The "Let's Talk About Solutions to Police Brutality and Race" Instead of Yelling, Thread

[Reynolds]

I never understood how dangerous the job of arresting the mentally ill was. I also didn't know that the mentally ill in crisis are hard to separate from drugged up people. I figured I had a info on my illnesses and history with any law enforcement agency. Thank you. This is an emotional blow though. The worst overuse of force was in a hospital though, not law enforcement.

It all depends on the mental illness. The bad encounters I had were all schitzofreni.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I have seen the hospital part. I brnig someone in and....... Well...... Lets just say the nurses dont put up with 99% of the crap I was willing to put up with.

Depends on facility. Some are kind to damaged people, others can be cruel, breaking procedure to be mean. Mental health industry is still the wild west in this country.

 

[Reynolds]

Depends on facility. Some are kind to damaged people, others can be cruel, breaking procedure to be mean. Mental health industry is still the wild west in this country.

I only dealt with it in the E.R.
On rate occasion I transported inmates or 1013 cimmitments to the state mental hospital, but I never went in the door.

 

[Use of Time]

Talk about your fallacious arguments! Legions of police do as well.

Now, are you really making the bold claim that there have never been any incidents where a US soldier made a wrong action against civilians in a foreign land?

Yet another straw man. I’m very well aware that there are incidents but there is a remarkable difference in frequency. Just watching videos across the country recently is enough to show that rules of engagement are far different the we were permitted to do.

I feel strongly that accountability is held to a much higher standard in the military. I do understand that military leaders can have decisions with higher stakes but even at the platoon leader and squad level leaders generally didn’t deviate from established standards.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Yet another straw man. I’m very well aware that there are incidents but there is a remarkable difference in frequency. Just watching videos across the country recently is enough to show that rules of engagement are far different the we were permitted to do.

I feel strongly that accountability is held to a much higher standard in the military. I do understand that military leaders can have decisions with higher stakes but even at the platoon leader and squad level leaders generally didn’t deviate from established standards.

Nope, it's not a strawman. You clearly made the implication, so I called you on your deception. You hyped the part you wanted to focus on and completely ignored the other.

And the two are not apples to apples, as what police have to do and what soldiers have to do are decidedly different. Not only that, but your claim of frequency has no basis in fact, and you showed none. What you feel and what is the truth are not at all the same. Consider yourself busted.

 

[Use of Time]

Nope, it's not a strawman. You clearly made the implication, so I called you on your deception. You hyped the part you wanted to focus on and completely ignored the other.

And the two are not apples to apples, as what police have to do and what soldiers have to do are decidedly different. Not only that, but your claim of frequency has no basis in fact, and you showed none. What you feel and what is the truth are not at all the same. Consider yourself busted.

Head in the sand. Join Mitch.

 

[InTheLight]

It all depends on the mental illness. The bad encounters I had were all schitzofreni.

This brings up a question--why are regular police called into situations involving mentally ill people? Wouldn't it be better to have someone trained to deal with mentally ill people and had some police training on the side?

For that matter why are police called to domestic disturbances? Couldn't we have specialists that could go out on these calls?

Same thing with druggies.

We're asking our police to do a lot of stressful jobs that are only tangentily related to law enforcement.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[Steven Yeadon]

It all depends on the mental illness. The bad encounters I had were all schitzofreni.

Yeah, schizophrenia crises are potentially very dangerous. If the guy thinks he'll just, say use magic to raise you from the dead, then he'll shoot first, because he doesn't understand what death is. Such people are very, very dangerous.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

I only dealt with it in the E.R.
On rate occasion I transported inmates or 1013 cimmitments to the state mental hospital, but I never went in the door.

I'm told the worst trained first responders for mental health crises are ER personnel. Hospitals, even bad ones, tend to be very nice by comparison. The hospitals that charge the most are the nicest, go figure.

ER people were the ones who overused force on me and gave me one of my traumatic memories for PTSD. I am told by my doctors to avoid discussing my diagnoses with any ER staff, because their bias and poor training will just kick in. What they don't know can't hurt them.

I do get the police perspective now. I therefore agree with you. Don't get killed, of course. ER staff when you are in a gown are another story entirely.

In the Light has a good point on cops not being best for mentally ill and druggies, though. I wonder what you think?

 

[Reynolds]

This brings up a question--why are regular police called into situations involving mentally ill people? Wouldn't it be better to have someone trained to deal with mentally ill people and had some police training on the side?

For that matter why are police called to domestic disturbances? Couldn't we have specialists that could go out on these calls?

Same thing with druggies.

We're asking our police to do a lot of stressful jobs that are only tangentily related to law enforcement.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

Usually we encountered the above mentioned because they were committing crimes. Stupid Hipa laws prevented us from knowing who was mentally ill.

 

[Reynolds]

I'm told the worst trained first responders for mental health crises are ER personnel. Hospitals, even bad ones, tend to be very nice by comparison. The hospitals that charge the most are the nicest, go figure.

ER people were the ones who overused force on me and gave me one of my traumatic memories for PTSD. I am told by my doctors to avoid discussing my diagnoses with any ER staff, because their bias and poor training will just kick in. What they don't know can't hurt them.

I do get the police perspective now. I therefore agree with you. Don't get killed, of course. ER staff when you are in a gown are another story entirely.

In the Light has a good point on cops not being best for mentally ill and druggies, though. I wonder what you think?

I agree with him in theory. Most our encounters were due to crimes in progress.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

Usually we encountered the above mentioned because they were committing crimes. Stupid Hipa laws prevented us from knowing who was mentally ill.

I'm going to look into this. If they put a check on my HIPAA form telling me that the mentally ill can be mistaken for druggies and releasing basic information can prevent this. I would check it in a heartbeat.

 

[Steven Yeadon]

This brings up a question--why are regular police called into situations involving mentally ill people? Wouldn't it be better to have someone trained to deal with mentally ill people and had some police training on the side?

For that matter why are police called to domestic disturbances? Couldn't we have specialists that could go out on these calls?

Same thing with druggies.

We're asking our police to do a lot of stressful jobs that are only tangentily related to law enforcement.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

I agree with him in theory. Most our encounters were due to crimes in progress.

I think having specially trained first responders to assist police would be best then. Someone able to assist with druggies, the mentally ill, and domestic disturbances. A law enforcement social worker. That costs money, but maybe I found a political cause to pursue.

 

[Adonia]

What specific policies do you think would change?

I don't know, but right now they are making the policies. All these civilian review boards are now in place at the behest of the activists from years ago, yet the howl for them continues on today. The Democrat Mayors and DA's are now going full bore on policies like no bail (NYC) virtually legalizing theft if under a certain amount (California), and the lessoning of serious charges like murder down to assault (Philly, Pa). That kind of governance breeds a disrespect of the law and leaves dangerous people on the streets where the cops will have to deal with them at some point once again.

Right now the call is going out to get rid of police departments altogether. This is being voiced by the radicals, as you can be sure that for the poor widow living in the 5th Ward of Chicago and others like her that is the last thing they would want to happen. So let's change the laws that end the endless appeals from accused cops and kick those who misbehave off the force quickly for one. Yes, I am a law and order person - for both sides.

 

[Sai]

I was arrested in Orange Country after a fight. There were four of us and against a random haole and his girlfriend.

Helicopter floodlight, cop cars megaphone,get out of the truck hands on your head walk backwards slowly. Etc.

Cops are our friends. That’s my attitude. They have tuff jobs. We beat the living hell out of both victims and they were white. Me two Samoans and my Irish friend. We deserved a beat down from the 20 plus officers that pulled us over. Did not happen because I walked back slowly to the sound of their pump action shotgun. They were very professional.

 

[MartyF]

1.No knock warrants are a valuable tool. You go raid a meth lab without a no knock. I wont do it because I am not a fool.

First, why are you stupid enough to “raid” a “meth lab”?

You’re not using the most peaceful method. Think about using safer ways.

3. You need some simulator training and your mind will change on that. With your mentality, you will get shot 60 times in a 60 minute session.

Real life is not Call of Duty. You are not in a war zone - please stop acting like it. Believe it not, police are not even in the top ten of dangerous professions.

4. They are required to. Only difference is no duty to retreat. If Police had duty to retreat it kind of makes having police pointless.

No they aren’t.

Name a non-cop who got away Scott-free for doing this:

Duty to retreat really has nothing to do with it.

5. That is just a stupid comment.

Police woman walks into Dallas apartment shoots black man because she was scared.

Police unload their magazines on 5th Avenue in order to stop some perps - end up hitting half-a-dozen bystanders.

Police empty 60 rounds of ammunition at an Asian newspaper delivery woman. Police were looking for a black man.

With over a thousand killed by police every day (not even counting those shot and not killed), I have numerous examples of police who are trigger-happy.

At that rate 1 out of 25 police end up killing someone.

6.That is already being done and has been done since the Rodney King incident.

No, it obviously has not. We have 4 very recent police examples of using unnecessary force. Numerous other examples exist.

7.That is always the goal and that is how we are trained. Thats why 99.99999% of arrests are not national news.

Obviously it is not how all police officers are trained. Some obviously still think they need no-knock warrants.

Many don’t reach national news because of white or Asian skin color, video not being released, or local news covering it up.

 

[Reynolds]

I think having specially trained first responders to assist police would be best then. Someone able to assist with druggies, the mentally ill, and domestic disturbances. A law enforcement social worker. That costs money, but maybe I found a political cause to pursue.

Those people exist, bit they are not on the front line.

 

[Reynolds]

First, why are you stupid enough to “raid” a “meth lab”?

You’re not using the most peaceful method. Think about using safer ways.



Real life is not Call of Duty. You are not in a war zone - please stop acting like it. Believe it not, police are not even in the top ten of dangerous professions.



No they aren’t.

Name a non-cop who got away Scott-free for doing this:

Duty to retreat really has nothing to do with it.



Police woman walks into Dallas apartment shoots black man because she was scared.

Police unload their magazines on 5th Avenue in order to stop some perps - end up hitting half-a-dozen bystanders.

Police empty 60 rounds of ammunition at an Asian newspaper delivery woman. Police were looking for a black man.

With over a thousand killed by police every day (not even counting those shot and not killed), I have numerous examples of police who are trigger-happy.

At that rate 1 out of 25 police end up killing someone.



No, it obviously has not. We have 4 very recent police examples of using unnecessary force. Numerous other examples exist.



Obviously it is not how all police officers are trained. Some obviously still think they need no-knock warrants.

Many don’t reach national news because of white or Asian skin color, video not being released, or local news covering it up.

You cite outliers as the norm. Show me the law that says police are exempt from deadly force use law.
How many search warrants you executed? I did hundreds total. App 25% were no knock. In a specific set of circumstances, no knock is the BEST method.
Society needs to decide what the laws need to be. Society, not police, make the laws. Police simply enforce them. Nothing happens in a vacuum. You take away police ability to do their job, crime will increase unless something fills that void you created.

 

[rlvaughn]

With over a thousand killed by police every day...

Where does this number come from? The Washington Post Police Shooting Database puts it at about an average of 1000 per year since they started keeping up with it in 2015. Do you have another source? Thanks.

 

[Adonia]

This brings up a question--why are regular police called into situations involving mentally ill people? Wouldn't it be better to have someone trained to deal with mentally ill people and had some police training on the side?

For that matter why are police called to domestic disturbances? Couldn't we have specialists that could go out on these calls?

Same thing with druggies.

We're asking our police to do a lot of stressful jobs that are only tangentily related to law enforcement.hat they plan

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

It looks like we just find out how all you said will actually work in the real world. Today the story from the Minneapolis City Council is that the plan will be to get rid of the police department. I predict a total disaster. Their crime problem is already one of the highest in the nation, it will skyrocket out of this world with such an action. Home prices will drop and who in their right mind will open up any kind of business there.

But tell me Mr. Genius, at the first domestic disturbance when one of the parties involved grabs a gun and starts shooting or getting violent in a different way, what is your little "specialist" going to do? Without the means to respond or the tactical training that is needed, your "gentler" city representative will end up severely hurt or just plain dead!

But hey, since you think something like that is a good idea and if the city actually follows through on it, why don't you move there and you can report back to us here on BB how everything is working out for you. It's time for you to get off the sidelines and into the mix, it's time for you to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.