The high cost of a believer rejecting Jesus Christ

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi David;

This blotting out threat, do you think God uses fear to keep us in check sometimes, I think maybe so. Jude also talks about showing mercy mixed with fear.

Why would God make a threat He wouldn't carry out?
Every warning that I can think of in the old testament, not heeded, were promises that God carried out. Not one did God ever back away from. Unless man complied.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

[David Michael Harris]

We are sheep to God and He know's how to control us.

I was a shepherd for a long time and knew how to control my flock, ( 1500 in total ) ( God has afew more I think

)

I had 4 dogs to help me.

Would He need to carry it out?

I never had a problem I could not deal with as a shepherd.

David
<°)))<<

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by OSAS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
OSAS, Why don't you think man is worth redeeming......GOD DOES!

Man turned his back on God, God didn't have to reconcile Himself to us. He could have laughed and let us all go to hell where we all deserve to be.

I think it pretty derned nice of God to allow His grace to save us wretched thangs.

</font>[/QUOTE]Don't think less of yourself than God thnks of you!
Don't think more of yourself than God does...either!

 

[ILUVLIGHT]

Hi David;
I was born and raised in Texas and although I never was a shepard of sheep though I have dealt with animals. I don't know about where you live but here everybody looses animals to the elements, to coyotes, and Puma. Some birds of prey will also attack sheep especially lambs. Let's not forget the snakes. To say you never had any problems I take to mean you never lost any. The master shepard Jesus, even He lost one. his name was Judas.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the Scripture might be fulfilled.
May Christ Shine His Light On us all;
Mike

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by whatever:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Wes, Outwest:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />When have I ever said that man was even worthy to be anything more than nothing?

OSAS, Why don't you think man is worth redeeming......GOD DOES! </font>[/QUOTE]From where do you get the idea that God redeemed us because He thought we were worthy of it? </font>[/QUOTE]Why do I have to do your thinking for you?

If God did not think of man as worth saving, He would not have offered His ONLY begotten Son to make our salvation possible! That is one magnanimous gesture on God's part concerning his Created man.

Does that raise man in stature? No, man will remain a created being for all eternity never equal to, nor as great as the creator.

Nevertheless, God sees us as worthy to be saved, he made it possible for us to be saved, and he saves every one of us who believe in Him. Those who don't believe, who have been in God's eyes, worth saving, do not get saved by God because they do not believe in Him. Really simple plan of salvation. God did all the work, and leaves it up to us to make the choice. If you do not think yourself as worthy to be saved as God thinks of you, and thus desire to be saved, then you will not, and in truth, do not believe in God.....to your own eternal detriment! John 3:18.

 

[Pastor Larry]

The Sacrifice of Christ was not an indication of how valuable we are. It is an indication of how worthless we are. We could do nothing, absolutely nothing. That is why Christ had to come. Eph 1 makes clear that salvation was about God's worth and God's glory, not man's.

The fact that God had to send someone to save us means we had nothign worthy in us.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The Sacrifice of Christ was not an indication of how valuable we are. It is an indication of how worthless we are. We could do nothing, absolutely nothing. That is why Christ had to come. Eph 1 makes clear that salvation was about God's worth and God's glory, not man's.

The fact that God had to send someone to save us means we had nothign worthy in us.

Larry, you are equating ability with value!

A silver dollar cannot spend itself either, but we value them enough to spend our lives earning them, now don't we?

God did not build into us us the divine power to save ourselves. Adam did not have that prior to sinning, thus we do not have it either.

However, God does value us enough to spend His precious Son's life to redeem us. We should respect that and likewise value ourselves enough to want to be saved through having faith in God.

We are not worthless nothings!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Larry, you are equating ability with value!

Where did I do that? I wasn't aware of it.

A silver dollar cannot spend itself either, but we value them enough to spend our lives earning them, now don't we?

I don't know of anyone earning silver dollars. Nor do I see the legitimacy of this analogy.

However, God does value us enough to spend His precious Son's life to redeem us.

Where in Scripture do you find this? I can't recall anywhere that God speaks of our value to him. The only thing I can recall is God speaking of his own value to himself. And in that, lies the reason for Christ's death.

We are not worthless nothings!

I agree. I don't think we are even that good.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Then you'd be quite wrong! And you insult God by saying that his crowning achievement in creating...man, is worth than worthless nothing!

 

[Pastor Larry]

I am quite right, Wes. The Bible says that we are completely sinful and sin is worth nothing to God. It is a reprehensible abomination to him. And when he sees us, he sees that sin.

We are in his image, but that image was marred by sin. When God sent Christ to save us, it was a statement about his worth, not ours. It was a statement about the worth of his own glory, not about the worth of our humanity.

The lowest man is still infinitely higher than the highest animal, but your approach does not reflect a proper understanding of sin.

I can't help but notice you have provided no Scripture to support this view of yours. Why not?

 

[Wes Outwest]

When you take scripture out of context and twist it like you always do you can make it say anything you are willing to believe. Have at it Larry! I will never agree with your foolish beliefs!

 

[dianetavegia]

Matthew 10:29 Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. 30 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

Luke 12:7 But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Do not fear therefore; you are of more value than many sparrows.

 

[dianetavegia]

Ephesians 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 5:1 Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. 2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

1 John 4:9 In this the love of God was manifested toward us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through Him. 10 In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Whoa Diane,

Larry might go into overload if you give him too much evidence that he's wrong at one time!

 

[Pastor Larry]

Wes,

I will put forth a challenge to you. Show one place where I have twisted Scripture or taken it out of context. I have heard that charge so many times from people of your persuasion, but so far, no one has ever been able to back it up with actual evidence.

Rather than attacking me, why not deal with the truth about sin and humanity?

Read Diane's verses. They say exactly what I said previously. She quotes the ones about sparrows, which proves what I said on teh bottom of the previous page, that the gap between the lowest man and the highest animal is infinite. Of course man is worth something compared to sparrows. We have the image of God; they don't. So her passages agree with what I said.

Consider teh second passage. Notice how it says that God did this act of saving because of His great love with which He loved us, (confirming my point that salvation is not about us, but about him) even when we were dead in trespasses, (confirming my point about the effects of sin) ... that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. (confirming my point that salvation was about his glory, not about our worth). He saved us so he could glorify himself.

Her citation of 1 John 4 shows that God's love was not because we were worthy of it, but because of himself.

Add to that verses like Rom 5:8 that God loved us while we were sinners, and therefore undeserving.

I could pile up a list of verses as long as your arm that prove me right.

So the fact is that I am not on overload. Diane just confirmed my point, unwittingly to be sure, since I am sure she did not intend to. But her verses show that what I said was correct.

Why not deal with Scripture? You will search them iin vain for any reference to our worth being a part of salvation. If you remember, I asked you on the last page to provide scriptural support. You haven't yet. Why?

 

[Pastor Larry]

Thanks, Diane, for making my point for me

 

[dianetavegia]

Pastor Larry, I was replying to this remark.

Where in Scripture do you find this? I can't recall anywhere that God speaks of our value to him. The only thing I can recall is God speaking of his own value to himself. And in that, lies the reason for Christ's death.

 

[Pastor Larry]

I know ... and you proved my point, with all of your verses. The point of Scripture is that the atonement is not because of the value of man, but because of his inability to do it for himself. God atoned for sin in order to pursue his own glory.

 

[Wes Outwest]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
I know ... and you proved my point, with all of your verses. The point of Scripture is that the atonement is not because of the value of man, but because of his inability to do it for himself. God atoned for sin in order to pursue his own glory.

Oh how you twist and turn!

 

[icthus]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
The Sacrifice of Christ was not an indication of how valuable we are. It is an indication of how worthless we are. We could do nothing, absolutely nothing. That is why Christ had to come. Eph 1 makes clear that salvation was about God's worth and God's glory, not man's.

The fact that God had to send someone to save us means we had nothign worthy in us.

Hey Larry, at last we have something that we can agree on I could not agree more, that it was because of God's great love for us, who deserve nothing but eternal damnation, that He sent the Lord Jesus to bear our sins. All of this was done for His ultimate Glory