The Fundamental Philosophical Identity of God.

[37818]

@RighteousnessTemperance&,
Thank you for your input.

 

[37818]

God is the fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths are self evident.

God being the uncaused existence in which all other existent things exist.

 

[Van]

The traditional arguments for the "existence" for God effectively deny God's fundamental identity.

Uncaused existence is the fundamental identity of God. God being the fundamental self evident truth by which all other self evident truths are self evident.

God is the uncaused existence. To deny God is to deny that, God is God, and is irrational. It is tantamount to saying there is no existence. God is the uncaused existence in which anything that exists must exist in. God being omnipresent.

Theists take God (Yahweh) on faith, that is we believe God is. Now there are many efforts to provide a basis or foundation for our belief. But they usually require "faith" to accept them.

Now some people deny the "Big Bang" and so forth, but I accept it again "on faith." As the theory goes, in the beginning was a "singularity." It was incredibly small, invisible so to speak. According to our understanding of the "Laws of Physics" it should have remained forever a singularity, as nothing could overcome the incredible power of its cohesion. But then, drum roll please, the singularity started expanding, and disobeying all known laws of physics. It kept on for a brief "moment in time" much less than one of our "seconds" and then voila, the expansion then started following what is now our understanding of physics.

What was the cause? We do not know. But I believe the uncaused cause is God. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

 

[37818]

Theists take God (Yahweh) on faith, that is we believe God is. . . .

First, anything anyone thinks one knows is what one believes. No exceptions.

Second, God's Name can be understood to mean, "the self Existent one."

Third, the original first commandment given to every individual Israelite, was who their God is, saying, "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage."

Fouth, genuine Christians actually know God through Christ.

What was the cause? We do not know.

". . . All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . ." -- John 1:3.

 

[HankD]

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him...

 

[HankD]

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

the KJV puts the word "he" in italics in John 8:24 which indicates that the word "he" is not in the original language text therefore the following is what it actually says (IMO):

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM, ye shall die in your sins.

 

[Van]

First, anything anyone thinks one knows is what one believes. No exceptions. Agreed

Second, God's Name can be understood to mean, "the self Existent one." Also God's name proclaims I AM, thus in existence.

Third, the original first commandment given to every individual Israelite, was who their God is, saying, "I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage." Agreed

Fouth, genuine Christians actually know God through Christ. Agreed, we know what we believe, as your first statement says.

". . . All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . ." -- John 1:3.
Agreed I believe the uncaused cause is God. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

So we are in complete agreement, even though the post suggests otherwise.

 

[37818]

Also God's name proclaims I AM, thus in existence.

What is in Existence is not the Existence. As a thing in a Box is not the Box. And a Box is also not the stuff in the Box. God's fundamental identity is the uncaused Existence. The caused universe in existence is not God.

Agreed, we know what we believe, as your first statement says.

Knowing a "what" is not the same as knowing the actual "Person." Knowing the One Who Is.

Agreed I believe the uncaused cause is God. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Yes and no. The yes we agree on, but maybe not the no. The uncaused Existence is God. Now existence and cause are two different things. Uncaused Existence is not contingent on anything. Uncaused Cause is contingent on uncaused Existence in order to be uncaused. All causes are temporal or nothing is caused! The uncaused Cause is both uncaused Existence being eternal and always a temporal Cause with uncaused Existence. Two different entities which are one entity. One common uncaused essence which contitutes a third entity.

So we are in complete agreement, even though the post suggests otherwise.

 

[Van]

What is in Existence is not the Existence. As a thing in a Box is not the Box. And a Box is also not the stuff in the Box. God's fundamental identity is the uncaused Existence. The caused universe in existence is not God.

Knowing a "what" is not the same as knowing the actual "Person." Knowing the One Who Is.

Yes and no. The yes we agree on, but maybe not the no. The uncaused Existence is God. Now existence and cause are two different things. Uncaused Existence is not contingent on anything. Uncaused Cause is contingent on uncaused Existence in order to be uncaused. All causes are temporal or nothing is caused! The uncaused Cause is both uncaused Existence being eternal and always a temporal Cause with uncaused Existence. Two different entities which are one entity. One common uncaused essence which contitutes a third entity.

No need to dispute the number of gnats circling the issue. God exists, He is the "I Am."
Did anyone say the heavens and the earth was God? Nope
Anything anyone thinks one knows is what one believes.
Did anyone say the uncaused cause was non-existent? Nope

 

[37818]

God exists, He is the "I Am."

Existence exists. Space-time is not God.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

What is in Existence is not the Existence. As a thing in a Box is not the Box. And a Box is also not the stuff in the Box. God's fundamental identity is the uncaused Existence. The caused universe in existence is not God.


Knowing a "what" is not the same as knowing the actual "Person." Knowing the One Who Is.

Yes and no. The yes we agree on, but maybe not the no. The uncaused Existence is God. Now existence and cause are two different things. Uncaused Existence is not contingent on anything. Uncaused Cause is contingent on uncaused Existence in order to be uncaused. All causes are temporal or nothing is caused! The uncaused Cause is both uncaused Existence being eternal and always a temporal Cause with uncaused Existence. Two different entities which are one entity. One common uncaused essence which contitutes a third entity.

Existence is not an entity but a quality, state, or attribute.

All caused causes may be temporal; however, the Uncaused Cause is not temporal, but eternal, unconstrained by time. Time is fully under His control.

 

[37818]

Existence is not an entity but a quality, state, or attribute.

Prove that uncaused omnipresent Existence is only a quanity state, attribute and not an entity in which all reality exists.

All caused causes may be temporal; however, the Uncaused Cause is not temporal, but eternal, unconstrained by time. Time is fully under His control.

Unless a cause is temporal it is not a cause and does not cause anything.

 

[Van]

Existence exists. Space-time is not God.

No one said space-time was God. Why are you misrepresenting my view?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Existence is not an entity but a quality, state, or attribute.

Prove that uncaused omnipresent Existence is only a quanity state, attribute and not an entity in which all reality exists.

Are you suggesting that existence is a person? Adding the adjectives seems to be an attempt to rename God “Existence,” but far too incompletely. He is the Living God. The word “existence” fails to make the same statement as “I Am That I Am,” or even “I Am.” It lacks personality, a fundamental flaw. God exists, but He is fundamentally Himself.

All caused causes may be temporal; however, the Uncaused Cause is not temporal, but eternal, unconstrained by time. Time is fully under His control.

Unless a cause is temporal it is not a cause and does not cause anything.

Are you suggesting that God is constrained by time rather than the one who created it and wields ir?

 

[37818]

No one said space-time was God. Why are you misrepresenting my view?

I never said you said space-time was God.

I did argue Existence exists. And I did qualify space-time is not God.

It was my responce to your statement, "God exists, . . ."

God exists, He is the "I Am."

My point being what exists need not be God. Furthermore God does not just exist, He being the Self Existent One is the uncaused omnipresent Existence.

 

[37818]

Are you suggesting that existence is a person?

Not mere existence, but the uncaused Existence.

Adding the adjectives seems to be an attempt to rename God “Existence,” but far too incompletely. He is the Living God. The word “existence” fails to make the same statement as “I Am That I Am,” or even “I Am.” It lacks personality, a fundamental flaw. God exists, but He is fundamentally Himself.

To merely say or argue that God exists, effectively makes God subordinate to existence. He is not. Uncaused existence needs nothing. So unless God is identified as that uncaused omnipresent Existence by which all other truths depend on to be, then one makes God less than reality.

Are you suggesting that God is constrained by time rather than the one who created it and wields ir?

No. With God there are three Persons who are that One God. The second Person, the Logos, the Son was always both with God and God. He is both the cause, subject to change or time and not.
. And aways being unchangable God too. The Son being the sole agent of cause from God, John 1:3.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Not mere existence, but the uncaused Existence.
To merely say or argue that God exists, effectively makes God subordinate to existence. He is not. Uncaused existence needs nothing. So unless God is identified as that uncaused omnipresent Existence by which all other truths depend on to be, then one makes God less than reality.

This didn’t address the point, which is that reducing God to mere existence with a couple of expansive adjectives is to make Him much less than God, even non-person. Again, God is fundamentally Himself. "I Am That I Am."

 

[MB]

Theists take God (Yahweh) on faith, that is we believe God is. Now there are many efforts to provide a basis or foundation for our belief. But they usually require "faith" to accept them.

Now some people deny the "Big Bang" and so forth, but I accept it again "on faith." As the theory goes, in the beginning was a "singularity." It was incredibly small, invisible so to speak. According to our understanding of the "Laws of Physics" it should have remained forever a singularity, as nothing could overcome the incredible power of its cohesion. But then, drum roll please, the singularity started expanding, and disobeying all known laws of physics. It kept on for a brief "moment in time" much less than one of our "seconds" and then voila, the expansion then started following what is now our understanding of physics.

What was the cause? We do not know. But I believe the uncaused cause is God. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Before creation nothing existed but God. There was no small particle nor was there space. There was nothing at all. God created the heavens and the Earth and yes even the space. He created all things. He created all things.

MB

 

[HankD]

Before creation nothing existed but God. There was no small particle nor was there space. There was nothing at all. God created the heavens and the Earth and yes even the space. He created all things. He created all things.

MB

Where did He live?

Don't laugh a graduate theology professor asked that question.

 

[MB]

Where did He live?

Don't laugh a graduate theology professor asked that question.

With in Him Sellf.
MB