The Nine Gifts of the Spirit

[plain_n_simple]

God still does Divine healing today, IF it be His will, does give teachers/pastors/encoragers etc

It is always Gods will to heal. The bible teaches what His will is if you seek. The gospel is always yes and amen, not maybe He will, maybe He won't lol. God bless and thank you for your input.

 

[12strings]

Question for those who believe in Miraculous healing (which I do):

Why does God only heal internal maladies, and not heal amputees. No one who claims to have the gift of healing will put their hands on an amputee and say, Lord, 'Restore this leg right now!" They know they would instantly appear foolish.

 

[DaChaser1]

God still does Divine healing today, IF it be His will, does give teachers/pastors/encoragers etc

It is always Gods will to heal. The bible teaches what His will is if you seek. The gospel is always yes and amen, not maybe He will, maybe He won't lol. God bless and thank you for your input.

why wasn't paul healed of his affirmity?

either per your belief God will was that he NOT be healed, or else paul lacked enough faith!

 

[DaChaser1]

Question for those who believe in Miraculous healing (which I do):

Why does God only heal internal maladies, and not heal amputees. No one who claims to have the gift of healing will put their hands on an amputee and say, Lord, 'Restore this leg right now!" They know they would instantly appear foolish.

could it be that the miracles/healings that happened in time of Christ would be due to God being present among them, and was done to prove/confirm what was prophesied of coming messiah?

The Will of God CANNOT be that ALL christian at this time experience health/wealth/prosperity all the time, as NONE of the Apostles experienced that, and jesus NEVER said that we would not experience tribulation, but that we can still rejoice in him as he had overcome the World!

 

[DHK]

God still does Divine healing today, IF it be His will, does give teachers/pastors/encoragers etc

It is always Gods will to heal. The bible teaches what His will is if you seek. The gospel is always yes and amen, not maybe He will, maybe He won't lol. God bless and thank you for your input.

Is it always God's will to be healed?
Paul was not healed of his infirmity whatever it was, though he asked three times.
Paul prayed for Timothy's sickness and he wasn't healed. "Take a little wine for thy oft infirmities," he said.
He said, "Trophimus I have left sick at Miletus.
"Epraphoditus was sick, nigh even unto death," Paul testified.

It was not God's will for any of these to be healed. God has his own purpose in sickness, and in infirmities of various sorts. The disciples wondered who was at fault with the blind man in John 8. Was it his own fault, or the fault of his parents. Jesus answered, no, but that the glory of God might be made manifest.

I believe in healing. I have seen God's mighty hand in healing, even miraculously. But that is not the question here. It is not healing, per se. We all agree that God heals. The question is, does God currently give the gift of healing as he did in NT times. I would have to say no. I have never seen nor heard from anyone in all my ministry of anyone that has this gift. And it would be an "earth-shattering" event if it should happen in our generation.
Here is the the type of thing that would happen if someone today had the gift of healing:

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

There were thousands that were healed--broken bones, cripples, blind, mute, deaf, leprosy, all kinds of diseases.
Look at the verse. They came not only from Jerusalem but from all the cities surrounding Jerusalem, and they were healed everyone. There was nothing too difficult for Peter, through the Spirit of God, to heal.

That doesn't happen today. That would be the equivalent of one person going through all the hospitals of any given city (especially the ER's) and healing all the sick--putting the hospitals out of business. No one has ever done that. The gift has ceased.

 

[DaChaser1]

Is it always God's will to be healed?
Paul was not healed of his infirmity whatever it was, though he asked three times.
Paul prayed for Timothy's sickness and he wasn't healed. "Take a little wine for thy oft infirmities," he said.
He said, "Trophimus I have left sick at Miletus.
"Epraphoditus was sick, nigh even unto death," Paul testified.

It was not God's will for any of these to be healed. God has his own purpose in sickness, and in infirmities of various sorts. The disciples wondered who was at fault with the blind man in John 8. Was it his own fault, or the fault of his parents. Jesus answered, no, but that the glory of God might be made manifest.

I believe in healing. I have seen God's mighty hand in healing, even miraculously. But that is not the question here. It is not healing, per se. We all agree that God heals. The question is, does God currently give the gift of healing as he did in NT times. I would have to say no. I have never seen nor heard from anyone in all my ministry of anyone that has this gift. And it would be an "earth-shattering" event if it should happen in our generation.
Here is the the type of thing that would happen if someone today had the gift of healing:

Acts 5:16 There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

There were thousands that were healed--broken bones, cripples, blind, mute, deaf, leprosy, all kinds of diseases.
Look at the verse. They came not only from Jerusalem but from all the cities surrounding Jerusalem, and they were healed everyone. There was nothing too difficult for Peter, through the Spirit of God, to heal.

That doesn't happen today. That would be the equivalent of one person going through all the hospitals of any given city (especially the ER's) and healing all the sick--putting the hospitals out of business. No one has ever done that. The gift has ceased.

We see that in the Bible, where paul can perform acts of healings, but near end of his life, has to suggest to Timotjy totake wine for stomach ills, and has to endure his afflication on the Flesh!

 

[plain_n_simple]

Question for those who believe in Miraculous healing (which I do):

Why does God only heal internal maladies, and not heal amputees. No one who claims to have the gift of healing will put their hands on an amputee and say, Lord, 'Restore this leg right now!" They know they would instantly appear foolish.

There is the problem: "They know they would instantly appear foolish."
That is pride, and God will not respond to pride.

"They know" they would fail? That is unbelief, or no faith. It will not happen without faith.

"Why does God only heal internal maladies, and not heal amputees." Your experience or what you have heard doesn't mean that is all the reports of these things happening all around the earth. Most people will suggest that if healing does not happen in their church, it does not happen at all.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Is it always God's will to be healed?

Yes. Jesus never failed, and He did what He saw the Father do. His will on earth as it is in heaven.

When the disciples asked Jesus why they could not hal the epilectic, He answered because of their unbelief.

Saying that God gives disease to teach is an unlearned thing to say. Paul was being attacked of Satan, not a sickness.

Many will spend all their time finding why miracles won't happen instead of finding why they will happen. That is unbelief and fear of steppeng out in faith.

 

[DaChaser1]

Yes. Jesus never failed, and He did what He saw the Father do. His will on earth as it is in heaven.

When the disciples asked Jesus why they could not hal the epilectic, He answered because of their unbelief.

Saying that God gives disease to teach is an unlearned thing to say. Paul was being attacked of Satan, not a sickness.

Many will spend all their time finding why miracles won't happen instead of finding why they will happen. That is unbelief and fear of steppeng out in faith.

you have NO verse in the NT that supports that God will is to always do divine healing to Christians ...

We are told that elders are to pray over those who are sick among the body, and IF it will be the Will of god, the person will be healed!

by his stripes we were healed is used by those holding to divine healing, but both Apostles peter/paul as referring primarily to healing of our spiritual sickness/sins NOT to physical healing being provided for us in the Atonement!

God can choose to heal today, but NOT absolute that He will!

As sometimes He gets greater glory by allowing the saint to stay in their sickness!

 

[plain_n_simple]

you have NO verse in the NT that supports that God will is to always do divine healing to Christians ...

On earth as it is in heaven for starters....

We are told that elders are to pray over those who are sick among the body, and IF it will be the Will of god, the person will be healed!

This verse says nothing about "IF". It says they will get healed. You twist to fit your unbelief.
James 5
14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

....god can choose to heal today, but NOT absolute that He will!

Scripture or your unbelieving opinion?

 

[DHK]

Yes. Jesus never failed, and He did what He saw the Father do. His will on earth as it is in heaven.

When the disciples asked Jesus why they could not hal the epilectic, He answered because of their unbelief.

Saying that God gives disease to teach is an unlearned thing to say. Paul was being attacked of Satan, not a sickness.

Many will spend all their time finding why miracles won't happen instead of finding why they will happen. That is unbelief and fear of steppeng out in faith.

The Bible tells us such gifts shall cease. See 1Cor.13:8. Thus the question is when? I believe that answer can be given--at the end of the first century when the canon of Scripture was complete.

Secondly, if the gift were for today, please notify me as to where it is being practiced. As I described to you there is no one in all the world that is practicing such a gift. With our technology and media today anyone who would be miraculously healing thousands of people with visible ailments and infirmities such as broken limbs would be a world-wide phenomenon right away. "All the world would go after him." But, alas, no such thing has happened. The gift doesn't exist.

Note also that Peter healed all that came to him without bias--that is, whether they had faith or not. The healing was according to the will of Peter, not according to the person that was sick.

 

[plain_n_simple]

The Bible tells us such gifts shall cease. See 1Cor.13:8. Thus the question is when? I believe that answer can be given--at the end of the first century when the canon of Scripture was complete.

Secondly, if the gift were for today, please notify me as to where it is being practiced. As I described to you there is no one in all the world that is practicing such a gift. With our technology and media today anyone who would be miraculously healing thousands of people with visible ailments and infirmities such as broken limbs would be a world-wide phenomenon right away. "All the world would go after him." But, alas, no such thing has happened. The gift doesn't exist.

Note also that Peter healed all that came to him without bias--that is, whether they had faith or not. The healing was according to the will of Peter, not according to the person that was sick.

If you believe Mark 16, then the gifts don't matter, we are to do the works Jesus did, not find unbelieving doctrine. This is why you do nothing.

 

[Alcott]

If you believe Mark 16, then the gifts don't matter, we are to do the works Jesus did, not find unbelieving doctrine. This is why you do nothing.

If you believe Mark 16, then you, as a believer (I'm assuming), have picked up snakes, drank poison, and spoke in other languages. Those signs will accompany those who believe.

 

[plain_n_simple]

If you believe Mark 16, then you, as a believer (I'm assuming), have picked up snakes, drank poison, and spoke in other languages. Those signs will accompany those who believe.

Your point? Are you asking? Just sayin?

Or are you arguing with scripture?

 

[The Biblicist]

If you believe Mark 16, then the gifts don't matter, we are to do the works Jesus did, not find unbelieving doctrine. This is why you do nothing.

Mk. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

I imagine this is the text you refer to? Do you selectively choose which of those things in verses 16-18 you believe are now being practiced among "them that believe"? Taking up serpents and casting out devils and able to drink any deadly thing and recover!

Either all these things right now do "follow them that believe" or they do not!

If they do, don't you think that drastically reduces the number of true believers down to very very few professing Christians today as these things are not following "them that believe" among the vast majority of professing denominations.

Do you cast out demons? Do you lay hands on your sick friends and they do recover? Are you capable of handling posions snakes and drink poisons drinks?

However, have you noticed that verse 20 speaks of it in the past tense as a prophecy already fulfilled?

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Have you noticed that Hebrews 2: 4 applies to the apostles and those who heard them rather presently occurring when Hebrews was being written:

Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Note he did not say "us" but "them"? Did you notice that both Mark 16:20 and hebrews 2:3-4 identify the purpose of these signs and wonders as confirmation of their words. When the apostolic mission to complete the Biblical canon was confirmed and acomplished then there was need for the continuation of sign gifts (Heb. 2:13 with Isa. 8:16-18,20; Acts 2:22).

 

[DHK]

If you believe Mark 16, then the gifts don't matter, we are to do the works Jesus did, not find unbelieving doctrine. This is why you do nothing.

Which verse are quoting--do the works that Jesus did?
What is its context?

Does it include:
Walking on water?
Calming the turbulent sea?
Feeding the 5,000 with just a few fish and a couple of loaves of bread?
Changing water into wine?
Raising the dead (already four days buried and in the grave like Lazarus)?
Making the blind to see?
Making the lame to walk?

Does it include all of these?
If so, how many of the works of Jesus have you done?

 

[plain_n_simple]

Mk. 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

I imagine this is the text you refer to?

Yes

Do you selectively choose which of those things in verses 16-18 you believe are now being practiced among "them that believe"?

No, I believe all are meant for today.

Either all these things right now do "follow them that believe" or they do not!

According to the persons faith, yes.

If they do, don't you think that drastically reduces the number of true believers down to very very few professing Christians today as these things are not following "them that believe" among the vast majority of professing denominations.

Correct, the path is wide and the gate narrow.

Do you cast out demons? Do you lay hands on your sick friends and they do recover?

Yes, though not 100% yet. I'm growing in Christ, faith to faith, grace to grace.

Are you capable of handling posions snakes and drink poisons drinks?

I do not tempt God. This verse is misunderstood to those that have no revelation. Paul "picked up" a snake once, and the people were amazed he was not dead. The term "picked up" does not mean he intentionally picked up a snake to show off, or prove, That is tempting God. You should know this.

Christ's instructions are for those yesterday, us today, and forever til He comes back. This is the true walk, following Him, doing His works, being His disciple. These things are done for His glory amen. It is not for those who flatter with the lips. Faith without works is no faith at all.

 

[plain_n_simple]

Which verse are quoting--do the works that Jesus did?
What is its context?

Does it include:
Walking on water?
Calming the turbulent sea?
Feeding the 5,000 with just a few fish and a couple of loaves of bread?
Changing water into wine?
Raising the dead (already four days buried and in the grave like Lazarus)?
Making the blind to see?
Making the lame to walk?

Does it include all of these?
If so, how many of the works of Jesus have you done?

Tell me of your great testimonies DHK. Tell me the great works of faith you have done, after all, you are the resident "expert" that believes nothing.

 

[The Biblicist]

Correct, the path is wide and the gate narrow.

In other words, you are saying that if such signs do not follow a particular person that is proof they are lost? However, such signs did not accompany believers in Christ before His first advent (Acts 10:43) so are they lost? Isn't Jesus the same "yesterday" as much as "today"? Why didn't such signs follow beleivers before the Cross as they believed in the very same gospel that we do according to Hebrews 4:2

Heb. 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them:

Yes, though not 100% yet. I'm growing in Christ, faith to faith, grace to grace.

So, do you cast demons out half way and partially heal people? Is healing according to your faith or according to the faith of the one you are healing?


I noticed that you completely ignore scriptures that do not support your position (Mk. 16:20; Heb. 2:3-4; 1 Cor. 12:4-7,11, 29-30). Why?

 

[The Biblicist]

1 Cor. 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

The very nature of the questions demand that the answer is NO! Indeed, in the Greek text the word for "no" is found in regard to each item.

When I drew the conclusion that the absence of such signs following the vast majority of professed Christians today would indicate they are lost by his analysis he replied:

Correct, the path is wide and the gate narrow - Plain-n-simple

Here is the problem with those who believe any of these items are essential for salvation or sanctification of the individual believer as Plain-n-Simple asserts.

Apostles are included with Speaking in tongues and workers of miracles in 1 Cor. 12:29-30 and yet Paul is emphatically denying that such gifts are given to every Christian.

1. Hence, none can be essential for salvation or else all would be given to every Christian because salvation is inseparable from being a true Christian.

2. None can be essential for progressive sanctification or else all would be given to every Christian because it is the will of God that every Christian be sanctified.

Hence, certain servant gifts (apostles, prophets) and sign gifts (tongues, workers of miracles; etc.) are not designed by God for all God's children in all ages. Jesus is the same but He does not work the same with all believers in all ages.