The Mental Illness/Sin Threads

[revmwc]

Paul's thorn wasn't an addiction.

So you know exactly what it was?

No one knows what that thorn in the flesh was. From (Ephesians) 5:18 one might say it was acohol abuse, Be ye not drunk with wine wherein is excess but be ye filled with the Spirit. Paul said don't let acohol control you, could that be the voice of experience from Paul? Noone knows th thorn in the flesh he had it very well could have been acohol addiction, he had a physician traveling with him, Dr. Luke could he have possibly needed medication for an ongoing mental anguish problem? All we have a clue to is God refused to remove the thorn in the flesh, addiction is a thorn in the flesh for many people.

Pauls point in Galatians is to live under the control of the Holy Spirit, with a mental illness one cannot be controlled by the Holy Spirit if they can't think straight, the medication helps them to think straight and to allow the Spirit to control.

 

[agedman]

Yes there is a cure if you believe the bible read 1Cor 6, and such were some of you.

1 Cor. 6 does state that they were no longer actively involved.

BUT, it does not say that there was no desire.

 

[Steadfast Fred]

Some do have it happen that way just as my daughter was miraculously healed last year. Others don't and continue to struggle with that addiction for the rest of their lives even if they never have another drink. They still have the desire for it. Just as my daughter was healed and my friend's son was not just two months later, some will find immediate delivery from addiction and others will have that flesh continue to desire it for the rest of their lives and it's something that they just have to live with. God never promises to take all temptations out of our way - but He will provide a way out.

There is no such thing as an alcoholic Chirstian. The two are contradictory to each other.

The Word of God tells us that drunkards (alchohoics) shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians, however, will.

 

[matt wade]

Pauls point in Galatians is to live under the control of the Holy Spirit, with a mental illness one cannot be controlled by the Holy Spirit if they can't think straight, the medication helps them to think straight and to allow the Spirit to control.

Really? Now you've gone so far as to limit God's and the Holy Spirit's ability to lead and control a believer's life?

"cannot be control by the Holy Spirit"?

I can't believe I read those words.

 

[annsni]

The infant has some physical dependencies on the drug because of his mother's sin. Those physical dependencies can be dealt with. That doesn't make the infant an addict. The sin of wanting and using a drug makes one an addict.

The child is absolutely an addict - and medically so!!

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/978492-overview

 

[revmwc]

If they took just one drink they would be sinning again. What's your point?

The point is they aren't over the addiction it is not in control while they are not drinking but one drink and right back to the addiction. They like you are still an acholoic, they have to fight the cravings the lust for it just as all christians must fight their besetting sin.

Every time someone gets over one besetting sin another comes their way. The old nature is always there with a lust for something.

 

[agedman]

There is no question that long term sin makes it more difficult to let go of the sin. However at the same point for the believer we know this;
1Cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].


Also we know this;
1Cor 6
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


The focus is on the this passage;
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.


It is true that salvation does not bring an instant end to sin in the person's life, but it does bring an instant end to sinning as a practice no matter what the previous sins were. We know that because of 1John 3;
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's [fn] seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God.


There just is no exceptions because if there was then we would all be an exception. As to your uncle I cannot tell you when he got saved, but I can tell you that when he did he no longer practiced drunkenness. He may have slipped from time to time on a particular ocasion, but it was no longer a practice because any practice of sinning proves the person is not saved according to the bible.

FAL,

Is this not exactly my point????????????

Some saved work daily to "forget those things which are behind" and they focus upon pressing on to the high calling of God.

YOUR post just validated what I said.

Thanks for agreeing!

 

[matt wade]

The point is they aren't over the addiction it is not in control while they are not drinking but one drink and right back to the addiction. They like you are still an acholoic, they have to fight the cravings the lust for it just as all christians must fight their besetting sin.

Every time someone gets over one besetting sin another comes their way. The old nature is always there with a lust for something.

I'm not an alcoholic any more. I don't have an addiction any more. I don't crave or want to drink. If the people you mention aren't over the addiction, then they need to repent.

 

[annsni]

There is no such thing as an alcoholic Chirstian. The two are contradictory to each other.

The Word of God tells us that drunkards (alchohoics) shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Christians, however, will.

OK - so now we REALLY know the unforgivable sin.

 

[revmwc]

Really? Now you've gone so far as to limit God's and the Holy Spirit's ability to lead and control a believer's life?

"cannot be control by the Holy Spirit"?

I can't believe I read those words.

Paul's words not mine, "BE YE FILLED WITH THE SPIRIT" that is a command not a fact that He will. Meant Ephesians 5"18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
Seems Paul is saying one must make a conscious decision to not be drunk with wine but rather to be filled or controlled by the Holy Spirit. Paul's words not mine. Not limiting God the Holy Spirit, but Paul did command us to be filled. Which means we can be controlled by something other than the Spirit as believers.

 

[matt wade]

The child is absolutely an addict - and medically so!!

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/978492-overview

The child has physical dependencies that can be dealt with. They are not an addict.

 

[revmwc]

I'm not an alcoholic any more. I don't have an addiction any more. I don't crave or want to drink. If the people you mention aren't over the addiction, then they need to repent.

They have and are living without it but they know better than to take that drink because if they do they can get hooked all over again.

 

[matt wade]

They have and are living without it but they know better than to take that drink because if they do they can get hooked all over again.

Of course if they sin again they can get mired in sin again. What's your point?

 

[revmwc]

The child has physical dependencies that can be dealt with. They are not an addict.

How is it dealt with? With another medication to start.

 

[matt wade]

How is it dealt with? With another medication to start.

Your point?

 

[revmwc]

Your point?

The drug addict is treated with another drug, the person with a chemical imbalance which causes a mental illness is treated with a drug in order to make sober sound decisions, like the decision to be filled with the spirit. You see the medication isn't controlling them it is creating the mental balance they need to clearly decide to allow the Holy Spirit control their lives. The believer with a mental problem desires to live a normal life and to allow The Holy Spirit to Control their life a decison they cannot make when the chemical imbalance affecting them is dominating because it has a physical cause. Can God cure it yes if He wants too, but as we see with Paul's thorn in the Flesh sometimes God allows the thorn to make us depend on Him even the more and the balance of the chemicals in all of our lives keep us where we make those decisions. Some have to have a little help from the Doctors that God has given knowledge to create the balance of chemicals needed.

 

[agedman]

Sometimes one uses the "desires of the flesh" as if the desire itself indicates a sin.

That is a misreading of the Scriptures.

Desire alone does not equate to sin. Otherwise husbands would sin in desiring their wife. Moreover, the LORD expressed certain desires and so it is throughout the Word of God.

It is a mater of evil purpose constructed from the desire that is sin.


The Scriptures state in Ephesians 2:

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.​

Notice that it is the manner of living out the lusts and fulfilling the desires that is the sin.

Our Lord new that the impulses of the humanity were not evil in themselves, but that inappropriate working out the impulses in our mind or in our actions were what were evil.

The garden was planted with two trees that were good to look upon but not to be used for food. God new there would be a desire in the garden, but that was not sin. What was sin? NOT the desire, but the fulfilling of the desire, the conversation (way of life) brought on by the fulfillment of the desire - Just as Paul states, "Some of you were..."

In this thread, some have taken the impulse (the desire) as evil, and it is not.

 

[agedman]

Paul's thorn wasn't an addiction.

How do you know???

It isn't stated what the thorn was, just that it was from Satan.

He very well could have had some weakness of the flesh that was not physical, but emotional/mental that in the secret of being alone would seek to crush him in guilt and shame.

The Scriptures state, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Eph.

 

[annsni]

The child has physical dependencies that can be dealt with. They are not an addict.

Physical dependencies is not addiction? ??????????????????????????????????

Here is the definition of addiction from dictionary.com

"the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma."

 

[freeatlast]

The child is absolutely an addict - and medically so!!

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/978492-overview

an
an addict is not a medical problem. It is a spiritual issue due to sin.