Obviously a mistake on my part. 365,000 per year is an obvious mistake.
Thank you for pointing it out.
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The "Let's Talk About Solutions to Police Brutality and Race" Instead of Yelling, Thread
- Thread starter InTheLight
- Start date
Obviously a mistake on my part. 365,000 per year is an obvious mistake.
Thank you for pointing it out.
Nice attitude you have here. I'm asking questions about the current policies, not suggesting they be adopted. I also said these people that respond to mentally ill should have police training. Domestic disturbance calls could have a specialist and a police officer. The police officer could secure the area for the specialist. I'm looking for answers since the current methods are not the best.
In other words, you WON'T be moving to Minneapolis when they get rid of their police department. I got it.
Look, these cites barely have enough money for the regular police forces let alone all these "specialists" you want them to employ. Okay, I will agree that it is not such a bad idea, but not practical either economically or in a practical sense.
The police are called because nobody can determine who is mentally ill on their own and the mentally ill are disrupting things in their communities.
So what happens is the police are called to the scene once they observed that there seems to be a problem with their mental capacity they are detained and taken to a mental health facility usually run by the county where they are held over for 24 to 72 hours and where they are evaluated.
Once they have been evaluated and have been determined she be mentally ill they are then seen by a doctor of psychiatry who makes a final determination on them and gives them the proper mental health that they deserve.
No, I won't be moving to Minneapolis. I'm not buying into your so-called solution, as if my moving there would do a thing to solve the problem.
I agree. Police tend to follow orders, follow the law, and do as they are told. This is why when 4 police all supported the improper force used on Floyd while being videotaped, I believe that the police officers thought they were doing what they were told and trained to do. This is why I recommended all police officers be retrained - even and especially veterans. Younger officers will tend to follow the lead of veteran officers.
Yes. You are correct. Most police officers do not kill people.
However, most teachers don't rape students. That doesn't stop the state governments from passing laws to pay to fingerprint all teachers, set up hotlines, make the non-report of a possible sexual offense a felony by administrators, etc.
So yes, outliers to the norm need to be dealt with can be dealt with proactively instead of retroactively.
Sure - after you show me the law that states that murdering 3 people driving along the road is alright.
You should know that is not how it works. Part of the problem is that the prosecutors, judges, and police are all part of the same club. It's like trying to find justice from the perpetrators' mother.
Prosecutors can throw cases anytime they feel like it. Judges put their finger on the scales of justice.
I think families should be allowed to select or hire their own prosecutor.
Were 90% of those involving the attempt to find a murder weapon? Or were 90% of those trying to find the proverbial dime bag?
I don't doubt that you believe that.
I'll add that the problem is there are huge problems in that system, and dangerous people can get released too soon. Mental health in this country is terribly underfunded. As a result, counties and states only hold people in "crisis" and can't afford follow ups and monitoring after releasing the person. To make sure the decision to release came at the right time. There is also a huge problem with insurance for mentally ill people. Transportation to medical appointments and outpatient care can be difficult to get short of Medicaid. The mental health system only has social work, therapy, and medications for the mentally ill outpatient. Many of whom are still fairly incapacitated mentally. This works for light cases of mental illness, but fails miserably with those with difficult cases.
This is exactly what happened in the George Floyd case. Two of the three other officers that were charged with aiding and abetting 2nd degree murder were rookies. One guy, Officer Lane, the guy that asked twice if Floyd should be rolled onto his side, was on his fourth day on the job, the other rookie, Officer Kueng was on his first day on the job. They were arraigned yesterday and both said they were taking direction from the veteran officers.
“What is my client supposed to do but follow what the [senior] officer says?” Lane’s attorney, Earl Gray, argued in court. “The strength of this case, your honor, in my opinion is extremely weak.”
“What was [Lane] supposed to do … go up to Mr. Chauvin and grab him and throw him off?” said Gray, arguing that there was no evidence to charge his client.
Kueng’s attorney, Thomas Plunkett, also attempted to distance his client from Chauvin’s actions.
“At all times Mr. Kueng and Mr. Lane turned their attention to that 19-year veteran,” Plunkett said. “[Kueng] was trying — they were trying to communicate that this situation needs to change direction.”
Two ex-Minneapolis police officers charged in George Floyd's death cast blame on more senior colleague
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I really feel bad for these two rookies. To have to go through the stress of a murder trial because they were rookies and were deferring to senior officers is such a shame.
Agreed. Unless new evidence surfaces, they should be let go. I didn't understand the situation for those two until this morning.
Boy, now that is going back, way, way back. You do realize that 41 years later one person named Edgar Kline was participated in those killings was charged and convicted and given a 60 year sentence. Earlier in 1967 the Federal government had charged 18 individuals associated with the case on civil rights violations with 7 people being convicted.
So, it was not alright for those people to be killed and something was indeed as shown by the prosecutions I just cited.
Just as an aside, those 3 violated one of the cardinal rules established by the civil rights organizers in the south during that time and that was not to travel alone and unarmed in rural areas. I once saw a documentary about those killings and that is what one of the local black leaders said on camera.
They made a terrible mistake and paid for it with their lives.
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If you read what I wrote, you would know that I agree with the circumstances.
As for the other part - Should “I was following orders.” be an appropriate defense?
So the murder victims made the mistake and not the murderers.
When I first started reading the article I thought, "These guys are going to use the old 'I was just following orders' defense", which I consider bogus. However, once I read that they were greenhorn rookies and that one of them suggested that Chauvin get off of Floyd, twice, but was rebuffed, I felt sympathy for them. As new cops they are trying to learn how to behave on the street and looked to the veteran for guidance. They weren't so much as following orders as they were asking advice. I was encouraged by the fact that Lane went in the ambulance and assisted in performing CPR. I sure hope these two are acquitted.
Well, my preferred solution is now thought of as "racist" - the broken window theory. Hey, it worked in NYC and ABQ, among other cities. Not "no tolerance", ya need some more flexibility.
ITL's idea of white policing white, black on black is multiculturalism to the nth degree. UoT wants to cut funding to the police, good luck with that with the police unions out there.
Problems - black crime and police brutality - are waaaaaaaaay over my paygrade, my ideas will never be implemented since they are thought of as unoriginal and dated, so maybe the police in Minneapolis should be disbanded, it would make the city a live lab for the rest of the country. If they didn't like vigilante justice before, they sure will now.
ITL's idea of white policing white, black on black is multiculturalism to the nth degree. UoT wants to cut funding to the police, good luck with that with the police unions out there.
Problems - black crime and police brutality - are waaaaaaaaay over my paygrade, my ideas will never be implemented since they are thought of as unoriginal and dated, so maybe the police in Minneapolis should be disbanded, it would make the city a live lab for the rest of the country. If they didn't like vigilante justice before, they sure will now.
I know what I believe. No knock is an excellent tool. Prosecutors are elected.I agree. Police tend to follow orders, follow the law, and do as they are told. This is why when 4 police all supported the improper force used on Floyd while being videotaped, I believe that the police officers thought they were doing what they were told and trained to do. This is why I recommended all police officers be retrained - even and especially veterans. Younger officers will tend to follow the lead of veteran officers.
Yes. You are correct. Most police officers do not kill people.
However, most teachers don't rape students. That doesn't stop the state governments from passing laws to pay to fingerprint all teachers, set up hotlines, make the non-report of a possible sexual offense a felony by administrators, etc.
So yes, outliers to the norm need to be dealt with can be dealt with proactively instead of retroactively.
Sure - after you show me the law that states that murdering 3 people driving along the road is alright.
You should know that is not how it works. Part of the problem is that the prosecutors, judges, and police are all part of the same club. It's like trying to find justice from the perpetrators' mother.
Prosecutors can throw cases anytime they feel like it. Judges put their finger on the scales of justice.
I think families should be allowed to select or hire their own prosecutor.
Were 90% of those involving the attempt to find a murder weapon? Or were 90% of those trying to find the proverbial dime bag?
I don't doubt that you believe that.
Police pass a much more extensive background than teachers.
The test is just deflective rambling.
I think a single type of law enforcement specialists that can be called in as backup who train in all the hardest scenarios could work. Of course, you need more money, but I think police need higher salaries and better hours anyway.
Nah, but many inner city neighborhoods are all black, so that's about what you'd get there.
I don't know how you could force them to live there, though - guess you could treat them like public school students, if you move, so does your beat or whatever they call it now.
I don't know how you could force them to live there, though - guess you could treat them like public school students, if you move, so does your beat or whatever they call it now.
What is the "specialist" supposed to do?