The Heresy of Investigative Judgment

[OldRegular]

Problems with Adventist teachings regarding Investigative Judgment.

The following is rather long but the writer gives Scripture showing the fallacy of Investigative Judgment.
From:http://www.nonsda.org/study4.shtml

1. God already knows who are His own - Adventists teach that God must make an investigation to determine whose names to keep in the Book of Life, and whose to blot out. The Bible teaches that God already knows who the righteous are:

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep… (John 10:14)

The Lord knoweth them that are His. (2 Tim. 2:19)​

The Bible is very clear that God already knows exactly who is righteous and who is not. He does not need to carry out any investigation to determine who the righteous are.

2. God Knows Everything - One of the attributes of God's nature is "omniscience" which means that God knows everything that is possible to know. There is nothing that God does not already know.

Known unto God are all His works from the beginning of the world. (Acts 15:18)

Can any hide himself in secret, that I shall not see him? Saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? Saith the Lord. (Jer. 23:24)

The word of God is living and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature that is not manifest in His sight; but all things are naked and laid open to the eyes of Him with whom we have to do. (Heb. 4:12,13)

O Lord, Thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising. Thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou searchest out my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but lo, O Lord, Thou knowest it altogether. (Ps. 139:1-4)
Jesus did not commit Himself unto them, because He knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man; for He knew what was in man. (John 2:24)

Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray Him. (John 6:64)​

In 1844, God already knew everyone that was saved. In fact, before the world even existed He already knew the exact list of which humans would be saved and which ones would be lost. Why would God need to "investigate" something He has known since before the dawn of time?

3. When are sins blotted out? - The Adventist Church teaches the sins of the righteous are not blotted out until after the Investigative Judgment.2 The Bible teaches that our sins are blotted out when we repent:

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. (Isaiah 44:22)

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord. (Acts 3:19)

…and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. (1 John 1:7)​

4. Atonement completed at the Cross - The Adventist Church teaches that the Atonement is not finished until the Investigative Judgment is completed just prior to the second coming of Jesus. The Bible teaches the Atonement was finished when Jesus died on the Cross:

Jesus said, "It is finished." (John 19:30)

But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Heb. 10:12-14)​

The Bible teaches that Christ's atonement on the cross has perfected (past tense) His children. Christians are not made perfect during the Investigative Judgment period. If we are "in Christ," then we were made perfect 2,000 years ago through Christ's perfect sacrifice on Calvary.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom. 8:1)

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. (Rom. 5:9)​

5. Eternal life begins at conversion - Adventists teach that no one should say they are "saved" because our salvation will not be certain until we pass through the Investigative Judgment. The Bible teaches that whoever accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior has (present tense) eternal life:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not [his] brother abideth in death. (1 John 3:14)​

6. Cases of the Righteous have already been decided! - The Adventist Church teaches that "all" must pass through the Investigative Judgment to determine whether or not they will be saved.3 Adventists claim the Investigative Judgment started in 1844, but the Bible clearly shows that the cases of the righteous have already been decided long prior to the Investigative Judgment:

Thief on the cross: Jesus declared to the thief on the cross, "Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." (Luke 22:43). How could Jesus make a determination on the case of the thief prior to the Investigative Judgment? The thief's case was determined some 1800 years before the "Investigative Judgment" when he repented and accepted Jesus on the cross. This proves that Christ needs no Investigative Judgment to determine who will be with Him in heaven. Why would He treat us any differently than He treated the thief on the cross?​

Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: - The Bible says Abraham was justified (accounted righteous) by faith (Rom. 4:2-5). Nearly 1800 years before the Investigative Judgment supposedly began Jesus declared:

And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. (Matt. 8:11)​

Jesus did not need an Investigative Judgment to determine the cases of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, so why does He need one to determine our destiny?

Enoch: - Adventists claim that Enoch was taken to heaven (Gen. 5:24). How did God know Enoch could be taken to heaven without an investigation?

Moses: -Adventists claim that after Moses sinned and died he was resurrected and taken to heaven (Jude 9). If everyone's sins are not blotted out until after the investigative judgment, then how could Moses enter heaven?

Elijah: - The Bible says that "Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven" (1 Kings 2:11). How could God take Elijah before the Investigative Judgement was completed?[/indent]


7. When did Christ enter the Holiest? - Seventh-day Adventists teach that Jesus entered two times into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary--once at His ascension, and once again in 1844 at the beginning of the aypical Day of Atonement. The Bible truth is that Christ entered only once:

But by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. (Hebrews 9:12)

But this man {Christ}, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God. (Hebrews 10:12)​

 

[evangelist-7]

You definitely do not hold Baptist doctrine so I really don't know why you consider yourself one.

Moronic posts never cease from arriving on the scene.
I have never even hinted that I am Baptist.
Everyone must know by now that I am Pentecostal/Charismatic.
.

 

[evangelist-7]

This caught my eye ...
"... their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.
Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."

1st part ... 1 John 1:7-10

2nd part ... Jesus and all of the blessed epistle writers.
Dis is called "overcoming", vhich Baptists know nothing about. Too bad.
.

There are many NT warnings about our dire need to be "overcomers".
Here's one ...

Rev 21:7-8 • “He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God
and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers,
sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the
lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Perhaps some Baptist would be so kind as to explain ...
What does God's grace towards us have to do with us being overcomers?

Could it be that God violates our free will and does NOT allow us to habitually sin?
Hint: chastisement does NOT by any means guarantee our obedience.
IMO, free will is King! ... God or Satan is not King ... Man's free will is King!
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Bob, what do you think of Ellen White?
Do you believe her writings or that she was a prophet?

Yes I do. I but I want to make the case AND the "test" for all doctrine "sola scriptura".

Any true prophet or prophetess of God ... in the past and today ...
- will have received the baptism with the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of tongues
- will have one or more of the 9 spiritual gifts (1 Cor 12)
- will have been called to the ministerial office of prophet (Eph 4:11)

Such a prophet/prophetess of the Lord will teach that God's S-W-Ms should be utilized
while preaching the gospel, and to heal multitudes of people of a wide variety of problems.
Yes, exactly as done in the NT.

The forsaking of such has been instrumental in killing the church in Europe,
and has done great damage in North America as well.
Any great revival in our future can only succeed through God's S-W-Ms.
.

 

[steaver]

IMO, free will is King! ... God or Satan is not King ... Man's free will is King!
.

I am surprised that after your repeated blasphemies of God you are allowed to continue here on this board.

 

[OldRegular]

I am surprised that after your repeated blasphemies of God you are allowed to continue here on this board.

Where is the moderator? I agree that the post is blasphemous as well as idiotic. I started to respond but apparently this person and Ryan are in a contest to see which one can post the most trash.

 

[evangelist-7]

Please, someone just explain to the rest of us ...

How do BACs not have the free will to refuse to obey God?

BACs must be willing to be led by God's Spirit to be considered sons of God.
See the BB (Black Below).
BACs must be willing to co-operate with the Spirit's sanctification process!
.

 

[Amy.G]

Please, someone just explain to the rest of us ...

How do BACs not have the free will to refuse to obey God?

BACs must be willing to be led by God's Spirit to be considered sons of God.
See the BB (Black Below).
BACs must be willing to co-operate with the Spirit's sanctification process!
.

Baloney!!

John 1
11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is faith in Christ that makes one a child of God!!
Faith alone + nothing!!


Romans8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”


Those that are led by the Spirit are already a child of God. That is why they call Him Abba! No unbeliever will EVER follow God's Spirit! Only one who has ALREADY been born again of the Spirit will!!


You have a spirit of antichrist!!

 

[BobRyan]

"Meanwhile" -- Back to the Bible

The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on

investigating the records/books of heaven.

Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

...

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.



================================================
Paul and the future Judgment.

Romans 2

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And the "reward" for "Bad deeds"??? "The wages of sin is Death" Rom 6:23

John and the future judgment --------------=========================================

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

================================================== ===========

The saints and sanctification.

1 John 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.


Phil 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.



John defines what sin is
1 John 3
4 Whosoever commiteth sin, transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.


5 And ye know that he was made manifest, that he might take away our sins, and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither hath known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 He that commiteth sin, is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose was made manifest that Son of God, that he might loose the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God sinneth not: for his seed remaineth in him, neither can he sin, because he is born of God.

Originally Posted by OldRegular
It appears that the imagination of Ellen White trumps the Word of God in the mind of Ryan

Hmmm you realize of course your response to my position above - that quotes the Bible alone - puts you in the position of making no sense right?

Why do that???

More from the imagination of folks like Ellen White

Your response to my post of these Bible texts gets more bizarre with each response.


Why keep doing that??

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

John 1
11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

It is faith in Christ that makes one a child of God!!
Faith alone + nothing!!


Romans8
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”


Those that are led by the Spirit are already a child of God. That is why they call Him Abba!

Now and then - once in a great while someone opposed to my view will stray from simply engaging in name calling, or simply blindly quoting from a playbook-website - and actually post Bible texts in support of their real POV.

I appreciate it on the rare times that it happens - as in the case above.

But this thread is not about denying that a born-again Christian is in fact - a born again Christian.

It is about whether to accept the Daniel 7 preadvent investigative judgment - or to turn a blind eye to it.

Hence my text in response to the Romans 3 fact that all mankind has a sinful nature. Showing how the Daniel 7 teaching does not conflict with Romans 3 and that even Paul in Romans 2 affirms the Daniel 7 teaching of the Word of God.

If those who oppose my views were not so fearful of addressing the Bible points raised - i think the topic would progress much better.

==============================

In Romans 3 Paul explains that all mankind (Jew and Gentile) have a sinful nature and are condemned under the still-existing Ten Commandments - Moral Law of God - as sinners.

In Romans 2 Paul carefully separates out who "according to my Gospel" goes to heaven and who goes to hell.


===============================================================================
Romans 2

do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;


13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.



14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel,God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.



26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

============================================================

[FONT=&quot]Dan 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 ""I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 ""I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saintsof the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.


Rom 2[/FONT]
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

 

[BobRyan]

I will post the text "again" because it appears that the instict to "Bible-avoidance" by those who oppose this topic is a hard habit break.

====================================


The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on

investigating the records/books of heaven.

Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

...

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.

 

[BobRyan]

from playbook site

3. When are sins blotted out?

- The Adventist Church teaches the sins of the righteous are not blotted out until after the Investigative Judgment.2 The Bible teaches that our sins are blotted out when we repent:

Forgiveness in the Bible is based on God's doctrine on "atonement", and on His foreknowledge. A point many Calvinists miss entirely.

Enoch and Elijah go to heaven before Christ dies on the cross and before sins are blotted out from the record books of heaven. Individual forgiveness happens at the moment we repent and confess - and turn to God.

The reason that the Matt 18 and Matt 6 "forgiveness revoked" principle works - is because sins are not blotted out from the record books of heaven until the "times of refreshing" predicted in Acts 3.

Matt 18 "forgiveness revoked" is a subject of the Bible - often ignored by those clinging to man-made-tradition over the Word of God.

[FONT=&quot]32 ""Then summoning him, his lord said to him, "You wicked slave, I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 " Should you not also have had mercy on your fellow slave, in the same way that I had mercy on you?'[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]34 ""And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]35 "" My heavenly Father will also do the same to you, if each of you does not forgive his brother from your heart.'' [/FONT]


Matt 6

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive your transgressions.


There is a long list of other texts that disprove OSAS in the same way - such as those we find in Ezek 18.

=====================

Here is the Acts 3 statement

Acts 3
uffer, he hath so fulfilled. 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
KJV

 

[OldRegular]

Perhaps some Baptist would be so kind as to explain ...
What does God's grace towards us have to do with us being overcomers?

God's Grace has everything to do with His redeemed being "overcomes"!

However, you will never understand the Grace of God as long as you make blasphemous statements such as the following. You are to be pitied!

Could it be that God violates our free will and does NOT allow us to habitually sin?
Hint: chastisement does NOT by any means guarantee our obedience.
IMO, free will is King! ... God or Satan is not King ... Man's free will is King![/COLOR][/B]
.

 

[OldRegular]

"Meanwhile" -- Back to the Bible

The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on

investigating the records/books of heaven.

Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

...

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.



================================================
Paul and the future Judgment.

Romans 2

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And the "reward" for "Bad deeds"??? "The wages of sin is Death" Rom 6:23

John and the future judgment --------------=========================================

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

================================================== ===========

The saints and sanctification.

1 John 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.


Phil 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.



John defines what sin is
1 John 3
4 Whosoever commiteth sin, transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.


5 And ye know that he was made manifest, that he might take away our sins, and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither hath known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 He that commiteth sin, is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose was made manifest that Son of God, that he might loose the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God sinneth not: for his seed remaineth in him, neither can he sin, because he is born of God.

Hmmm you realize of course your response to my position above - that quotes the Bible alone - puts you in the position of making no sense right?

Why do that???




Your response to my post of these Bible texts gets more bizarre with each response.


Why keep doing that??

in Christ,

Bob

My response to the Scripture you quote is that none of them teach the Heretical concept of Investigative Judgment.

Your concept of God is not the Sovereign Creator and sustainer of all that exist but that He is a pencil pusher, constantly erasing and adding names to the Book of Life. FYI those names in the Book of life were there before the Foundation of the World and the same names will be there throughout eternity.

Those who are foolish enough to believe that God cannot keep what belongs to him must live a miserable life, never knowing when God will zap them into an eternal lake of fire.

 

[Amy.G]

My response to the Scripture you quote is that none of them teach the Heretical concept of Investigative Judgment.

Your concept of God is not the Sovereign Creator and sustainer of all that exist but that He is a pencil pusher, constantly erasing and adding names to the Book of Life. FYI those names in the Book of life were there before the Foundation of the World and the same names will be there throughout eternity.

Those who are foolish enough to believe that God cannot keep what belongs to him must live a miserable life, never knowing when God will zap them into an eternal lake of fire.

AMEN!

Bob does not see God as a loving and forgiving Father whom we call Abba! He sees Him as just waiting for us to mess up so He can punish us. But the Bible says that God is patient and loving and does not want to punish but rather discipline the believer in this life while always keeping His promise of eternal life!

 

[OldRegular]

In Romans 3 Paul explains that all mankind (Jew and Gentile) have a sinful nature and are condemned under the still-existing Ten Commandments - Moral Law of God - as sinners.

In Romans 2 Paul carefully separates out who "according to my Gospel" goes to heaven and who goes to hell.


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Romans 2

do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;


13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.



14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel,God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.



26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

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I keep telling you Ryan you need to get a Bible that has all the inspired, inerrant Scripture. You stopped short in your "cherry picking"! Consider what the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 3:

Romans 3:10-31
10. As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14. Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15. Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16. Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17. And the way of peace have they not known:
18. There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19. Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22. Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23. For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25. Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Don try to take it all in at one time Ryan. I posted the long passage in case your SDA bible does not contain them. Just consider the following:

20. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

24. Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

It is very important that you understand these Scripture so you will stop trying to work your way out of the "lake of fire". It can't be done as the Apostle tells us above. Man is justified by faith and not by deeds of the law. In fact man cannot be justified by keeping the law.

It is also important that you have access to the following Scripture:

Romans 8:28-30
28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Those whom God chose to Salvation in Jesus Christ He also Glorified! It doesn't say that He will investigate and if they were good little SDAers they will be Glorified but those He called, He Justified, and Glorified! No wills in the above Scripture!

Now if you believe that God is really Sovereign Creator and Sustainer of all that exists, and not just some glorified bookkeeper, you should have no trouble understanding these Scripture. Even if they are totally new to you.

 

[OldRegular]

AMEN!

Bob does not see God as a loving and forgiving Father whom we call Abba! He sees Him as just waiting for us to mess up so He can punish us. But the Bible says that God is patient and loving and does not want to punish but rather discipline the believer in this life while always keeping His promise of eternal life!

Well said Amy. Praise Him that He is a loving and patient Father. And praise Him that He does discipline us as a loving Father.

 

[evangelist-7]

You have a spirit of antichrist!!

Did the spirit of antichrist also explain to you what your John 10:27-29 is all about?
Every little tiny element of God's word needs to be explained to you.
Sorry, I don't have time ... t'would take 100 years!
.

 

[evangelist-7]

However, you will never understand the Grace of God as long as you make blasphemous statements
such as the following. You are to be pitied!

IMO, free will is King! ... God or Satan is not King ... Man's free will is King!

Anyone who believes that man cannot override God's grace towards him
must believe that the Lord has created a bunch of mindless robots.

Mindless in many case, yes, but NOT robots!

I've given up using the word "moron", so now I will say pathetic!

And your pal thinks you people are "Spirit-filled" ... when he has no idea at all what the word means!
.

 

[evangelist-7]

Bob does not see God as a loving and forgiving Father whom we call Abba! He sees Him as just waiting for us to mess up so He can punish us. But the Bible says that God is patient and loving and does not want to punish but rather discipline the believer in this life while always keeping His promise of eternal life!

Kindergarden has loaned us someone who has no idea of the meaning and value of words,
which is to be expected of an American kindergardener!

What do I use ... moronic or pathetic?

Everyone, please note da red.
.