Some might think that when it stated that Jesus returns with the voice of the archangel, that means that he was Michael?
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The Jehovah’s Witnesses and The Holy Spirit
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
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But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Heb 2:6
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, From Heb 2:9
Was the higher worshiping the lower?
Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: Phil 2:9
What name did he give him and when was it given to him?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Jesus Christ is eternally Almighty God. For the purpose of salvation He became the God-Man at His Incarnation, as passages like Phipippians 2:5-11 teach. During His time on earth, He was subject to the Father, and a Servant and died on the cross for the sins of mankind. For this period Jesus was in a sense "made a little lower than the angels", of whom He is eternally their Lord and God. This time is also known as that of His "humility". Versions like the KJV fail to show the actual meaning of the Greek text, which really is very important, "But we see him who for a little while (βρᾰχύς, a short time) was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.". As this is limited to Jesus' duration while on earth. As we can see from passages like Phipippians 2:5-11, even though Jesus "became flesh" (also John 1:1,14), yet He always remained Almighty God, which is seen in "μορφη θεου" (the very nature of God), in which Jesus remained (υπαρχων, existing), even after His Incarnation. As He IS Almighty God, He could never cease to be God in His nature, and was always Worshipped as Almighty God, even during His time on earth, where there are a number of instances where He was worshipped, and never forbade it (see, Matthew 14:33; 28:9; Luke 24:52; Hebrews 1:6, etc)
The answer to your next question, is in the next verse, 10, "Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the Name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth. You will notice that the Apostle Paul here quotes from Isaiah 45:23, where the Speaker is Yahweh, "By Myself I have sworn; from My mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return: ‘To Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance". By doing so, Paul here shows the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who IS eternally YAHWEH.
37818
Well-Known Member
Were is it taught in the Bilbe that "Jesus is God."? See.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
JEHOVAH AND JESUS CHRIST
MIGHTY GOD
Isaiah 10:21 (Jehovah)
“The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God”
Isaiah 9:6 (Jesus Christ)
“His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”
CREATOR
Psalm 102:25-27 (Jehovah)
“Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will have no end”
Hebrews 1:10-21 (Jesus Christ)
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail”
SAVIOUR
Isaiah 43:11 (Jehovah)
“I, even I, am the Lord, And besides Me there is no Saviour.”
Luke 2:11 (Jesus Christ)
“ For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Saviour, who is Christ the Lord”
THE FIRST AND THE LAST (Eternal and Uncreated)
Isaiah 44:6 (Jehovah)
“I am the First and I am the Last”
Revelation 1:17 (Jesus Christ)
“I am the First and the Last”
ETERNAL AND UNCREATED
Revelation 1:8 (Jehovah)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End,” says the Lord”
Revelation 22:13 (Jesus Christ)
“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last”
EQUAL WORSHIP
Isaiah 45:23 (Jehovah)
“That to Me every knee shall bow, Every tongue shall take an oath”
Philippians 2:10 (Jesus Christ)
“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth” (Hebrews 1:6, “And let all God’s angels worship him”, - Kingdom Interlinear)
EQUAL POWER AND PROTECTION
Isaiah 43:13 (Jehovah)
“I am He; And there is no one who can deliver out of My hand”
John 10:28 (Jesus Christ)
“And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand”
ETERNAL GLORY
Isaiah 42:8 (Jehovah 42:8)
“I am the Lord, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another”
John 17:5 (Jesus Christ)
“And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was”
EQUAL BLESSING, HONOUR, GLORY, MIGHT AND WORSHIP
Revelation 5:13-14 (Jehovah and Jesus Christ)
“And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, the Blessing, and the honour, and the glory, and the might, be to Him that sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped”
37818
Well-Known Member
οτι That
αυτος Himself
ο κυριος the Lord
εν in
κελευσματι command
εν in
φωνη voice
αρχαγγελου of Archangel . . .
37818
Well-Known Member
Is the Angel of the LORD a created being? Zechariah 3:1 . . .
37818
Well-Known Member
You do not hear very well. None of those referencee say, quote "Jesus is God" unquote.
The Angel of the Lord is the preincarnate Christ. not Michael!
Are you saying that Jesus is not?
before Abraham was, I AM
Jesus is not an Archangel!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
If Jesus is Jehovah, and Mighty God, then what exactly does this mean, if not that He IS GOD? You make your claims that are not based on the Holy Bible, and attack when evidence is produced from the Bible, that you don't agree with? Can you explain Isaiah 9:6, where Jesus is "The Mighty God" (El Gibbor), which is the exact same Hebrew used in 10:21 (El Gibbor), where it is Jehovah?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I suspect this person is a Jehovah's Witness
37818
Well-Known Member
How do you know that the Angel of the LORD is not and cannot be the Archangel? Zechariah 3:2.
The Pharisees understood his claim to being the God of the Hebrews, as they got him nailed upon the Cross for "claiming to be God"
Micheal is NEVER identified as being God, but the Angel of the Lord was!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
If Yeshua1 does not mind here, I would like to give my response to this. Firstly, as I have brirfly shown in the link in #85, "the Angel of the LORD", is the Lord Jesus Christ, in His pre-Incarnate Appearances in the Old Testament. Secondly, there is NO Biblical evidence that teaches that Michael, who is the Archangel, is Jesus Christ. Thirdly, As the Bible cleary teaches that God created ALL the heavenly hosts, including angels, are created beings: "Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts...Let them praise the name of the Lord: for he commanded, and they were created (bârâʼ)" (Psalm 148:2, 5). Fourthly, Jesus Christ is called both in the Old Testament, and New Testament, YAHWEH", The Name which means, "the uncreated, eternal One"; which makes it impossible for Jesus Christ to be a created being, which is what Michael the Archangel is!
37818
Well-Known Member
You really do not understand. The Person who is the Man Jesus Christ is also Yehwah too. And is not at issue. God is not a man (Hosea 11:9) and the man is not God (1 Timothy 2:5). Now the Son of God is now both. And this is not at issue. What is at issue is asking to prove something that is true that is not found in the Bible. Such as Trinitarians who believe Jesus and the Archangel are the same person because the Son of God is the Angel of the LORD/Yehwah.
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