The Fundamental Philosophical Identity of God.

[HankD]

You're getting the singularity from science and it is opposed to scripture it's not in scripture.
MB

Black holes are not in scripture but they exist.

 

[MB]

Black holes are not in scripture but they exist.

Have you verified that or is it a possibility. I've found that science makes all kinds of false claims. Prophecy is best left to prophets. They claim there is no God I say they are fools.
MB

 

[HankD]

Have you verified that or is it a possibility. I've found that science makes all kinds of false claims. Prophecy is best left to prophets. They claim there is no God I say they are fools.
MB

they exist. really,

but yes it is true fools are fools and IMO to be pitied in a way.

there but for the grace of God...

 

[HankD]

however it's doubtful if the singularity existed.

You are correct - fools needed it because they needed matter to already exist for the big bang and the evolution of life,
presumably all the entities to generate into matter were contained in the uncreated singularity - the size of a garden pea lol?

THE FOLLY? Who made the singularity

 

[HankD]

Have you verified that or is it a possibility. I've found that science makes all kinds of false claims. Prophecy is best left to prophets. They claim there is no God I say they are fools.
MB

the way to dismiss the question of who made the singularity is to say it is eternal going through an eternal undulation

SINGULARITY - BIG BANG - EXPANSION - COLLAPSE - SINGULARITY - BIG BANG ... ad infinitum ...

still begs the question - who made the singularity?

 

[MB]

the way to dismiss the question of who made the singularity is to say it is eternal going through an eternal undulation

SINGULARITY - BIG BANG - EXPANSION - COLLAPSE - SINGULARITY - BIG BANG ... ad infinitum ...

still begs the question - who made the singularity?

If there were a singularity and it exploded and made the universe. There would be no stars in the heavens.that we could see the rate of speed they claim stars are moving away from us. This is why I just don't believe any of there claims.
MB

 

[37818]

Why do you think that I said God lived with in Him Self.
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. I know you are going to complain but I don't see that Heaven is anything like Earth How ever this verse proves Heaven was created and therefore part of creation. Before creation God existed with in Him self. God cannot be Heaven because Heaven was created. Now you are going to complain again and tell me there is more than one heaven. I will only admit to the possibility of different levels of Heaven, but not different Heavens. In Gen1:1 Heven is not plural it is single.
MB

Again assuming God not creating anything. God being uncaused, infinite. Three Person, Uncaused, an uncause Cause with Him being both another and the Same God. One uncaused Essence by whom they are One God. Again infinite. A family, a kingdom, being only God and His uncaused agent of Cause. The fact is, in time, after creation, Matthew renders God's kingdom as heaven's kingdom. Add to this the fact that God does not change. [But His co-eternal Cause, both with God and so was God, is the agent of change, John 1:1-2, going from not creating to creating is a change, John 1:3, changed in John 1:14, John 1:18.]

 

[MB]

Again assuming God not creating anything. God being uncaused, infinite. Three Person, Uncaused, an uncause Cause with Him being both another and the Same God. One uncaused Essence by whom they are One God. Again infinite. A family, a kingdom, being only God and His uncaused agent of Cause. The fact is, in time, after creation, Matthew renders God's kingdom as heaven's kingdom. Add to this the fact that God does not change. [But His co-eternal Cause, both with God and so was God, is the agent of change, John 1:1-2, going from not creating to creating is a change, John 1:3, changed in John 1:14, John 1:18.]

Argue all you want to. God is the only thing to always exist. Everything else had a beginning.. Everything else could not exist if there were no God.. There fore God being self existent and infinit It is only logical that God was alone for a period of time before He created other things because all things are created except God. There is nothing that exist that wasn't created by God.
MB

 

[Van]

You're getting the singularity from science and it is opposed to scripture it's not in scripture.
MB

Did anyone say the singularity is found in scripture? Nope
I just pointed out the secular theory is consistent with scripture, relying as it does on the "uncaused cause."

 

[HankD]

If there were a singularity and it exploded and made the universe. There would be no stars in the heavens.that we could see the rate of speed they claim stars are moving away from us. This is why I just don't believe any of there claims.
MB

KNOW THIS - logic and reason have only a minor part in "origins" ala the world of false science disguised as truth.

 

[37818]

I will only admit to the possibility of different levels of Heaven, but not different Heavens. In Gen1:1 Heven is not plural it is single.

.The Hebrew translated "heaven" is plural. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1
The Apostle Paul was caught up to Paradise [*where it had been moved], the third heaven, -- 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.
[*is and interpreation of those in the upper compartment of Hades being moved to the third heaven when the resurrected man Jesus after 40 days ascended to be at the right hand of God.] Too many side issues.

 

[37818]

Argue all you want to. God is the only thing to always exist. Everything else had a beginning.. Everything else could not exist if there were no God.. There fore God being self existent and infinit It is only logical that God was alone for a period of time before He created other things because all things are created except God. There is nothing that exist that wasn't created by God.
MB

Now on the premise that in eternity past before any ceation there was never anything "with God." And creation was a change "with God" from never being anything "with God" to there being something "with God." [Of course that is an anti-Trinititarian interpretation. A form of Arianism]

 

[HankD]

.The Hebrew translated "heaven" is plural. "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." -- Genesis 1:1
The Apostle Paul was caught up to Paradise [*where it had been moved], the third heaven, -- 2 Corinthians 12:1-4.
[*is and interpreation of those in the upper compartment of Hades being moved to the third heaven when the resurrected man Jesus after 40 days ascended to be at the right hand of God.] Too many side issues.

Yes it is plural - except there are two plurals in Hebrew - plural and DUAL "heavens" in Gen 1:1 is DUAL according to the ending. The heavens of Genesis are two in number. Where the birds fly and where the heavenly bodies abide,

So the two heavens in Genesis 1:1 are the created heavens. Some (both Christian and Jewish, maybe Paul) contemplate an UNCREATED heaven wherein God dwells.

Just as an FYI some of Judaism believes "water" (naturally plural but not dual) is an uncreated entity - yes strange but apparently believed by some.

yes i took Hebrew - not much - 2 Semesters Classical, 1 Modern. 3 semesters Koine Greek.
Do it if you can.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

If by "they" is meant all scientists, the statement, "They claim there is no God," is not true. Some scientists not only believe in God, but in Jesus as Christ. The Bible declares that those who claim there is no God are fools, or that "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"

Science makes no claims, as it is merely a professional pursuit of man, like dentistry, engineering, etc. Scientists do not all agree on everything, and advances in understanding are made, the vast majority of which do not require explicit acknowledgement of God.

We should not fall into the trap of allowing atheistic scientists to define what science is or what it means, nor of allowing them to claim authority beyond their successes. When we do, we are being foolish, and also when we do not recognize the distinctions.

Have you verified that or is it a possibility. I've found that science makes all kinds of false claims. Prophecy is best left to prophets. They claim there is no God I say they are fools.

MB

 

[37818]

Unless the uncaused reality is a fundamental identity of God, then effectively God is denied. ". . . In Him [God] we live and move and have our being [existence] . . . ." --- Acts of the Apostles 17:28.

 

[MB]

If by "they" is meant all scientists, the statement, "They claim there is no God," is not true. Some scientists not only believe in God, but in Jesus as Christ. The Bible declares that those who claim there is no God are fools, or that "The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"

Science makes no claims, as it is merely a professional pursuit of man, like dentistry, engineering, etc. Scientists do not all agree on everything, and advances in understanding are made, the vast majority of which do not require explicit acknowledgement of God.

We should not fall into the trap of allowing atheistic scientists to define what science is or what it means, nor of allowing them to claim authority beyond their successes. When we do, we are being foolish, and also when we do not recognize the distinctions.

I have met a few who are Christian. The thing that gets me laughing is when you hear them on TV and they Call the universe "creation" although they claim everything was created by the big bang.
MB

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I have met a few who are Christian. The thing that gets me laughing is when you hear them on TV and they Call the universe "creation" although they claim everything was created by the big bang.

MB

Yes, the language is hard to avoid, and they probably don't even realize they are using it. For example, the word "creature." But they use all manner of words, including design, order, etc. They just try to attribute it to something not God. I also find it humorous.

There are many believers who work in scientific fields. The problem is too many people assume atheists with loud voices are correct in claiming that science is an antithesis to faith. But science requires we believe in a very consistent, rule-based natural world. “Doing science” would make no sense in an arbitrary, chaotic world.

Very often, scientists make statements about science that are really philosophical, or even theological, but they are so deceived by their training that they cannot distinguish.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Unless the uncaused reality is a fundamental identity of God, then effectively God is denied. ". . . In Him [God] we live and move and have our being [existence] . . . ." --- Acts of the Apostles 17:28.

That may have shown some progress, using “a” instead of “the.” Maybe you could clarify by describing those attributes of God that are not fundamental to Him but features added after the fact. That exercise may help understand the real problem here.

 

[37818]

That may have shown some progress, using “a” instead of “the.” Maybe you could clarify by describing those attributes of God that are not fundamental to Him but features added after the fact. That exercise may help understand the real problem here.

If merely just uncaused attributes no God or gods are needed. Two things are two things, no God or gods are needed in order for two to be two.

 

[37818]

Black holes are not in scripture but they exist.

• Well, maybe. ". . . wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever. . . ." -- Jude 1:13. There is what has been identified as black holes in our known universe. Personally I do not believe in "black holes." I believe escape velocity is a matter of energy, not the velocity. Any matter at the speed of light, we are talking about more energy than in the whole known universe!