Featured The Many Insurmountable Difficulties of Futurism: 144,000 Jewish Male Virgins

"Evangelist" is descriptive of God-anointed witnesses (missionaries, if you will), numbering 144,000. It is not descriptive of the "great multitude."

There were confessions of Faith before the Rapture, and there will be the same by some within the Tribulation. A "great multitude" is all those who have been saved by Grace through Faith since their confession of Jesus as Savior (Romans 10:8-13) before and within the Tribulation. The latter are martyred for their Faith.

Those who were not caught up in the Rapture, and those who failed to heed the final call in the Tribulation, have no hope. The antichrist and his demonic hordes will delight in continuing to deceive most trapped in the Trib, even though they know that they will accompany those they deceive, in the Great White Throne Judgment.

The 1/3rd remnant will be those Jews who confess Jesus as the Promised Messiah (as you well know, not all Jews have accepted their Messiah before the Trib), during the Great Trib. They are sheltered from annihilation during that time, in Petra.

They will not enter the born-again Believer's Heaven. They will be ushered into the Kingdom of God on earth, with Jesus on the Throne of David for 1,000 years, ruling with the 12 Tribes. Also present will be all those who accepted Jesus as Messiah 2,000 years ago.

Thereafter, there will be a New Heaven and a new earth. ALL former things will have passed away.

:1_grouphug: :applause:

 

If "the church" is raptured before The Tribulation who will be martyred for their faith in the Tribulation? What faith? The J.W. faith? The Mormon faith? It won't be Christian. They all will have been raptured. The rest of the world will follow the antichrist unless deceived by another cult, as mentioned. 2Thes.2 specifically says that they will all be damned because they believe a lie.

Secondly give chapter and verse where you get this "one third" from.

There is no final call in the Tribulation. Where do you get that from. The Church is raptured. Now it is a time of the pouring out of God's Wrath. The time of mercy and grace has gone. The time of judgment has come.

Read Rev.20:10. It preceded vs.11-15. The devil or Satan will not even make it to the Great White Throne Judgment. He will be judged before that event even happens.

What 1/3 remnant? Where do you get this in scripture?
"And so all Israel shall be saved." "All Israel"--that is the entire nation that will be living at that time, not just one third of them..
[FONT=&quot]Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:[/FONT]

 

I'm really not into debating those of similar points of view. I'll respond here, but my purpose is one of encouragement. :jesus:

Of course it won't be Christian. You can't be a Christian before you become one. And they certainly won't be JW's or Mormons (unless those living now confess Romans 10:8-13 without reservation), nor will any of the 144,000 be of any other persuasion than Grace through Faith. Those martyred for their Faith will be those Jewish individuals who accept the witness of the 144,000. (The Remnant, Genesis 45:7; 2 Kings 19:31; Isaiah 10:20-21; and many, many more. Finally, Romans 11:5.)

Yes. ALL = all those living saved by Grace thru Faith.

Of course they will "follow" the antichrist. They have no choice one split-second after the Rapture. Even those deceived by cults, obviously.

All those who fail to confess salvation, obviously, will not enter Heaven.

These are resurrected: Those in Christ at the time of the Rapture, those in the Hebrew Bible who firmly identified with and "stuck to" Abraham along with those who identified with Jesus as the Messiah at and after His Coming, the "Abrahamic" group and "Messianic" group scheduled for the Kingdom of God on earth. Then there are those who will be martyred for their confession of Romans 10:8-13 during the Trib, the latter individuals, one-by-one, instantly transported to the "Heavenly Heaven" where all Christians abide. We do not live in a "kingdom" now (we, the Body of Christ), and we will not be transported to the Messianic Kingdom on earth. That is the home of Jesus, the 12 Apostles, and the 12 Tribes.

Revelation Chapter 9 reveals those saved out of the Tribulation (martyred) in verse 4.

No one saved by God's Amazing Grace will suffer, as in Revelation 15 and 16.

The Remnant, Genesis 45:7; 2 Kings 19:31; Isaiah 10:20-21; and many, many more. Finally, Romans 11:5.

Correct my original to read "just as in the Great White Throne Judgment."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Romans 11:25-26

For, brethren, I want you to understand this truth which God formerly concealed but has now revealed, so that you won’t imagine you know more than you actually do. It is that stoniness, to a degree, has come upon Isra’el, until the Gentile world enters in its fullness; 26 and that it is in this way that all Isra’el will be saved. As the Tanakh says,

“Out of Tziyon will come the Redeemer;
he will turn away ungodliness from Ya‘akov"

All bonafide ISRAEL will be saved; that's "the Remnant." the "one-third."

 

The Trib

The tribulation is a future seven-year period of time when God will finish His discipline of Israel and finalize His judgment of the unbelieving world. The Body of Christ, the church, made up of all who have confessed Jesus as Savior, will not be here. Authentic Believers in Jesus as Savior (John 14:6, John 3:16-17, John 5:24, John 3:3, Romans 10:8-13, Ephesians 2:8-9) will be raptured, "caught up" to meet Jesus in the air (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Believers are saved from the wrath to come (1 Thessalonians 5:9). Throughout Scripture, the tribulation is referred to by other names such as the Day of the Lord (Isaiah 2:12; 13:6-9; Joel 1:15; 2:1-31; 3:14; 1 Thessalonians 5:2); trouble or tribulation (Deuteronomy 4:30; Zephaniah 1:1); the Great Tribulation (which refers to the more intense second half of the seven-year period, Matthew 24:21); time or day of trouble (Daniel 12:1; Zephaniah 1:15); time of Jacob's trouble (Jeremiah 30:7). The apparent peace after the Rapture evolves over 3.5 years into sheer horror. The witnessing of the 144,000 anointed, ordained missionaries ends, yet in Revelation 13-14, "These white robes--who are they, and where did they come from? These are they who have come out of the Great Tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". (Responded to the call in Romans 10:8-13). John 6:9-11; 7:9 ~ ~ "The souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained were told to "wait a little longer" until their full number was complete. These "souls" were martyred during the Trib. They are "measured with the 24 Elders and the innumerable multitude who reside in Heaven.

An understanding of Daniel 9:24-27 is necessary in order to understand the purpose and time of the tribulation. This passage speaks of 70 weeks that have been declared against “your people.” Daniel's people are the Jews, the nation of Israel, and Daniel 9:24 speaks of a period of time that God has given “to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.” God declares that “seventy sevens” will fulfill all these things. This is 70 sevens of years, or 490 years. (Some translations refer to 70 weeks of years.) This is confirmed by another part of this passage in Daniel. In verses 25 and 26, Daniel is told that the Messiah will be cut off after “seven sevens and sixty-two sevens” (69 total), beginning with the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. In other words, 69 sevens of years (483 years) after the decree to rebuild Jerusalem, the Messiah will be cut off. Biblical historians confirm that 483 years passed from the time of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the time when Jesus was crucified. Most Christian scholars, regardless of their view of eschatology (future things/events), and most Christians who are under the tutelage of the Holy Spirit, have the above understanding of Daniel's 70 sevens.

With 483 years having passed from the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the cutting off of the Messiah, this leaves one seven-year period to be fulfilled in terms of Daniel 9:24; this final seven-year period is known as the tribulation period—it is a time when God finishes judging Israel for its sin (its failure to remain true to the Abrahamic Covenant, to the Promised Jewish Messiah, Jesus), and involves His final rejection.

Daniel 9:27 gives a few highlights of the seven-year tribulation period: “He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.” The person of whom this verse speaks is the person Jesus calls the “abomination that causes desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and is called “the beast” in Revelation 13. Daniel 9:27 says that the beast will make a covenant for seven years, but in the middle of this week (3 1/2 years into the tribulation), he will break the covenant, putting a stop to sacrifice, initiating the "Great Tribulation." Revelation 13 explains that the beast will place an image of himself in the temple and require the world to worship him. Revelation 13:5 says that this will go on for 42 months, which is 3 1/2 years. Since Daniel 9:27 says that this will happen in the middle of the week, and Revelation 13:5 says that the beast will do this for a period of 42 months, it is easy to see that the total length of time is 84 months or seven years. Also see Daniel 7:25, where the “time, times, and half a time” (time=1 year; times=2 years; half a time=1/2 year; total of 3 1/2 years) also refers to “Great Tribulation,” the last half of the seven-year tribulation period when the beast will be in power.

For further references about the tribulation, see Revelation 11:2-3, which speaks of 1260 days and 42 months, and Daniel 12:11-12, which speaks of 1290 days and 1335 days. These days have a reference to the midpoint of the tribulation. The additional days in Daniel 12 include the time at the end for the judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-46) and time for the setting up of Christ's Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4-6, the 1,000 year reign of Jesus, the Christ, and Savior of us all), on the Throne of David in the City of Jerusalem, ruling over the 12 Tribes of Israel.

In summary, the Tribulation is the 7-year time period in the end times in which humanity's decadence and depravity will reach its fullness, with God judging accordingly. For insights into the latter, see the "Great White Throne Judgment" in scripture. raying:

 

None of those verses mention "one-third."
You keep referring to one-third. Where is that in Scripture?
What does this statement of yours mean:

 

If you know I quoted Clarke, and know I read Clarke why did you waste the space here in extensively quoting what I have already read? :tonofbricks:

I quoted him on the meaning of one phrase.
You should know I don't agree with his eschatology so there was no need to waste all this space.

 

There is OT prophecy that in the last days, Israel will be attacked, and 2/3 of the nation shall fall...

 

I think you are confused. Where does it say that?

 

Apparently someone does not know what insurmountable or difficulty means.

 

Run that by me again, please?

I'm thinking about Zecharian 13,

 

Thank you. I will have to consider that.

 

DHK,

Why are you compelled to make such remarks about those who do not accept Darby's-pre-trib-dispensationalism? Don't you know what Jesus Christ said about those who call a brother a "fool"?

Matthew 5:22. But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Now should we interpret the above Scripture literally or not?

 

Why are you compelled to dig up a quote obviously made last year, which I can't even find, and therefore can't respond to for I don't know the context in which it was said. Shame on you for bringing up such old posts!!

 

If nothing else, this thread make me grateful that the Lord led me out of the confusion of dispensationalism.

The 144,000 is the church. Not Jewish evangelists, or whatever you want to call them, during the so-called great tribulation.

 

Now that is confusion brother.
It distinctly says that they are Israelites. It numbers the tribes: 12 of them. It gives the number 12,000 from each tribe. How could it be any other way? Of which tribe would you be?

 

I don't know why I'm bothering. It's not like you'll actually give any consideration to this...

In Rev 5:5, John was told of "the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David", correct?

Did he see a lion or a root?

I know this seems like an odd place to begin, but trust me on this.

 

No, that is a fulfillment of prophecy, those terms used in direct relation to the tribe of Judah, David, and Christ. There are also figures of speech in the Bible that are obvious to us such as similes and metaphors.
If Christ IS the lion of the tribe of Judah, just as He IS the door of the sheep, both figures are called metaphors and are recognized as such.

 

OK. Glad to see you say that.

Now, that is what he heard right, he was told "the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David" but he didn't actually see that.

What does it he see in verse 6? "I saw... a Lamb standing, as if slain." Did he actually see a lamb that, in spite of a deadly wound, was standing in the midst of the throne?