From my side of the street, your straining at gnats.
No one said creation is God.
No one said Space-time is God.
No one said God just exists.
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The Fundamental Philosophical Identity of God.
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From my side of the street, your straining at gnats.
No one said creation is God.
No one said Space-time is God.
No one said God just exists.
Did anyone say God did not exist alone before He created everything that has been created?
Do we know God did not create the singularity, as part of His creating the heavens and the earth? Nope.
Do we know God did create the singularity, as part of His creating the heavens and the earth? Nope
In the beginning God created...
37818
Well-Known Member
Did God exist before creation ? If so then He lived with in Him self. God has always existed God has always existed with in Him Self No scripture to figure this out it was before scripture.
MB
Maybe I'm wrong but I do not think there is scripture that says. I considered before creation there was nothing but God. There would have been no heaven because He created Heaven as well. Nothing existed before creation. Where do you say He lived.
MB
37818
Well-Known Member
There has aways been the three Persons who are One God.
The Uncaused, The Self Existent One. Proverbs 21:30.
Uncaused Cause, both with and was Uncaused Self Existent One. John 1:1-3.
Uncaused Essense by whom they are the One. John 4:24; Romans 8:9; Romans 8:16. By whom we as Christians know God, John 17:3.
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You have no idea of what I considered. I said God lived with in Him Self. How does that differ from what you are saying Heaven is a place No where do the verses you presented say anything about the subject of where God lived before creation.
MB
Yes, God is everywhere, and is all knowing, and is all powerful. As far as I can determine, there is no issue.
RighteousnessTemperance&
Well-Known Member
The answer is essentially correct. God was with Himself, as always. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,” John 1:1.
Maybe it's time to start Part II of this thread: The Fundamental Philosophical Identity of God--Presence.
'Everywhere I could go, there I Am.' --paraphrase
The difficulty that we all have is that which is limited by the revelation of the Scripture statements.
Beyond that, all is pure speculations.
The Hebrews states that "whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."
So we all would admit that He exits, and that, in our being conformed to time and place, we do not have the capacity but to fantasize much beyond that.
We do know that this earth as originally created is not as it presently appears. That is from the opening of the Genesis. The sky (heavens) and the land (earth) were created. How did the perfection of Creation become a desolate thing in ruin ("without form, void")? The water, the land under the water, noting living, nothing of value (Genesis 1:2 a worthless thing).
Genesis lays out the facts, it does not go into intricate details. It lets the believer know that God does nothing without purpose and plan. He is taking that which is worthless and redeeming it for His own will. Bringing that which is of confusion and no substance to new life and to Himself. I am but dust. Worthless discard. Yet, He redeemed me.
Therefore, in my fantasizing, and because we know that God didn't suddenly become a creator, I would think that there have been a vast innumerable creations of eternity. Those in which God displayed totally for His pleasure. This one is special. This one He had to redeem.
Fundamentally, humankind, are limited to what God reveals of Himself.
And it is fun to fantasize, as long as we all understand that fantasy is not the assurance of facts.
Beyond that, all is pure speculations.
The Hebrews states that "whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him."
So we all would admit that He exits, and that, in our being conformed to time and place, we do not have the capacity but to fantasize much beyond that.
We do know that this earth as originally created is not as it presently appears. That is from the opening of the Genesis. The sky (heavens) and the land (earth) were created. How did the perfection of Creation become a desolate thing in ruin ("without form, void")? The water, the land under the water, noting living, nothing of value (Genesis 1:2 a worthless thing).
Genesis lays out the facts, it does not go into intricate details. It lets the believer know that God does nothing without purpose and plan. He is taking that which is worthless and redeeming it for His own will. Bringing that which is of confusion and no substance to new life and to Himself. I am but dust. Worthless discard. Yet, He redeemed me.
Therefore, in my fantasizing, and because we know that God didn't suddenly become a creator, I would think that there have been a vast innumerable creations of eternity. Those in which God displayed totally for His pleasure. This one is special. This one He had to redeem.
Fundamentally, humankind, are limited to what God reveals of Himself.
And it is fun to fantasize, as long as we all understand that fantasy is not the assurance of facts.
Why do you think that I said God lived with in Him Self.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. I know you are going to complain but I don't see that Heaven is anything like Earth How ever this verse proves Heaven was created and therefore part of creation. Before creation God existed with in Him self. God cannot be Heaven because Heaven was created. Now you are going to complain again and tell me there is more than one heaven. I will only admit to the possibility of different levels of Heaven, but not different Heavens. In Gen1:1 Heven is not plural it is single.
MB
“The heaven” (hassamayim) of Genesis 1:1, is rendered that which is visible such as the sky, the celestial were other planets and stars abide, and also refer to the abode of God.
It doesn’t always have to only be considered as the abode of God.
Because God is omnipresent (unlike Satan) He has presented a place of abode to humankind that mankind can conceptualize, but is found in the heights, the depths, between the toes, up the nose, in the heart, ...
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