Granted, it is in a context of resurrection and dealing with sadducees who believed man ceased to exist at the point of physical death. Grant all of that.
You're not "granting" it.
You acknowledge the difference between a context of physical life/death and spiritual...and then ignore it and try to build a case for your view.
The proof-text is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The Lord's point is that men do not cease to exist after physical death.
We don't use that to distinguish between the physically dead as to whether they had been regenerate or not.
You cannot ignore the Lord's Own statement...
John 6:48-53
King James Version (KJV)
48 I am that bread of life.
49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?
53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
You are imposing the True Bread from Heaven into an Economy in which it does not exist.
"Eating of His flesh" and "drinking of His blood" is clearly spelled out as in relation...to His death on the Cross. Thus to eat of His flesh and drink of His blood is to place faith in His Work...which had not been accomplished at this point.
It can be stated like this: "Except ye believe that My Death is your salvation...ye have no life in you."
However, the term "living" is not synonymous with existence as "life" and "death" are both forms of existence in regard to the immaterial part of man. The immaterial part of the wicked after death is NEVER described as "liveth" because it is "dead" (separated spiritually from God).
I agree. Those that are raised to life again to stand before the Great White Throne are called...dead.
However, the Lord states above "Your fathers are dead" and except one believe on Christ in relation to the Cross...they have no life in them.
Jesus said in reference to Lazerus, who like Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were in the grave and the bodies were "dead" but in regard to their souls he said, "he that liveth and beleiveth in me shall never die." The body does dies, and it is the STATE OF LIFE in the soul that denies it shall "ever die".
You are pasting passages together without regard to context.
Consider Lazarus and the Rich Man: was it Heaven, in the presence of the Lord Lazarus is said to be?
No, Lazarus is said by the Lord to be in Abraham's Bosom, a Jewish euphemism for the place of the departed just in Sheol. Abraham refers the Rich Man's brothers, not to the Gospel, but to the Law and the Prophets, or in other words, the available Scripture, the Hebrew Scriptures. The method of enlightenment, by which his brothers could evade Hades and the torment the Rich Man was in was not the Comforter, as it is under New Covenant condition, but the available provision under an Economy which was still the Covenant of Law.
The soul is in a QUICKENED state rather than in a SEPARATED (dead) state of existence - both are in existence but only the QUICKENED soul can be said to be in a state of LIFE never the immaterial soul of the wicked.
The "soul" is usually a general reference to man in his totality, though some see this as a reference to the immaterial aspect of man. The Lord does not reference the soul here...
Luke 24:39
King James Version (KJV)
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Because many fail to properly place in context the use of "soul," this has led to the error of Soul Sleep and Annihilation.
When man dies physically, his spirit separates from his body, and while he can still be referenced as a "soul," it is the spirit that goes to the destination this person has chosen for him/herself while alive. This is true also of the Old Testament Saint, who because their sin had not been atoned for...did not come into the presence of God, but as the Old Testament establishes, went to Sheol at death.
Only after Christ had provided the means of Atonement for sin could it be possible for man to come into His presence.
We see that, also, in Hebrews:
Hebrews 9:6-12
King James Version (KJV)
6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Notice "...the way into the Holiest of all was not yet made manifest."
What the Writer is saying is that while man could come into God's presence through a parable, a shadow, the way into the true presence of God was not available to man.
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
The "time of reformation" was the coming of Christ, that the way into the Holiest of All might be made manifest.
11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
By His Own Blood Christ entered into the Holiest of All, and it is through this, note carefully...Eternal Redemption was obtained for us.
This is, like most of the Book of Hebrews, contrasting what the Law accomplished and what Christ accomplished.
Like I said, the fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David...all died not having their sin atoned for, and not having the provision promised by God in the New Covenant as realized.
The Writer makes this clear:
14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
The transgressions of the Old Testament Saint had to be redeemed by...
...the Blood of Christ. He had to die before that could occur.
By His death, His Blood, His Offering (all referring to the same thing, His death on the Cross)...He provided the means of remission of sins in completion, whereas the Levitical Economy could not. He provided access to God at death. He atoned for the transgressions of the Old Testament Saint.
The Writer will reiterate this in the next Chapter:
Hebrews 10:15-20
King James Version (KJV)
15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
"The Holiest" in view here is Heaven itself. Entrance to the Holiest is through the Blood of Christ. Just as the Priest would go through the veil in the temporal Temple, the Incarnation is said here to be the veil which we go through to enter into God's presence.
So it is impossible for the soul to be in the state of LIFE apart from quickening or otherwise, it too is in a state of DEATH (separation from God). Remember, in regard to the immaterial part of man death and life are not to be understood as existence and cessation but TWO DIFFERENT FORMS of existence.
All you need to understand is that eternal life was made possible through the Work of Christ. It was not available before then, thus Eternal Redemption was not ascribed to the Old Testament Saint. They were assured of redemption, but until Christ atoned for the sins they remained separated on an eternal level from God.
God is not the God of "THE DEAD" soul or body. But he is the God of the "LIVING" while in the body and out of the body - the quickened soul.
God is not the God of the Fathers that Christ states...are dead?
Keep it in context, my friend, or you will continue to blur the issue.
God bless.
