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The Jehovah’s Witnesses and The Holy Spirit

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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
The "subordination" only applies to the time that Christ was on earth. It is not within the Godhead as the Deity of each Person. This is an impossibility
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Eternal Subordination is a big error being held and taught even among really good authors!
 
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Yeshua1

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SavedByGrace said:
If you read what I have said, grammatically the KJV is quite right, with the words being neuter in gender. But both Biblically and theologically, this reading is incorrect.
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Just curious as to why they agreed to translate in that fashion?
 
37818

37818

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SavedByGrace said:
The Bible teaches that the Father is Yahweh; that Jesus Christ is Yahweh. and the Holy Spirit is Yahweh.
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This truth is not at issue.
SavedByGrace said:
So, regardless of the terms "Father", and "Son" and the Father "sending" the Son, etc, they are still 100% COEQUAL.
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As the one and the same God. But yet distinct Persons.

The Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit being the One Yahweh were always the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. In that they have never changed.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
This truth is not at issue.
As the one and the same God. But yet distinct Persons.

The Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit being the One Yahweh were always the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit. In that they have never changed.
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In the Old Testament, Jesus Christ is called "malakh YHWH", that is "The Messenger of Yahweh", Who is also called Yahweh Himself. I am of the belief that Sonship is Incarnational and not always, even though it is mentioned in the OT, it is done in Prophecy.

Hebrews 1:5, "And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" and Psalm 2:7, "I will proclaim the decree spoken to Me by the LORD: "You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.". Both speaking of the Incarnation and not an eternal thing.
 
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Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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SavedByGrace said:
In the Old Testament, Jesus Christ is called "malakh YHWH", that is "The Messenger of Yahweh", Who is also called Yahweh Himself. I am of the belief that Sonship is Incarnational and not always, even though it is mentioned in the OT, it is done in Prophecy.

Hebrews 1:5, "And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" and Psalm 2:7, "I will proclaim the decree spoken to Me by the LORD: "You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.". Both speaking of the Incarnation and not an eternal thing.
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before the Incarnation, was he not Jesus, but the eternal Word of the father?
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
Eternal Subordination is a big error being held and taught even among really good authors!
Click to expand...
Eternal subordination only applies if the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit were and always the three distinct Persons but never being any suborudination in being the One Yehwah.
 
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Yeshua1

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37818 said:
Eternal subordination only applies if the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit were and always the three distinct Persons but never being any suborudination in being the One Yehwah.
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I think the point is though that Jesus did not "need" the father in order to also be God!
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
In the Old Testament, Jesus Christ is called "malakh YHWH", that is "The Messenger of Yahweh", Who is also called Yahweh Himself. I am of the belief that Sonship is Incarnational and not always, even though it is mentioned in the OT, it is done in Prophecy.

Hebrews 1:5, "And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?" and Psalm 2:7, "I will proclaim the decree spoken to Me by the LORD: "You are My Son; today I have become Your Father.". Both speaking of the Incarnation and not an eternal thing.
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All appearances of Yehwah is the Son ( per John 1:18). Yes, both Hebrews 1:5 and Psalms 2:7 refer to the resurrected incatnate Son (Acts of the Apostles 13:33, Romans 1:4).
 
37818

37818

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
I think the point is though that Jesus did not "need" the father in order to also be God!
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So is that your way of denying the eternaly of the Father, the Son of God and the Holy Spirit to have always to be so in the Trinity? There are Christians who believe that began with the incarnation.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
37818 said:
All appearances of Yehwah is the Son ( per John 1:18). Yes, both Hebrews 1:5 and Psalms 2:7 refer to the resurrected incatnate Son (Acts of the Apostles 13:33, Romans 1:4).
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I differ, as there is good evidence to show that these passages refer to the Inarnation. In what was was Jesus "begotten" at His Resurrescion? Surely it should read "reborn", rather than "begot"?
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
before the Incarnation, was he not Jesus, but the eternal Word of the father?
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Jesus is His Name, meaning "Saviour", and not prior to the Incarnation where He is not called this in the Old Testament. I am not sure what you mean by, "but the eternal Word of the father?", this sound like subordination to me?
 
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