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The "Let's Talk About Solutions to Police Brutality and Race" Instead of Yelling, Thread

Adonia

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So the murder victims made the mistake and not the murderers.

Yes, they made the initial mistake that put them in a bad situation. Many people are unaware that the black leaders of the voter registration drive down there in Mississippi at that time were armed. Don't yell at me, I am just relating what I saw in that documentary. They used to travel only with several cars together and armed at all times - they knew the score. I am not absolving the real killers in any way, shape, manner or form, it should not have happened as those three men were told of the precautions that they must take in order to stay safe.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes, they made the initial mistake that put them in a bad situation. Many people are unaware that the black leaders of the voter registration drive down there in Mississippi at that time were armed. Don't yell at me, I am just relating what I saw in that documentary. They used to travel only with several cars together and armed at all times - they knew the score. I am not absolving the real killers in any way, shape, manner or form, it should not have happened as those three men were told of the precautions that they must take in order to stay safe.

Just stop. Victim blaming 101.
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
Police training is good. The problem is an educated and well trained idiot is still an idiot. The mental health is a tough one.
I have a lot of training in mental health area of policing. HIPA law crap is your biggest enemy. I font know if someone is mental or doped up and due to stupid privacy cant find out until its too late. While I would love to non violently arrest the mentally ill, I also like going home safe. I have been stabbed at, had a shotgun put to mu chest by, hit in the head with a brick by, and hit in the shoulder with a ball bat by mentally ill people. I feel for you, but I aint going to let you kill me.

As someone who has been involved in many psychotic and drug affected "take downs" in emergency, I sympathize. I worked in a hospital where this was a regular occurence because it was right beside the clubbing district. We had a team of 3-4 security and 2-3 health care staff to take down one aggressive patient and administer a sedative. Out in the field you only have 2 police and no sedatives at your disposal.

Mental health nurses are well trained in de-escalation techiques and it makes a lot of sense in having some readily available in police forces for some of these situations. I've never worked in an area where this has been available but my state does have a program in some areas.

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/innovation/2019awards/Pages/pacer.aspx
https://www2.health.vic.gov.au/abou...inical-Early-Response-PACER-Evaluation-Report

I wonder if that will help with the HIPAA problems.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Well, my preferred solution is now thought of as "racist" - the broken window theory. Hey, it worked in NYC and ABQ, among other cities. Not "no tolerance", ya need some more flexibility.

ITL's idea of white policing white, black on black is multiculturalism to the nth degree. UoT wants to cut funding to the police, good luck with that with the police unions out there.

Problems - black crime and police brutality - are waaaaaaaaay over my paygrade, my ideas will never be implemented since they are thought of as unoriginal and dated, so maybe the police in Minneapolis should be disbanded, it would make the city a live lab for the rest of the country. If they didn't like vigilante justice before, they sure will now.
The BLM movement and others are not really advocating no police. Their aim is to undo the American Republic. Sharia law would be an acceptable outcome for many behind it. The no-go zones of certain European areas provide examples of expected results. This is of course entirely unconstitutional, but so what? "The white man's religion" and "the white man's government" are anathema to them.

Hmm. Their way and attitude sound ignorantly, unconscionably racist. Oh, but that's OK, because it is aimed in the right direction.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
When I first started reading the article I thought, "These guys are going to use the old 'I was just following orders' defense", which I consider bogus. However, once I read that they were greenhorn rookies and that one of them suggested that Chauvin get off of Floyd, twice, but was rebuffed, I felt sympathy for them. As new cops they are trying to learn how to behave on the street and looked to the veteran for guidance. They weren't so much as following orders as they were asking advice. I was encouraged by the fact that Lane went in the ambulance and assisted in performing CPR. I sure hope these two are acquitted.
Agreed. 'Just following orders,' does not address the issues. Demanding days old rookies accost, subdue, and arrest a veteran cop in charge of a bona fide arrest is not likely to be perceived as reasonable. At least one was focusing on keeping the crowd at bay, not on the specifics of the arrest.
 

Gold Dragon

Well-Known Member
I'm a Minneapolis City Council Member. We Must Disband the Police—Here's What Could Come Next

In my first two years on the Council, several factors have reinforced the context for reform. Minneapolis Police officers shot and killed four more people—Thurman Blevins, Travis Jordan, Mario Benjamin, and Chiasher Fong Vue—and were caught in a bodycam audit asking EMTs to sedate suspects and others with ketamine. The Police Federation refused to comply with a department ban on “warrior training” and took an intentionally divisive on-stage role at a Trump rally.
...
Minneapolis Police had an opportunity to distance themselves from Derek Chauvin, to express sympathy, to be a calming presence. Instead, they deployed tear gas and rubber bullets, effectively escalating the situation from protest to pitched conflict. By the next day, it was clear that people on Lake Street were rallying for much more than the prosecution of four officers. They were demonstrating their anger at decades of harassment and racialized violence and calling for it to end.
...
My assessment of what is now necessary is shaped by the failure of the reforms we’ve attempted, in the face of opposition from the department and the Police Federation. We have a talented, thoughtful police chief who has attempted some important steps. He has fired officers for significant abuses only to have his decisions overturned and those officers reinstated by arbitrators. Mayor Frey has met fierce resistance from the Federation to implement even minor policy changes.
...
There is another reason reform can be daunting, even scary. My reform advocacy, incremental though it has been, has prompted intense political attacks from police and their allies, who up to now have been confident that their support for police expansion was a mainstream point of view. And they do not limit their attacks to politics. Politicians who oppose the department’s wishes find slowdowns in their wards. After we cut money from the proposed police budget, I heard from constituents whose 9-1-1 calls took forever to get a response, and I heard about officers telling business owners to call their councilman about why it took so long. Since I’ve started talking publicly about this, elected officials from several cities and towns around the country have contacted me to tell me I am not alone in this experience.
...
Every member of the Minneapolis City Council has now expressed the need for dramatic structural change. I am one of many on the Council, including the Council President and the Chair of Public Safety, who are publicly supporting the call to disband our police department and start fresh with a community-oriented, non-violent public safety and outreach capacity. What I hear from most of my constituents is that they want to make sure we provide for public safety, and they have learned their whole lives to equate “safety” with “police,” but are now concluding that need not be the case.

We had already pushed for pilot programs to dispatch county mental health professionals to mental health calls, and fire department EMTs to opioid overdose calls, without police officers. We have similarly experimented with unarmed, community-oriented street teams on weekend nights downtown to focus on de-escalation. We could similarly turn traffic enforcement over to cameras and, potentially, our parking enforcement staff, rather than our police department.
...
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Agreed. 'Just following orders,' does not address the issues. Demanding days old rookies accost, subdue, and arrest a veteran cop in charge of a bona fide arrest is not likely to be perceived as reasonable. At least one was focusing on keeping the crowd at bay, not on the specifics of the arrest.
And before any poorly reasoned responses get going, "bona fide arrest" here means that of a real suspect for a real crime. That the suspect resisted arrest complicates the matter considerably, essentially transforming it from a non-violent issue to a violent one.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
What I actually said is that the police should live in the neighborhoods they patrol. They should have a working knowledge of the neighborhood. I did say we don't need white cops coming from the suburbs to patrol the inner city.
Nah, but many inner city neighborhoods are all black, so that's about what you'd get there.

I don't know how you could force them to live there, though - guess you could treat them like public school students, if you move, so does your beat or whatever they call it now.
Perhaps the solution is to build all housing projects and low-income housing interspersed within "high end" neighborhoods, so that there is no area without them.

I might be able to think of a few to start with, as it might wake some people up, or expose their hypocrisy.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The BLM movement and others are not really advocating no police. Their aim is to undo the American Republic. Sharia law would be an acceptable outcome for many behind it. The no-go zones of certain European areas provide examples of expected results. This is of course entirely unconstitutional, but so what? "The white man's religion" and "the white man's government" are anathema to them.

Hmm. Their way and attitude sound ignorantly, unconscionably racist. Oh, but that's OK, because it is aimed in the right direction.

Aaaand more strawmen based off of nothing factual. Sharia law? What are you talking about?
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Aaaand I never said that either. Lol. Man you are a disaster in this thread. Moving from strawman arguments to straight up cramming words in my mouth. Sheesh take a break.
Well, yes, technically, you compared soldiers driving around in foreign countries being pelted and harrassed to police in their own city standing there and being assaulted with projectiles by outsiders bent on mayhem, but I was giving you a little leeway there. So, yes, your nonsense is much worse than I indicated. Thanks for pointing it out.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Well, yes, technically, you compared soldiers driving around in foreign countries being pelted and harrassed to police in their own city standing there and being assaulted with projectiles by outsiders bent on mayhem, but I was giving you a little leeway there. So, yes, your nonsense is much worse than I indicated. Thanks for pointing it out.

Did I say just take it? No, no I didn’t. You are really reaching here. This is called quibbling. This is unChristian behavior and you should stop. You are clinging to pride and if you hold this attempt at controlling the narrative then you have moved from quibbling to outright lying. Get it right.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
Did I say just take it? No, no I didn’t. You are really reaching here. This is called quibbling. This is unChristian behavior and you should stop. You are clinging to pride and if you hold this attempt at controlling the narrative then you have moved from quibbling to outright lying. Get it right.
I got it right, but OK, let's look again. Actually, you never even presented any comparable concrete examples, just made general, unsubstantiated claims, then argued from the fallacy of incredulity—"I'm just baffled;" "I'm honestly baffled."

So what? It's easy to believe you're baffled. It's easy to believe you don't understand anything, much less have solutions to actual problems. If I had to guess why, the reason would have a lot to do with buying into the progressive leftist MSM narrative.
 

Use of Time

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I got it right, but OK, let's look again. Actually, you never even presented any comparable concrete examples, just made general, unsubstantiated claims, then argued from the fallacy of incredulity—"I'm just baffled;" "I'm honestly baffled."

So what? It's easy to believe you're baffled. It's easy to believe you don't understand anything, much less have solutions to actual problems. If I had to guess why, the reason would have a lot to do with buying into the progressive leftist MSM narrative.

There you go again. Deflecting and assuming you know me. You got called on a blatant lie. How you’ve handled it is very telling. If you want to know something about me all you have to do is ask. You’ll get an answer and avoid looking foolish.
 

RighteousnessTemperance&

Well-Known Member
There you go again. Deflecting and assuming you know me. You got called on a blatant lie. How you’ve handled it is very telling. If you want to know something about me all you have to do is ask. You’ll get an answer and avoid looking foolish.
Assuming I know you? Absolute nonsense, or should I say, "A blatant lie"? Guessing why you're so off base in your statements? Yes, and I said so. You have a certain perspective that conflicts with my own. Unsurprising when people are involved. And we've clashed before. So what?

You are the one who had to backtrack when confronted with claiming the military doesn't escalate but the police do. You want to assign pride to that sort of argumentation, but that is a reflection on you. Perhaps you are now itching to quibble about what "escalating" means?

I'm not deflecting. Your claims are still unsubstantiated. You want to blame police for what others are guilty. You want to hold them to imagined standards that don't apply. You may really believe you are correct. That doesn't make you so. And you have certainly made no case.
 
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Adonia

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aaaand more strawmen based off of nothing factual. Sharia law? What are you talking about?

The left in this country for some reason just loves the Muslim religion. They never say anything bad about it or the people who are members of it. They will come down hard on the Christian for doing something but will excuse the Muslim for the very same thing. I don't think we will ever have sharia law here in America or a socialist state, there would be a civil war here first and since more ex-military folks love our country as it is, the patriot side would. Most of those BLM/Antifa types would flee the minute some 5.56 rounds start snapping their way.
 
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