The Heresy of Investigative Judgment

[OldRegular]

The Seventh Day Adventists, Church or Cult?

Perhaps the following explains some of the opinions of SDA people on this Forum!

The investigative judgment doctrine, peculiar to Seventh-day Adventists, teaches that in fulfillment of Old Testament sanctuary typology, Christ entered into the second apartment of the sanctuary in heaven in 1844 in order to begin a work of "investigative judgment" to see who was worthy of eternal life, both of those still living and those dead.

A brief background for this teaching is called for. Ellen G. White, under the influence of William Miller, an early Adventist, agreed with his date for the visible return of Christ. October of 1844 was set for the second coming of Christ. Christ obviously did not return on that date, so in order to "save face" over a false prophecy, "investigative judgment" was born. 

SDA's use Daniel 8:14 in their reasoning.


In 1877, Uriah Smith, an early Adventist, declared, "Christ did not make the atonement when he shed his blood upon the cross. Let this fact be fixed forever in the mind”.

Ellen White herself declared (or plagiarized) in The Great Controversy that,"before Christ's work for the redemption of men is completed, there is a work of atonement for the removal of sin from the sanctuary. This is the service which began when the 2300 days ended." (1844).

There is even found in "The Great Controversy" this denial of Him as our absolute mediator. 

"Those who are living upon the earth when the intercession of Christ shall cease in the sanctuary above, are to stand in the sight of a holy God without a mediator. Their robes must be spotless, their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling. Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."

http://caic.org.au/biblebase/sda/investjudge.htm

 

[OldRegular]

Investigative judgment made simple, By Robert K. Sanders

Who would have thought it?

Note: LeRoy Froom, an Adventist leader wrote that if the church didn't have the Investigative Judgment message that, "One would have no justifiable place in the religious world, no distinctive denominational mission and message, no excuse for functioning as a separate church entity today." Movement of Destiny, p. 542.

Preface

The Investigative Judgment is a complex doctrine, unique only to the Seventh-day Adventist Church. It is complex because the Scriptures have been twisted and manipulated to make this doctrine appear Biblical. Most SDA Church members probably would not be able to explain it without SDA/EGW material in front of them to guide them.

The doctrine of I J has been the most controversial and debated doctrine within the SDA Church since it's invention. Ellen White put her visionary stamp of approval on the I J. and the SDA Church cannot discard this doctrine without admitting Ellen G. White was a false prophet. They have a tiger by the tail.

I hope to make the EGW's Investigative Doctrine simple to understand so that sincere Christians can see that it is without Bible foundation, and that it was the invention of religious fanatics.

Part 1

How Did the Investigative Judgment Begin?

Thousands of people from all denominations took part in the "Advent Movement" also known as "The Millerite Movement" and also "The Great Disappointment". These misguided people believed that Christ would return to earth and save them and destroy the wicked including those that rejected William Miller's "date setting" with hell fire raining down from heaven. The first date set for the "end of the world" was in the fall of 1843, then the spring of 1844 and finally they settled on October 22, 1844.

Needless to say all these failure dates passed without the Savior's return. Hence the term, "The Great Disappointment". The failure of Christ not returning to earth divided the Millerites into two groups. The largest group was led by Wm. Miller who renounced his belief of anything prophetically happening in 1844 and also renounced the SHUT DOOR DOCTRINE. The Millerites went back to holding evangelistic meetings and winning souls for Christ.

The splinter group led by Ellen G. Harmon (later the wife of James White), James White, Captain Joseph Bates and others held on to the SHUT DOOR DOCTRINE, that the door of salvation to the world was closed. They called themselves, "The Little Flock".

There was a rift between the Millerites and the Whites/Bates group. "The Little Flock" were trying to prove to the Millerites that they were not mistaken about the 1844 date and THE SHUT DOOR and that something happened. Ellen White blamed God for the failure for Christ not returning, as she claimed that God put his hand over the figures of the chart and they could not see their mistake. EGW claimed the figures were correct, but the event was wrong. She went on to say that instead of Christ coming to earth to cleanse the Sanctuary on earth, he move from the holy to the most holy apartment in 1844 to begin an Investigative Judgment to cleanse the Sanctuary in Heaven.

It was shortly after the October 22, 1844 DISAPPOINTMENT that the Investigative Judgment theory developed. The I J is not an ancient doctrine from the Bible but is of modern origin.

http://www.truthorfables.com/investigative_judgment_made_simple.htm

More to come!

 

[evangelist-7]

The Seventh Day Adventists, Church or Cult?
Perhaps the following explains some of the opinions of SDA people on this Forum!

This caught my eye ...
"... their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.
Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."

1st part ... 1 John 1:7-10

2nd part ... Jesus and all of the blessed epistle writers.
Dis is called "overcoming", vhich Baptists know nothing about. Too bad.

Gee, maybe I should join the SDA.
.

 

[OldRegular]

Ellen White Explains The Investigative Judgment

This is just the beginning folks!

Please read carefully and understand what Ellen White says to us from her book, The Great Controversy. In the chapter which deals with the event "that was foretold in prophecy to take place at the termination of the 2300 days in 1844," she writes:

"Attended by heavenly angels, our great High Priest enters the holy of holies, and there appears in the presence of God, to engage in the last acts of His ministration in behalf of man - to perform the work of investigative judgment, and to make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits.

"...So in the great day of final atonement and investigative judgment, the only cases considered are those of the professed people of God. The judgment of the wicked is a distinct and separate work, at a later period" (The Great Controversy, 1950 edition, page 480).

"As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected". (The Great Controversy, 1950 edition, page 483). "At the time appointed for the judgment –the close of the 2300 days, in 1844– began the work of investigation and blotting out of sins. All who have ever taken upon themselves the name of Christ must pass Its searching scrutiny. Both the living and the dead are judged 'out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works ". (The Great Controversy, 1950 edition, page 486).

"Though all nations are to pass in judgment before God, yet He will examine the cases of each individual with as close and searching scrutiny as if there were not another being upon the earth. Every one must be tested, and found without spot or wrinkle or any such thing". (The Great Controversy, 1950 edition, page 490).

"The Judgment is now passing in the sanctuary above. Forty years has this work been in progress. Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living." (The Great Controversy, 1884 edition, page 315).

From the foregoing statements EGW makes four points and we will examine each one and compare it to Scripture.
http://www.truthorfables.com/investigative_judgment_made_simple.htm

 

[steaver]

This caught my eye ...
"... their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.
Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."

1st part ... 1 John 1:7-10

2nd part ... Jesus and all of the blessed epistle writers.
Dis is called "overcoming", vhich Baptists know nothing about. Too bad.

Gee, maybe I should join the SDA.
.

Good eye! :thumbs: This also explains why the SDA agrees much with Mormonism, both at their core believe grace only kicks in AFTER ye do all ye can do.

You definitely do not hold Baptist doctrine so I really don't know why you consider yourself one. From all of your post, if I didn't know your affiliation, I would place you as Mormon.

 

[OldRegular]

Comparing Ellen G. White's Investigative Judgement With the Bible

EJW's Point 1: Determining Who Are Prepared For the Kingdom

EGW:

"This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of the investigative judgment" (The Great Controversy (p. 489, 1939 Ed.) (p. 428, p.1950 Ed.)

Robert K. Sanders

Did Jesus need the 1844 Investigative Judgment for the purpose of "determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God"? The Bible tells us that Jesus already knew who are prepared for his kingdom. This is an attribute of God which is called omniscience or having foreknowledge.

The Bible answers this question and tells us that Jesus knew who were his sheep 1810 years before 1844. On the other hand EGW tells us that Jesus needed the I J to determine who they are. Did Jesus forget who were his sheep since the first century and then have to schedule an 1844 I J to refresh his memory?

John 10:14 (NIV) I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me—

Jesus says in the first century, "I know my sheep". According to EGW, he should have said, I will not know my sheep until after 1844. Jesus told the disciples that when he sat on his throne, the disciples would be worthy of judging the twelve tribes. Jesus did not have to wait till 1844 to see if the disciples passed the I J test to see if they could judge the twelve tribes.

Matt 19:28 (NIV) Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes...

Paul writing to Timothy, did not say the Lord will not know till after 1844 who are his, now did he? Paul said, "The Lord knows those who are his".

2 Tim. 2:19 - (NIV) Nevertheless, God’s solid foundation stands firm, sealed with this inscription: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness.”

Paul did not say that he would have to pass the I J test in 1844 first, to make sure his forgiven sins have been blotted out before God would award him the "crown of righteousness".

2 Tim 4:7-8 (NIV) I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day—and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing.

It is clear that the I J is not to enlighten Jesus who are worthy. It is not to show the angels who are worthy as they record the deeds of mankind. It will not help the dead to know who the saved will be as they will not know the saved till the resurrection. There is no Biblical reason for the I J.

http://www.truthorfables.com/investigative_judgment_made_simple.htm

 

[BobRyan]

"Meanwhile" -- Back to the Bible

The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on

investigating the records/books of heaven.

Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

...

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.



================================================
Paul and the future Judgment.

Romans 2

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And the "reward" for "Bad deeds"??? "The wages of sin is Death" Rom 6:23

John and the future judgment --------------=========================================

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

=============================================================

The saints and sanctification.

1 John 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.


Phil 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.



John defines what sin is
1 John 3
4 Whosoever commiteth sin, transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.


5 And ye know that he was made manifest, that he might take away our sins, and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither hath known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 He that commiteth sin, is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose was made manifest that Son of God, that he might loose the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God sinneth not: for his seed remaineth in him, neither can he sin, because he is born of God.
.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

This caught my eye ...
"... their characters must be purified from sin by the blood of sprinkling.
Through the grace of God and their own diligent effort, they must be conquerors in the battle with evil."

1st part ... 1 John 1:7-10

2nd part ... Jesus and all of the blessed epistle writers.
Dis is called "overcoming", vhich Baptists know nothing about. Too bad.

Gee, maybe I should join the SDA.
.

There is this to consider as well as 1 John 1.

The saints and sanctification.

1 John 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.


Phil 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.

 

[OldRegular]

Like many of the cults that sprang up in the 19th Century the SDA claim additional revelation as do the Mormons, possibly the Jehovah's witnesses. Making a long story short following are some more pronouncements from the founder of the SDA.

Ellen G. White: "...

In 1844 Christ then entered the most holy place of the heavenly sanctuary, to perform the closing work of atonement, preparatory to His coming" (The Great Controversy, page 481); ". . . To make an atonement for all who are shown to be entitled to its benefits" (Ibid., page 456).

He [Christ] planted the cross between Heaven and earth, and when the Father beheld the sacrifice of His Son, He bowed before it in recognition of its perfection. "It is enough," He said. "The Atonement is complete." —The Review and Herald, Sept. 24, 1901.

I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down...Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. .. Early Writings, page 55.

As the books of record are opened in the judgment, the lives of all who have believed on Jesus come in review before God. Beginning with those who first lived upon the earth, our Advocate presents the cases of each successive generation, and closes with the living. Every name is mentioned, every case closely investigated. Names are accepted, names rejected" (The Great Controversy, 1950 edition, page 483).

"Forty years has this work been in progress. Soon—none know how soon—it will pass to the cases of the living" (The Great Controversy, page 315, edition of 1884).

"This work of examination of character, of determining who are prepared for the kingdom of God, is that of investigative judgment, the closing work in the sanctuary above" (Ibid., 1939 edition, page 489).

The blood of Christ, while it was to release the repentant sinner from the condemnation of the law, was not to cancel the sin; it would stand on record in the sanctuary until the final atonement; so in the type the blood of the sin offering removed the sin from the penitent, but it rested in the sanctuary until the Day of Atonement.

In the great day of final award, the dead are to be "judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Revelation 20:12. Then by virtue of the atoning blood of Christ, the sins of all the truly penitent will be blotted from the books of heaven. Thus the sanctuary will be freed, or cleansed, from the record of sin. In the type, this great work of atonement, or blotting out of sins, was represented by the services of the Day of Atonement--the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary, which was accomplished by the removal, by virtue of the blood of the sin offering, of the sins by which it had been polluted. Patriarchs and Prophets, pp, 357,358.

http://www.truthorfables.com/investigative_judgment_made_simple.htm

Living with the above nonsense no wonder the SDA's get all torqued up about the Biblical Doctrine of the Security of the Believer.

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Rom 3:13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
Rom 3:14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
Rom 3:15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
Rom 3:16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
Rom 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; ..

Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

In Romans 3 Paul explains that all mankind (Jew and Gentile) have a sinful nature and are condemned under the still-existing Ten Commandments - Moral Law of God - as sinners.

In Romans 2 Paul carefully separates out who "according to my Gospel" goes to heaven and who goes to hell.


===============================================================================
Romans 2

do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;


13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.



14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel,God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.



26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

============================================================

[FONT=&quot]Dan 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 ""I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 ""I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saintsof the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.


Rom 2[/FONT]
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

 

[Amy.G]

Bob, what do you think of Ellen White? Do you believe her writings or that she was a prophet?

 

[BobRyan]

Bob, what do you think of Ellen White? Do you believe her writings or that she was a prophet?

Yes I do. I but I want to make the case AND the "test" for all doctrine "sola scriptura".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Amy.G]

Yes I do. I but I want to make the case AND the "test" for all doctrine "sola scriptura".

in Christ,

Bob

Sola scripture invalidates Ellen White.

You are in a cult.

 

[OldRegular]

Sola scripture invalidates Ellen White.

You are in a cult.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[BobRyan]

Sola scripture invalidates Ellen White.

You are in a cult.

Name calling is not the same thing as sola scriptura testing of doctrine.

so... back to the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[OldRegular]

Name calling is not the same thing as sola scriptura testing of doctrine.

so... back to the Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

It appears that the imagination of Ellen White trumps the Word of God in the mind of Ryan and the SDA!

 

[BobRyan]

Since I only responded with a quote of the Bible - which of these bible texts do you say is written by Ellen White??

==================================

In Romans 3 Paul explains that all mankind (Jew and Gentile) have a sinful nature and are condemned under the still-existing Ten Commandments - Moral Law of God - as sinners.

In Romans 2 Paul carefully separates out who "according to my Gospel" goes to heaven and who goes to hell.


================================================== =============================
Romans 2

do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?
5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,
6 who will render to each person according to his deeds:
7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;
8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation.
9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek,

10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

11 For there is no partiality with God. 12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law;


13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.



14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel,God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.



26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?
27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?
28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh.
29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

================================================== ==========

[FONT=&quot]Dan 7[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]9 ""I kept looking Until thrones were set up, And the Ancient of Days took His seat; His vesture was like white snow And the hair of His head like pure wool. His throne was ablaze with flames, Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 ""A river of fire was flowing And coming out from before Him; Thousands upon thousands were attending Him, And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him; The court sat, And the books were opened.

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 ""I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saintsof the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.


Rom 2[/FONT]
14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people;
7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

 

[BobRyan]

"Meanwhile" -- Back to the Bible

The pre-advent Judgment of Dan 7 - based on

investigating the records/books of heaven.

Dan 7
“I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the hair of His head like pure wool.
His throne was ablaze with flames,
Its wheels were a burning fire.
10 “A river of fire was flowing
And coming out from before Him;
Thousands upon thousands were attending Him,
And myriads upon myriads were standing before Him;
The court sat,
And the books were opened.

...

13 “I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
14 “And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
...
21 I kept looking, and that horn was waging war with the saints and overpowering them
22 until the Ancient of Days came and judgment was passed in favor of the saints of the Highest One, and the time arrived when the saints took possession of the kingdom.



================================================
Paul and the future Judgment.

Romans 2

13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


2 Cor 5:10
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

And the "reward" for "Bad deeds"??? "The wages of sin is Death" Rom 6:23

John and the future judgment --------------=========================================

Rev 14:12
12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.


Rev 14:6-7
6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, having an eternal gospel to preach to those who live on the earth, and to every nation and tribe and tongue and people; 7 and he said with a loud voice, “Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters.”

================================================== ===========

The saints and sanctification.

1 John 3:3
3 And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.


Phil 2
12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.



John defines what sin is
1 John 3
4 Whosoever commiteth sin, transgresseth also the Law: for sin is the transgression of the Law.


5 And ye know that he was made manifest, that he might take away our sins, and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him, sinneth not: whosoever sinneth, hath not seen him, neither hath known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you, he that doeth righteousness, is righteous, as he is righteous.
8 He that commiteth sin, is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning: for this purpose was made manifest that Son of God, that he might loose the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God sinneth not: for his seed remaineth in him, neither can he sin, because he is born of God.

It appears that the imagination of Ellen White trumps the Word of God in the mind of Ryan

Hmmm you realize of course your response to my position above - that quotes the Bible alone - puts you in the position of making no sense right?

Why do that???

in Christ,

Bob

 

[OldRegular]

More from the imagination of folks like Ellen White who are not content with the Revelation of God as recorded in the Bible.

The doctrine of the Investigative Judgment is outlined in item 24, Christ's Ministry in the Heavenly Sanctuary, of the Seventh-day Adventist fundamental beliefs.[51] In the original Fundamental Beliefs of 1980 it was item 23, but when item 11 was added by the General Conference in 2005 it was changed to item 24.

There is a sanctuary in heaven, the true tabernacle which the Lord set up and not man. In it Christ ministers on our behalf, making available to believers the benefits of His atoning sacrifice offered once for all on the cross. He was inaugurated as our great High Priest and began His intercessory ministry at the time of His ascension. In 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, He entered the second and last phase of His atoning ministry. It is a work of investigative judgment which is part of the ultimate disposition of all sin, typified by the cleansing of the ancient Hebrew sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. In that typical service the sanctuary was cleansed with the blood of animal sacrifices, but the heavenly things are purified with the perfect sacrifice of the blood of Jesus. The investigative judgment reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Christ and therefore, in Him, are deemed worthy to have part in the first resurrection. It also makes manifest who among the living are abiding in Christ, keeping the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus, and in Him, therefore, are ready for translation into His everlasting kingdom. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus. It declares that those who have remained loyal to God shall receive the kingdom. The completion of this ministry of Christ will mark the close of human probation before the Second Advent.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigative_judgment

The ultimate outcome of those who become obsessed with their false interpretation of prophecy is sometimes tragic. Certainly, in the case of SDA, it has led to the heresy of Investigative Judgment.