The Idea Of Free Will

[Reformed1689]

The idea that it is the will of man that chooses whether or not to be saved is false.

The Idea of Free Will

You need to look no further than John chapter 1. It states that it is not the will of the flesh but of God.

 

[Revmitchell]

The idea that it is the will of man that chooses whether or not to be saved is false.

The Idea of Free Will

You need to look no further than John chapter 1. It states that it is not the will of the flesh but of God.

The context of John chapter one is not the will in whoever chooses to be saved. That is a misunderstanding of that passage and use of the word "will" in vs.13. When you look at verse 12 it shows that to them that believe He gave the power to become the sons of God. It is clarified in John ch 3 but should be understood anyway in light of how the Jews understood their own salvation. They tied their salvation in being a Jew and following the law. It is the following the law idea that sets up the context of "will"/ John was not addressing "synergists" or semi-palagians" in his gospel.

 

[MB]

The idea that it is the will of man that chooses whether or not to be saved is false.

The Idea of Free Will

You need to look no further than John chapter 1. It states that it is not the will of the flesh but of God.

Let me explain it this way. I do not deny that it is by the will of God that we are saved. It is God's will to save those who believe in Him. It is not His will to save those who do not believe in Him, and force them to believe afterwards. If a man would dare not to believe the man has chosen and He will not be saved because he does not believe. God does not want those who do not believe. There is not one scripture that states that God forces Salvation on anyone who does not believe. Calvinist claim that they were saved with out belief in Christ and made to believe afterwards this is not true.
MB

 

[InTheLight]

[QUOTE="MB, post: 2535519, member: 6404"There is not one scripture that states that God forces Salvation on anyone who does not believe.
MB[/QUOTE]

John the Baptist is a noteworthy exception. It could be argued that Saul of Tarsus is another. And Mary the mother of Jesus.

But, yes, you're correct.

 

[Reformed1689]

[QUOTE="MB, post: 2535519, member: 6404"There is not one scripture that states that God forces Salvation on anyone who does not believe.
MB

John the Baptist is a noteworthy exception. It could be argued that Saul of Tarsus is another. And Mary the mother of Jesus.

But, yes, you're correct.[/QUOTE]
So if there are some examples, that blows your claim that God does not do this out of the water. You just nullified your own argument.

 

[Reformed1689]

Let me explain it this way. I do not deny that it is by the will of God that we are saved. It is God's will to save those who believe in Him. It is not His will to save those who do not believe in Him, and force them to believe afterwards. If a man would dare not to believe the man has chosen and He will not be saved because he does not believe. God does not want those who do not believe. There is not one scripture that states that God forces Salvation on anyone who does not believe. Calvinist claim that they were saved with out belief in Christ and made to believe afterwards this is not true.
MB

Did you actually read the blog post? There are verses that show God draws people to himself and all that are given to the son are saved. That has nothing to do with the person and everything to do with God. WITHOUT THIS fact, NOBODY chooses God.

 

[InTheLight]

So if there are some examples, that blows your claim that God does not do this out of the water. You just nullified your own argument.

#6

 

[Reformed1689]

#6

How in the world did that fall into #6? I said nothing about mystery.

 

[InTheLight]

How in the world did that fall into #6? I said nothing about mystery.

Settle down...

I used #6, "it's a mystery" to describe my feeling as to why God chose to save these people without them believing first. It's the only scriptural examples of it happening. Otherwise there is:

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I Cor. 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

Settle down...

I used #6, "it's a mystery" to describe my feeling as to why God chose to save these people without them believing first. It's the only scriptural examples of it happening. Otherwise there is:

John 20:31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Ephesians 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

I Cor. 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.

None of those verses speak about God not choosing prior to their belief nor do they speak about God not enabling their belief. Obviously Scripture does not cause everyone to believe so there has to be another component.

 

[loDebar]

[QUOTE="MB, post: 2535519, member: 6404"There is not one scripture that states that God forces Salvation on anyone who does not believe.
MB

John the Baptist is a noteworthy exception. It could be argued that Saul of Tarsus is another. And Mary the mother of Jesus.

But, yes, you're correct.[/QUOTE]


no, they were obedient, some later than others, like Jonah. A purpose or specif calling is an opportunity to service, not predestination to salvation.

 

[loDebar]

None of those verses speak about God not choosing prior to their belief nor do they speak about God not enabling their belief. Obviously Scripture does not cause everyone to believe so there has to be another component.

yes, David, it is called it is called FREE WILL or Choice to accept the free Gift of Salvation, freely given to all who believe on the Name (authority) of Jesus

 

[Reformed1689]

yes, David, it is called it is called FREE WILL or Choice to accept the free Gift of Salvation, freely given to all who believe on the Name (authority) of Jesus

Which, of course, I do not deny. But nobody freely chooses God. They do not have the ability to because of our sinful state.

 

[InTheLight]

None of those verses speak about God not choosing prior to their belief

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb. Are you saying when he was a fetus he was a believer?

nor do they speak about God not enabling their belief. Obviously Scripture does not cause everyone to believe so there has to be another component.

Who is asserting that scripture causes everyone to believe? (Do I really have to press #4?)

Anyone who believes does so because they have heard the Gospel.
Not everyone that hears the Gospel will believe.

 

[Reformed1689]

John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit in the womb. Are you saying when he was a fetus he was a believer?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

Who is asserting that scripture causes everyone to believe? (Do I really have to press #4?)

No I did not say that. Read my post again.

Anyone who believes does so because they have heard the Gospel.
Not everyone that hears the Gospel will believe.

That's precisely my point. So there is another factor than just the Gospel. What is it? Scripture tells us it is God drawing men unto Himself. Whe is He drawing them? Because He chose those men (and women) before the foundation of the world.

 

[MB]

Did you actually read the blog post? There are verses that show God draws people to himself and all that are given to the son are saved. That has nothing to do with the person and everything to do with God. WITHOUT THIS fact, NOBODY chooses God.

You made a false statement.. This below is false.
"The idea that it is the will of man that chooses whether or not to be saved is false."

Then explain this verse;
Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
I'll bet you can't show just one verse that supports God saving men with out faith.
MB

 

[loDebar]

Which, of course, I do not deny. But nobody freely chooses God. They do not have the ability to because of our sinful state.

no , they do not have the propensity, the aptitude to do right. We choose to sin, we continue in sin it makes it harder not to sin

We choose God , the easier it is to rebuff temptation and choose good

 

[Reformed1689]

I'll bet you can't show just one verse that supports God saving men with out faith.

And I bet you can't show one post where I actually claimed that.

no , they do not have the propensity, the aptitude to do right. We choose to sin, we continue in sin it makes it harder not to sin

We choose God , the easier it is to rebuff temptation and choose good

Ok, you just gave two polar opposite statements. We do not have ability to choose right but we can choose God. Those two statements can't coexist.

 

[loDebar]

And I bet you can't show one post where I actually claimed that.



Ok, you just gave two polar opposite statements. We do not have ability to choose right but we can choose God. Those two statements can't coexist.

What did I write? ... We have choice and it is easier to continue in that choice bad or good. If we choose sin continuously we are probably gonna continue in sin,, We choose good or God then it more to choose good, it is maturity.

If there is no freedom of choice then we say God causes sin,, no it is our disobedience

 

[MB]

And I bet you can't show one post where I actually claimed that.

I asked you first. What's the matter can't you prove what you are saying?