Ok. I've been patient, but I'm tired of you. Your posts are going to be reported.
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The Heresy of Investigative Judgment
- Thread starter OldRegular
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
The Biblicist got kicked off for I don't know why. This guy blasphemes God and insults everyone except Ryan and nothing happens! Why!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I am correcting a post in which e-7 misused the quote feature!
thisnumbersdisconnected
New Member
Uh ... it's two words, and I think you're the one who may struggle with it's meaning, given it is not a phrase that appears anywhere in the Bible as you post it, which must mean (gasp!!!) it is a man-made term!
Ooops.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
You are 'quoting you" again to make your accusation against me.
Doesn't that bother you even a little??
I believe ALL of the Word of God - both John 3:16 AND Matt 18 and Matt 6 and even Ezek 18,, even Daniel 7 as in the case of this thread.
Which is why I am free to pay attention to the details on this subject and need not call you or anyone else here names.
Imagine that.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The Bible detail you provide in your response to the scriptures posted is "instructive" for any objective unbiased reader comparing Daniel 7 to your post.
Here is Daniel 7 for those who prefer - the actual Bible.
========================
I will post the text "again" because it appears that the instict to "Bible-avoidance" by those who oppose this topic is a hard habit break.
====================================
The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on
investigating the records/books of heaven.
Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
...
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amy hit it right, you simply repeat posting of the same Scripture. Or did I say that? However, you can post the passages from Daniel or any other Scripture you choose but they will not support Investigative judgment. Why you ask? Because Investigative Judgment is a heretical doctrine. That is the truth.
Same comment about your repetitive posting of Matthew 18 and 6 or any other Scripture. God keeps that which is His!
Yes, it does............... :sleep::sleep::sleep:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
Now see - agreement on at lest some point -- is not so hard to find.
in Christ,
Bob
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
No wait!
Are you serious?
You mean after those who started this thread and others that have come here - on a subject that is about the Daniel 7 text, where only I am happy to quote the "DETAILS of Daniel 7" and everyone runs from them... after all that -- still I keep coming back to the subject of the actual thread!!
And you are complaining about this "return to the subject of the thread" - the "Investigative Judgment"???
Is the new policy here "derail the subject of whatever thread you post on - and take no prisoners"??:tonofbricks:
How could you possibly know that until you allow yourself to actually LOOK at the Bible text that speaks to the subject??
Papal pronouncement maybe??
Ahhh yes! there it is the Papal pronouncement!
We need not look at the DETAILS in the Actual BIBLE when we can simply run on "papal pronouncement" to tell us when error is to be "named".
So true - I will take that idea of your "Papal pronouncement" vs my holding to Daniel 7 "details" or Matt 18 "Details" or Matt 6 "details" any day.
If you are happy with simple "harrumph" and papal pronouncement as the "substance" of your POV -- I am certainly happy with "actual Bible details" with the substance of mine.
As long as we are both happy with our free will choices - I think it is a win-win.
in Christ,
Bob
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I am serious! You are trying to use the Bible to prove a lie! Can't be done!
I sort of favor :tonofbricks::tonofbricks: when someone misuses Scripture!
I looked at the text. I have read the text. The text has nothing to do with Investigative Judgment. Investigative Judgment is a heresy, the figment of a woman's imagination, and that is a fact.
My Dad told me to respect and honor the Word of God. My Father through the Holy Spirit helps me understand His Written Word.
I certainly do not need Ellen White to instruct me in anything.
Seventh Day Adventism is largely a "woman made religion", and she is dead! The RC is largely a "man made religion" but they do have a live pope just to keep things straight!
saturneptune
New Member
There is a cultic link between the RCC, SDA, CoC, and LDS. They all warp Scripture, and deny the true nature of the Gospel with extra Biblical fairy tales. Ellen White has about as much credibility as Joseph Smith, who has about as much credibility as the Pope, who has about as much credibility as the town drunk or Rush Limbaugh.
My, my Jesus has been busy since the Resurrection. Aside from His trips to South America, His multiple crucifixions to cover slipping in and out of salvation, now we learn that He has to complete a dissertation paper starting in 1844. Between that and all of Mary's miraculous appearances, they must not see much of each other. Not only that, how Jesus saves everyone who is baptized in one of these four "churches" with varying times and places, it is a wonder He ever hears our prayers.
My, my Jesus has been busy since the Resurrection. Aside from His trips to South America, His multiple crucifixions to cover slipping in and out of salvation, now we learn that He has to complete a dissertation paper starting in 1844. Between that and all of Mary's miraculous appearances, they must not see much of each other. Not only that, how Jesus saves everyone who is baptized in one of these four "churches" with varying times and places, it is a wonder He ever hears our prayers.
Aw....now why you picking on Rush? I think he generally is spot on when it comes to politics. :thumbs:
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The Bible vacuous responses related to this Daniel 7 subject are not at all surprising for a Dark Ages style response to "inconvenient Bible details".
But why resort to the harrumph, pulpit-pounding vitriol and ad populum of the dark ages in this the 21st century? One might have presumed that those tactics died out centuries ago.
The most consistent complaint here and on a few other threads -- is that I insist we look at the actual Bible details that speak to the subject of the thread. I will gladly take that one.
So here is Daniel 7 for those who prefer - the actual Bible.
========================
I will post the text "again" because it appears that the instict to "Bible-avoidance" by those who oppose this topic is a hard habit break.
====================================
The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on
investigating the records/books of heaven.
Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
...
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
==========================
And so far where is the careful Bible student's response to "the Bible details" in the text above???? ....crickets...crickets...crickets...
How "instructive" for the objective unbiased reader.
Of course - I "know" there are in fact some posters "out there" that are known for their more "Bible attentive" response to challenging Bible chapters -- not saying they don't exist.
in Christ,
Bob
But why resort to the harrumph, pulpit-pounding vitriol and ad populum of the dark ages in this the 21st century? One might have presumed that those tactics died out centuries ago.
The most consistent complaint here and on a few other threads -- is that I insist we look at the actual Bible details that speak to the subject of the thread. I will gladly take that one.
So here is Daniel 7 for those who prefer - the actual Bible.
========================
I will post the text "again" because it appears that the instict to "Bible-avoidance" by those who oppose this topic is a hard habit break.
====================================
The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on
investigating the records/books of heaven.
Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.
...
13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.
==========================
And so far where is the careful Bible student's response to "the Bible details" in the text above???? ....crickets...crickets...crickets...
How "instructive" for the objective unbiased reader.
Of course - I "know" there are in fact some posters "out there" that are known for their more "Bible attentive" response to challenging Bible chapters -- not saying they don't exist.
in Christ,
Bob
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
S/N you hit one out of the ballpark, particularly the remarks about 1844.:laugh::laugh::thumbsup::thumbs:
You did miss one cult though, the Watchtower Society, better known as Jehovah's Witnesses; but then there is the Word of Faith bunch?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Ryan
If you would show how the passages from Daniel support the heresy of Investigative Judgment perhaps some Bible Scholar on the Forum would respond. But simply posting Scripture and saying, "There", does not prove anything.
I will concede there are many Scripture where the meaning should be obvious to the believer. However, there is nothing in the passage from Daniel that obviously supports Investigative Judgment.
If you would show how the passages from Daniel support the heresy of Investigative Judgment perhaps some Bible Scholar on the Forum would respond. But simply posting Scripture and saying, "There", does not prove anything.
I will concede there are many Scripture where the meaning should be obvious to the believer. However, there is nothing in the passage from Daniel that obviously supports Investigative Judgment.
BobRyan
Well-Known Member
The pre-advent Investigative Judgment in heaven - is shown in Daniel 7
Investigative: as in -- it is a judgement based on data/evidence contained in books of record. "the court sat and the books were opened" - this is highlighted in my quote
Pre-Advent: It is shown in the chapter to take place after the Roman Empire falls, after the 1260 years dark ages of persecution of the saints that follows the fall of Pagan Rome at some point - but before the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom.
It is also shown in the text - to include the saints as subjects of the judgment for "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". also highlighted in the text - in the quote.
Hence my repeated appeal to "Bible details".
in Christ,
Bob
Investigative: as in -- it is a judgement based on data/evidence contained in books of record. "the court sat and the books were opened" - this is highlighted in my quote
Pre-Advent: It is shown in the chapter to take place after the Roman Empire falls, after the 1260 years dark ages of persecution of the saints that follows the fall of Pagan Rome at some point - but before the 2nd coming of Christ and the setting up of Christ's Kingdom.
It is also shown in the text - to include the saints as subjects of the judgment for "judgment is passed in favor of the saints". also highlighted in the text - in the quote.
Hence my repeated appeal to "Bible details".
in Christ,
Bob
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According to the OP:
Ellen White claimed that the sanctuary had to be cleansed of sin. God's throne room in heaven has NO sin to be cleansed of!
The burden on proof is on you! You must show scripture in which ANY of this is taught.
Sola Scriptura!
So Bob, do you agree with these statements? Christ did NOT make atonement when He poured out His blood on the cross? Even tho He Himself said "IT IS FINISHED"? Is that correct?
Ellen White claimed that the sanctuary had to be cleansed of sin. God's throne room in heaven has NO sin to be cleansed of!
The burden on proof is on you! You must show scripture in which ANY of this is taught.
Sola Scriptura!
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