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The Nine Gifts of the Spirit
- Thread starter plain_n_simple
- Start date
Have found any reason to believe that the sign gifts are still in existence?
Can you point to anyone anywhere in the world today that has the gift of healing, and healed on the level that Peter did in Acts 5:16?
Can you point to anyone anywhere in the world today that has the supernatural gift of tongues (languages)? If this person does have this gift is he a missionary using this gift on a mission field so that they don't have to learn the language like the rest of their denominational members do?
Can you point to anyone anywhere today that has the Biblical gift of prophecy as it was in the NT, and can actually give new revelation. But this would not be Biblical for the canon has closed and there is no new revelation today.
Can you point to anyone today that has the gift of miracles and can perform a miracle at will?
These are called the sign gifts. They are not in operation today but ceased at the end of the first century. They were "the signs of an apostle." They authenticated the apostle and the apostle's message, were given during a time that revelation was being given. Now is not that time.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
I totally understand you Moriah, and I agree. Even if a person has a gift, that person must still use faith and belief for the gift to manifest. When a believer heals, it is also depends on faith and belief. I'm not sure of how to distinguish between "gifted" and "believer" yet. Both still exist. Both result in doing the works that Jesus did.
If we take your explanation about the gift of healing, then there are no distributions of particular gifts to some and not others (1 Cor. 12:4-7, 11; 12:29-30) but rather all Christians are equally given all these gifts and only need faith to manifest them.
It appears that you have already made up your mind due to some kind of external experience and now just trying to make God's Word fit your view!
A more objective way is to approach God's Word and let it interpret itself.
For example, if merely faith is all that is necessary to exercise any of these nine gifts then what do you do with those scriptures that deny that God gives all believers these gifts?
1 Cor. 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
The very nature of the questions in relationship to the very first question "are all apostles" demands "no" as the answer. However, the Greek text actually repeats the Greek word for "no" (Gr. me) at the beginning of each phrase.
If mere faith was all that is necessary to exercise any of these named gifts then why would Paul say:
8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
Thank you, plain n simple.
Yes.
What you say here is an excellent thought concerning this topic. I want to tell you what I think about it. Then I would like to hear what you think.
Christians are not all at the same place with their beliefs. What I am trying to explain is some are more knowledgeable about the true gospel. Therefore, when the true believer comes to someone who has not yet heard the true gospel, and If that not yet saved person has an illness, the person with faith in healing can pray and the sick one can be healed, as a testimony from God for the gospel. Do you know what I mean? There was a time when I was a Catholic and never heard the true gospel, but when two people saw that I was sick (an ear, throat, and eye infection), these Christians asked if they could pray for me, they prayed and I was instantly healed.
The scriptures say that God testified to the gospel. Hebrews 2:2-4 This salvation, which was first announced by the Lord, was confirmed to us by those who heard him. 4 God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and by gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.
I do want to say though, that the healing is still there by believers, just not in such a magnitude of the Apostles during the laying of the foundation of the earth.
The very Scripture you use points to the purpose of these gifts. They were sign gifts of the Apostles. They verified the message of the Apostles, and of the Apostles themselves.
"...confirmed to us by those that heard him...by signs, wonders...and by gifts of the Holy Spirit."
Those that heard him were the Apostles. They testified of the works of the Lord by the gifts of the Holy Spirit which were given to them. There are no Apostles today, hence no supernatural gifts today.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
That is an exact example of the true Gospel being preached Moriah! I rejoice with you! God gets the glory amen. True faith with works.
1 Corinthians 2:3-5
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1 Corinthians 4:19-21
But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power.
For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.
Many preachers and people witnessing can preach a very well intentioned message, but without the power of the Holy Spirit confirming that message by manfesting, it is less than what Jesus instructed.
Gentleman,
You have made up your minds what you want to believe and then gone to the scriptures to attempt to prove it.
Hebrews 2:4 speaks of the past tense not the present tense and refers to the apostles who actually heard Christ.
1 Corinthians 12 completely denies your theory that faith makes the gifts available to all Christians as I have proven in a previous post.
Obviously, though you don't seem to care about debating this issue even when this is a "debate" forum.
plain_n_simple
Active Member
I've read scripture and it has renewed my mind to believe.
Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever.
I said it would take faith as in anything with God, not that a gift is available because of faith, as a reward. I did not explain correct.
You have a strong desire to be right, whether it benefits anyone else or not, it's all about you. You are selfish in this manner and are a law unto yourself.
We are not talking about Jesus but about gifts. Jesus does not work the same in all ages. No signs gifts before Pentecost but Jesus remained the same before Pentecost.
You are not too clear here.
Any time you or Moriah are challenged with the Word of God you respond by personal attacks. This is a debate forum and we would expect a response to the data presented in our posts. I presented Biblical evidence that explicitly denies that all believers have all gifts made available to them by merely exercising faith. I underscored the repeated phrase "to another is given" demonstrating that such gifts are not given to every beleiver. I pointed out the negative particle "me" (no) in 1 Cor. 12:29-30 proving that all gifts are not available to every beleiver regardless of their faith.
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the bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit Himself decides just who gets which Gifts!
so its up to him, and some of those gifts listed such as tongues/prophesy etc are no longer in place, as we have the full revelation of God to us, and no longer have additional revelation from sign gifts!
God still heals today, but no one has faith healing gift!
You do realise that MOST of modern charasmatic theology derives fro, misunderstanding the book of Acts was a transistion book, that all that was recorded in it happened, but not all of it happens today!
Also. MUCH of it based upon the extra biblcal 'revelations" from false Apsotles/Prophets said to be in church today!
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Thank you for your opinion. God bless
just curious...
On WHAT basis do you know that your spiritual experiences are valid?
By experiences, results, or the Bible?
plain_n_simple
Active Member
Romans 12...Mark 16...John 14....it's His will.
remember that the early Church had a transistion period between Old and new Covenants, and that until the Apostolic teachingwas firmly woven into the church by their Epistles/gospels, there was a need to confirm/verify the authenicity of jesus, and during THAT period of time had offices of the Apostle/prophet in operation to give forth revelation to early church, NOT required after Apostolic olic Age ended, definitly not for today!
God still does Divine healing today, IF it be His will, does give teachers/pastors/encoragers etc
just sign gifts and miracle worker faith healers NOT for today, as IF that happens, due to God period!
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