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The KJV has been Preserved more Perfectly than Human Possibility.

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Conan

Well-Known Member
Isn't it, in the words of our bodies that were "fearfully and wonderfully made", wouldn't you consider the KJV, as "fearfully and wonderfully made", Bible?

Ridiculous! Its like you have no real knowledge of the Bibles that went before it. The real Bibles that men were executed and tortured and persecuted for coming into being. The right of the English to have a Bible was fought and won before the KJV was even an idea.

Pan, the god of mischief, was he wonderfully made in the 1611 KJV? Was printing errors wonderfully made in the KJV? Were all of the changes to the original text of the KJV wonderfully made? THE KJV was/is a very good version. But to call it wonderfully made is to exalt the mistakes of men, and to make it into something it's not.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
For me to express a disparaging opinion of the KJV that is derogatory like,

Pan, the god of mischief, was he wonderfully made in the 1611 KJV? Was printing errors wonderfully made in the KJV? Were all of the changes to the original text of the KJV wonderfully made?

or

But to call it wonderfully made is to exalt the mistakes of men, and to make it into something it's not.

as if it could be of little worth, is the furthest religious belief from the expression or confession I would like to convey.
 

AVL1984

<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
Nothing has been said about the "perfect" KJV, has there?

My statement is:



From: Best 5 Translations ?

"Where was the Word of God prior to 1611?

from: NON-RUCKMANITE ANSWERS TO ANTI-KJV QUESTIONS
by Jeffrey Khoo.


"Well, the Word of God is found in * the divinely inspired and perfectly preserved Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures used and recognized by the Church down through the ages, and in all the faithful and reliable translations that were based on those Texts, viz,

Martin Luther’s German Bible (1522),
William Tyndale’s Bible (1525),
Myles Coverdale’s Bible (1535),
The Matthew’s Bible (1537),
The Great Bible (1539-41),
and The Geneva Bible (1557-60).

"It is significant to note that prior to the KJV, the English translations were largely individual efforts.

"The KJV on the other hand is a corporate work.

"In the words of the translators,
the KJV was not produced “to make a bad one a good one;
but to make a good one better,
or out of many good ones one principal good one.”

"For this purpose and with such devotion the KJV translation committee was formed..."

* I will qualify, "the divinely inspired and perfectly preserved Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures", as "divinely inspired and perfectly preserved", by the Transcendent Superindendance of the Spirit of God to result in the "Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures", not having Plenary Inspiration but being Suffeciantly Inspired as the result of their origin and preserved more perfectly than humanly possible.

Same with the KJV.

Produced overall more perfectly than humanly possible.





I am not KJVO by any stretch of the imagination.
Nothing has been said about the "perfect" KJV, has there?

My statement is:



From: Best 5 Translations ?

"Where was the Word of God prior to 1611?

from: NON-RUCKMANITE ANSWERS TO ANTI-KJV QUESTIONS
by Jeffrey Khoo.


"Well, the Word of God is found in * the divinely inspired and perfectly preserved Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures used and recognized by the Church down through the ages, and in all the faithful and reliable translations that were based on those Texts, viz,

Martin Luther’s German Bible (1522),
William Tyndale’s Bible (1525),
Myles Coverdale’s Bible (1535),
The Matthew’s Bible (1537),
The Great Bible (1539-41),
and The Geneva Bible (1557-60).

"It is significant to note that prior to the KJV, the English translations were largely individual efforts.

"The KJV on the other hand is a corporate work.

"In the words of the translators,
the KJV was not produced “to make a bad one a good one;
but to make a good one better,
or out of many good ones one principal good one.”

"For this purpose and with such devotion the KJV translation committee was formed..."

* I will qualify, "the divinely inspired and perfectly preserved Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures", as "divinely inspired and perfectly preserved", by the Transcendent Superindendance of the Spirit of God to result in the "Traditional Text of OT and NT Scriptures", not having Plenary Inspiration but being Suffeciantly Inspired as the result of their origin and preserved more perfectly than humanly possible.

Same with the KJV.

Produced overall more perfectly than humanly possible.





I am not KJVO by any stretch of the imagination.

My, you seem to take my response personally....could it be I hit a nerve? Nobody accused you of being KJVO...From your post, it's implied that the KJVO is the "perfect" translation of the Bible to the exclusion of other translations. It almost seems you're supporting double-inspiration.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
.From your post, it's implied that the KJVO is the "perfect" translation of the Bible

What is "the KJVO" supposed to be?

Could you have KJVO on your brain too much?

" more Perfectly" = not perfect

The comment is that it is more perfect than human beings could have accomplished without Supernatural aid.

The Integrity of the KJV does have the imprimatur of Divinity, doesn't it?
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Since you do not want to answer my question - then I am out of here!

Your question is this?

why are you afraid to admit that?

So, I'm afraid.

Excuse me.

I thought I said, "The KJV has been Preserved more Perfectly than Humanly Possible."

"Human Possibility" changed to what it should be, "Humanly Possible."


I don't know what everyone else thinks I was saying.

I said this about that;

"However, I also confess that the promises of preservation are specifically made for Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words, not English words (Matthew 5:18) and that there are no specific promises that state that Scripture would be translated without error.

"Since no verses of the Bible promise a perfect English translation, I respect the views of brethren who, while receiving the promises of God concerning the preservation of His perfect Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek words, believe that there are places where the English of the King James Version would be better-rendered otherwise.13



 
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Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
"The KJV has been Preserved more Perfectly than Humanly Possible.”
Rather hard to fathom, Alan!
Besides the numerous revisions and corrections,
And besides the failure to include the translator’s preface,
Whole books have been deleted from the original version.

How perfectly preserved it that?

Rob
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Integrity of the KJV does have the imprimatur of Divinity, doesn't it?

Not anymore than the pre-1611 English Bibles or post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV.

If you make any exclusive only claim for one English Bible translation--the KJV, that is what constitutes a KJV-only view. If you consider the KJV to be the word of God translated into English in a different sense than the pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English and than the post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV are the word of God translated into English, that would indicate KJV-only opinions.

The same guiding of the Holy Spirit of truth was available to the pre-1611 English Bible translators if they were believers as was available to the KJV translators if they were believers and as is available to post-1611 English Bible translators if they are believers. The wisdom from God above does not show partiality (James 3:17) to one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
If you make any exclusive only claim for one English Bible translation--the KJV, that is what constitutes a KJV-only view.

Thank you, for your accusation, but I believe your KJV-only obsession is too extreme a religion for me to be bored with.

If you consider the KJV to be the word of God translated into English in a different sense than the pre-1611 English Bibles are the word of God translated into English and than the post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV are the word of God translated into English, that would indicate KJV-only opinions.

Thank you, again, for your religion of obsessing with KJV-onlyism.

The NKJV was translated into English using some different underlying text, wasn't it?

"To the contrary, our study leads us to conclude that the NKJV vitiates the original, reliable, accurate KJV in a most deceptive manner. While claiming to have "preserved the authority and accuracy" of the original KJV, the actual result is a hybrid text which incorporates many changes identical with or similar to the c*********s found in other modern Bible versions..."

One instance; "A striking word change involves changing "corrupt" to "peddling" in 2 Corinthians 2:17. The KJV correctly says, "For we are not as many, which corrupt the Word of God...."

"But the NKJV....(and other sister versions) change "corrupt" to "peddling."

"Is there any great difference between peddling (selling, or making a gain of) the Word of God and c********g (adulterating) it?

"Of course there is, and one does not have to be a Greek scholar to decide which word is correct. When this warning was given in the 1st Century, was there any way for people to peddle (make a gain of) God's Word?

"Of course, not-they were suffering for it.

"The warning clearly refers to corrupting God's Word, something that was common then as it is now.

"Only in our day has it ever been possible to peddle (make a gain of) the Bible. With its huge profits from the sale of many different Bible versions, the Thomas Nelson Publishers is both corrupting and peddling God's Word." (this may be from a KJV-only site, dunno, I'm just making a citation of good info/ try to contain yourself; The NKJV Examined).

While the pre-1611 English Bibles used those closer to the Original Autographs(?) Right?

The wisdom from God above does not show partiality (James 3:17) to one exclusive group of Church of England critics in 1611.

Wow. What about that? Thanks again, man.

as is available to post-1611 English Bible translators if they are believers.

"if they are believers", would be nice, as well as using sufficient texts and copacetic translation techniques and procedures.

...

So, I may have a hard time keeping pace with your all's impugning of one of the greatest books ever published because that's not my forte or calling for that matter.

It does appear to have been the forte and calling of Fenton John Anthony Hort, however.

He and Brook Foss Westcott revised and replaced the Greek text of the New Testament, as you may know, although as "a group of former Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and Secularists sharing various facts that they have learned over the years" have to say of them at;
https://www.bibleready.org/westcott-and-hort;

"Clearly, Wescott and Hort were Occult practitioners during the time that they were revising the Greek Text of the New Testament.

"Their Master Greek text of 1881 has become the "textus receptus" of the modern translations today with most people completely unaware of the historical occult connection."

However, these examples of Hort's contempt and deep repugnance for the Textus Receptus used for the KJV, maybe more to your taste and liking, as bashing efforts;

"In a private letter dated 1851, Mr. Hort betrayed his hatred toward the revered Textus Receptus when he wrote:

"I had no idea until the last few weeks of the importance of texts having read so little Greek Testament and dragged on with the villainous Textus Receptus.

"Think of that vile Textus Receptus leaning entirely on late manuscripts."

"Thus at only twenty-three years of age and having admitted to reading little of the Greek Testament, Hort concluded that the Textus Receptus was "vile" and "villainous."

"The more a person researches Mr. Hort, the more that an image emerges of him as a misfit with an axe to grind.

"Never mind that this master Greek text had withstood the test of time and the scrutiny of a vast array of biblical language scholars far superior to him for the previous two and a half centuries;

"never mind that it was in near-perfect agreement with over 99% of all known Greek manuscripts.


"This 23 yr. student knew that it was vile and spent the rest of his life trying to prove it.

"He is said to have died an early death from "mental exhaustion".

"There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked." - Isaiah 48:22"
 
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JonC

Moderator
Moderator
The King James Version was translated at a crucial time in history, shortly after the development of the printing press.

Mass publication and the support of the strongest, most widespread English-speaking Empire also aided in its acceptance and distribution.

It is an imperfect translation with a variety of shortcomings; all translations have their weaknesses.

It has been used by God to bring countless people into his kingdom.

Rob
And the fact England banned the most popular English Bible at the time from being printed in order to produce what they saw as a English monarchy friendly Bible.

It is not happenstance that English Separatists at first rejected the KJV (or that the Church of England gave us the version).
 

Deacon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This analysis, in which I have endeavoured to include all the variations introduced into the Authorised Version, will shew better than any description the watchful and far-reaching care with which the revisers fulfilled their work. No kind of emendation appears to have been neglected; and almost every change which they introduced was an improvement. They did not in every case carry out the principles by which they were generally directed; they left many things which might have been wisely modified; they paid no more attention than was commonly paid in their time to questions of reading; but when every deduction is made for inconsistency of practice and inadequacy of method, the conclusion yet remains absolutely indisputable that their work issued in a version of the Bible better—because more faithful to the original—than any which had been given in English before.
Brooke Foss Westcott, A General View of the History of the English Bible (London: Macmillan and Co., 1905), 274.

A German writer somewhat contemptuously remarks that it took nearly a century to accomplish in England the work which Luther achieved in the fraction of a single lifetime. The reproach is exactly our glory. Our version is the work of a Church and not of a man. Or rather it is a growth and not a work. Countless external influences, independent of the actual translators, contributed to mould it; and when it was fashioned the Christian instinct of the nation, touched, as we believe, by the Spirit of God, decided on its authority.
Brooke Foss Westcott, A General View of the History of the English Bible (London: Macmillan and Co., 1905), 281.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
This analysis, in which I have endeavoured to include all the variations introduced into the Authorised Version, will shew better than any description the watchful and far-reaching care with which the revisers fulfilled their work. No kind of emendation appears to have been neglected; and almost every change which they introduced was an improvement. They did not in every case carry out the principles by which they were generally directed; they left many things which might have been wisely modified; they paid no more attention than was commonly paid in their time to questions of reading; but when every deduction is made for inconsistency of practice and inadequacy of method, the conclusion yet remains absolutely indisputable that their work issued in a version of the Bible better—because more faithful to the original—than any which had been given in English before.
Brooke Foss Westcott, A General View of the History of the English Bible (London: Macmillan and Co., 1905), 274.

A German writer somewhat contemptuously remarks that it took nearly a century to accomplish in England the work which Luther achieved in the fraction of a single lifetime. The reproach is exactly our glory. Our version is the work of a Church and not of a man. Or rather it is a growth and not a work. Countless external influences, independent of the actual translators, contributed to mould it; and when it was fashioned the Christian instinct of the nation, touched, as we believe, by the Spirit of God, decided on its authority.
Brooke Foss Westcott, A General View of the History of the English Bible (London: Macmillan and Co., 1905), 281.
The KJV is an absolutely wonderful translation. It will s an accomplishment what they did, particularly with what they had. Many of the questionable practices (like translating Latin to Greek to English) was out of necessity.
 

AVL1984

<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
What is "the KJVO" supposed to be?

Could you have KJVO on your brain too much?



The comment is that it is more perfect than human beings could have accomplished without Supernatural aid.

The Integrity of the KJV does have the imprimatur of Divinity, doesn't it?
As does any other acceptable translation.....guess that blows your theory to the dogs.
 

AVL1984

<img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>
What is "the KJVO" supposed to be?

Could you have KJVO on your brain too much?



The comment is that it is more perfect than human beings could have accomplished without Supernatural aid.

The Integrity of the KJV does have the imprimatur of Divinity, doesn't it?
When KJVO is implied I point it out...could you be more dense?
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The NKJV was translated into English using some different underlying text, wasn't it?

The NKJV was translated from the same underlying original-language texts as the KJV.
Perhaps you have been misinformed concerning the NKJV by KJV-only sources as they make false accusations against it.
 

Alan Gross

Well-Known Member
Rather hard to fathom, Alan!
Besides the numerous revisions and corrections,
And besides the failure to include the translator’s preface,
Whole books have been deleted from the original version.

How perfectly preserved it that?

Not anymore than the pre-1611 English Bibles or post-1611 English Bibles such as the NKJV.

If you make any exclusive only claim for one English Bible translation--the KJV, that is what constitutes a KJV-only view.

And the fact England banned the most popular English Bible at the time from being printed in order to produce what they saw as a English monarchy friendly Bible.

It is not happenstance that English Separatists at first rejected the KJV (or that the Church of England gave us the version).

This analysis, in which I have endeavoured to include all the variations introduced into the Authorised Version, will shew better than any description the watchful and far-reaching care with which the revisers fulfilled their work.

Our version is the work of a Church and not of a man. Or rather it is a growth and not a work.

It will s an accomplishment what they did, particularly with what they had. Many of the questionable practices (like translating Latin to Greek to English) was out of necessity.

As does any other acceptable translation.....guess that blows your theory to the dogs.

When KJVO is implied I point it out...could you be more dense?

He didn't say anything about salvation.

Thank you, George. Good lookin'.

The NKJV was translated from the same underlying original-language texts as the KJV.
Perhaps you have been misinformed concerning the NKJV by KJV-only sources as they make false accusations against it.

LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!

LOOK WHAT MrW. WROTE THAT I BORROWED HERE BELOW!!

I NEVER!!

IT MAY JUST BE "BAPTIST DOCTRINE"!!!

I'VE JUST NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE!!!

HERE, HERE, MrW. SUPERB!!

(we were going around the barn about the myth of the universal church as I say and then, he didn't even mention it in this post!!)

I'LL HAVE TO TRY AND LEARN IT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT TO EXTEND IT AS A GRACIOUS GESTURE TO MY BRETHERN and SISTER!!

I'D BE GETTING SOME "PRACTICAL DIVINITY" AND MAKING APPLICATION OF WHAT BIBLE DOCTRINE I MAY KNOW!!



It is good for brothers in Christ to maximize their agreements and minimize their differences; amen.

There are things we just won't know in the fullness while we're in these mortal, fallen bodies, on this present earth.

Seek to know? Yes, where God permits it (see Deuteronomy 29:29). But don't divide over things we could possibly err on.

AND A QUOTE FROM THE BIBLE!!

Deuteronomy 29:29;

"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God:
but those things which are revealed belong unto us
and to our children forever,
that we may do all the words of this law."


AMEN!!
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some attempt to maximize the differences between the KJV and the NKJV while they minimize the differences between the pre-1611 English Bibles and the KJV.

The Church of England makers of the KJV changed some renderings in the pre-1611 English Bibles to renderings more favorable to Church of England episcopal church government views, demonstrating bias on their part
.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Thank you, George. Good lookin'.



LOOK WHAT I FOUND!!

LOOK WHAT MrW. WROTE THAT I BORROWED HERE BELOW!!

I NEVER!!

IT MAY JUST BE "BAPTIST DOCTRINE"!!!

I'VE JUST NEVER SEEN IT BEFORE!!!

HERE, HERE, MrW. SUPERB!!

(we were going around the barn about the myth of the universal church as I say and then, he didn't even mention it in this post!!)

I'LL HAVE TO TRY AND LEARN IT FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT TO EXTEND IT AS A GRACIOUS GESTURE TO MY BRETHERN and SISTER!!

I'D BE GETTING SOME "PRACTICAL DIVINITY" AND MAKING APPLICATION OF WHAT BIBLE DOCTRINE I MAY KNOW!!





AND A QUOTE FROM THE BIBLE!!

Deuteronomy 29:29;

"The secret things belong unto the LORD our God:
but those things which are revealed belong unto us
and to our children forever,
that we may do all the words of this law."


AMEN!!
Why'd ya quote me???? You and I get along fine, even when we disagree. :)
 
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