word "world" in Gen:?

Gen 11:1-2
11:1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As men moved eastward, they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.
(from New International Version)

 

[Jarthur001]

Nobody forced me to say anything. They did say that God did not create the Earth. They did say that God was intimate and uses a s.... passage to support foreknowledge. I must say though I kinda enjoyed the "shell game" after all.
God can do anything He want for He is Sovereign. If He wants to give men a choice in whom they serve then no one can stop Him. One thing came out of the shell discussion was that if God did "foreknow" and knows all things then it is no big deal that He knows who believes and who does not. amen to that, Read the whole thread and see who said God did not create the "earth". I really don't believe someone who don't believe God created the "earth" knows too much about "foreknow". IMO,

Are you saying you disagree with your post?? Strange

 

[Brother Bob]

KJV say the whole earth. Maybe the Hebrew says world would have to look it up.

King James version (1611)

776 'erets eh'-rets from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):--X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, world.

 

[Jarthur001]

KJV say the whole earth. Maybe the Hebrew says world would have to look it up.

I said God made man, rocks, dogs in creation....and you reply...

Bob said...I don't see nothing about no rocks here James.

and I said...

I ask...1) Are rocks part of the world God made...or was rocks here forever?

and you said..

Bob say...(No, part of the earth though)

and I said..

THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

as seen at the link below..

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=890874&postcount=129


You're a trip. Must be nap time.

 

[l_PETE_l]

The idea of creation and humanity as God’s handiwork is very much a part of ot theology, and indeed quite important, even though there is no single term corresponding to ‘world.’ Probably belief in God’s fundamental and continuing role as Creator precludes any understanding of the world as an independent entity standing over against God.In ancient Greek thought and language, precisely what is absent in the ot becomes very important. The world or cosmos as an ordered system, the universe, was a phenomenon to be understood and explained as a whole. Far from being the result of God’s creation by word or deed, it was conceived as an extention, projection, or at least a reflection of the ultimate principle of reality which, in the Hebrew tradition but also in Greek thought, was called God. The concept of the world in modern Western thought owes more to Greek philosophy than to the ot, as our use of such terms as ‘cosmic’ and ‘cosmology’ attests.
Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row, P., & Society of Biblical Literature. 1985. Harper's Bible dictionary. Includes index. (1st ed.). Harper & Row: San Francisco

 

[Brother Bob]

) Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

Here I said that the rocks are part of the earth though of which they are.

THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Here James says the earth was not made by God
THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Genesis 1

"1": In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What you been drinking Jamie boy?

Here I ask Him about it and give him scripture.

THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Who made the earth then James?


Here I ask him who made the earth and no response.

 

[Jarthur001]

All one needs to do....is read the link...

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=890874&postcount=129


Now come on Bob. I know you believe God made the rocks, which is in the world. Why do you always have to be so hard headed???

 

[reformedbeliever]

) Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

Here I said that the rocks are part of the earth though of which they are.

Here James says the earth was not made by God
THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Genesis 1

"1": In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What you been drinking Jamie boy?

Here I ask Him about it and give him scripture.

You really do not know what question marks are, do you bob?

 

[Jarthur001]

)
Here I said that the rocks are part of the earth though of which they are.

Here James says the earth was not made by God
THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Genesis 1

"1": In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What you been drinking Jamie boy?

Here I ask Him about it and give him scripture.

Yes...indeed you did Bob ask these things. I over looked them back then. But if you read the link...it was you that got off track.

 

[Brother Bob]

In the world? Yes I agree with that.
A part of the world. Depends on what the world is. Jesus said I have chosen you out of the world and you are no longer of the world.

A part of the earth. Yes rock are a part of the earth I can say without a doubt.

Scripture says Jesus stood as a slain Lamb from the foundation of the world.

1. Is it talking about the creation of the earth.

2. Is it talking about when man sinned.

3. Scripture also teaches there is the world which we have been chosen out of and there is the Church.

 

[Jarthur001]

There is a Plan.
What is in the Plan?
Is freedom to believe in the Plan?
If freedom to believe is in the plan then that freedom is predetermined and set.


Notice Jesus was delivered over by two things

(1) The completed, settled, or determined plan
(2) God's foreknowledge

Here we go. This is it.

God has a determined plan. Calvinist say this. Freewillers say it.

Guess what...If man determines (freewill) the out come, then what does God do?

Who is in control here???

 

[Jarthur001]

Still waiting...

If God foreknows (as used by freewillers) before God predestined, this is hyper-Calvinism other then God is not in control. In this view, what God sees will happen, God must make happen, or what He saw was not really the end of things. God is limited and controlled by what man does. If God changes things in this view God would be changing what He foreknow would happen. If God did this changing, why did He not know about the change? God must do as He saw “done” in the future, or God did not really see the end.

 

[Brother Bob]

Originally Posted by Brother Bob
) Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

Here I said that the rocks are part of the earth though of which they are.

Here James says the earth was not made by God
THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Genesis 1

"1": In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What you been drinking Jamie boy?

Here I ask Him about it and give him scripture.

You really do not know what question marks are, do you bob?

Seems the proper question should of been asked if James knows why did James not understand the answer to the question he ask.

Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever?Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

I knew what a question mark was here and give an answer.
(No, part of the earth though)

But James could not understand a simple answer such as (No, part of the earth though) and followed it up with a remark God did not make the earth???? and said I love it :laugh: :laugh:

If James had understood the answer in the first place then He would not of made such a statement. I asked him about it several times and he never did straighten it out, so here we are.

 

[Jarthur001]

Seems the proper question should of been asked if James knows why did James not understand the answer to the question he ask.

Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever?Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

I knew what a question mark was here and give an answer.
(No, part of the earth though)

But James could not understand a simple answer such as (No, part of the earth though) and followed it up with a remark God did not make the earth???? and said I love it :laugh: :laugh:

If James had understood the answer in the first place then He would not of made such a statement. I asked him about it several times and he never did straighten it out, so here we are.

I'm sorry...when you said "no, "...I thought you meant no.

 

[l_PETE_l]

The foundation of the world is an epoch. Then time began

So He chose us before time began. Time began "in the beginning"

 

[Brother Bob]

I am sorry too for I misunderstood your answer to my answer. sorry,

 

[Brother Bob]

The foundation of the world is an epoch. Then time began

So He chose us before time began. Time began "in the beginning"

How do you know Pete that it is an epoch and not beginning of sin, when Christ calls the world sinners? Just wondering for I have heard this several time in my life.

 

[Jarthur001]

Sorry..I keep finding Gold. I love it when freewillers talk about their doctine.

There is a Plan.
What is in the Plan?
Is freedom to believe in the Plan?
If freedom to believe is in the plan then that freedom is predetermined and set.

This is what is called the "Doctrine of Double Effect". The idea is God gave freewill as a gift to be GOOD. Freewillers view this as a GOOD thing. Man now has the "freedom to choose good...in God. Now the double effect. With that choice, man can and does choose evil. To be fully free, God must make evil a choice. God cannot over power mans will. Mans will carries the power over Gods will. Yet..Gods plan is to say ALL mankind...For God died for ALL mankind...But choice has placed most men in hell.

 

[jne1611]

) Are rocks prt of the world God made...or was rocks here forever? (No, part of the earth though)

Here I said that the rocks are part of the earth though of which they are.

Here James says the earth was not made by God
THE EARTH WAS NOT MADE BY GOD??????? I love it!!! haha

Genesis 1

"1": In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

What you been drinking Jamie boy?

Here I ask Him about it and give him scripture.

Do you not see those question marks? He was asking you if that was what you were saying. Not making his stand.