Anyone hold to this view here? What are your arguments and why do you choose to follow the teachings of two men that have espoused this view?
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The pre-wrath rapture view
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OldRegular
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If it is dispensational it is not biblical. It is the invention of John Nelson Darby and his disciples!
This is a debate between dispensationalists not a debate on dispensationalism.
Old Regular can't help it. Whenever he sees "dispensation", like a Pavlovian dog he responds with, "John Nelson Darby."
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Sad but true, What's really annoying is I have given him several quotes from ancient church fathers who believe in a rapture. and he still continues to spout that Darby, but he just continues to tell his lies.
The problem I see with the pre wrath rapture view is that it's similar to the pre trib rapture in that it divides Jesus's second coming into two events. Jesus returns before the trumpet and bowls judgement and at Armageddon.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Why debate false doctrine on a Baptist Board?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Why not? According to dispensational scholar Thomas Ice John Nelson Darby is tg]he father of pre-trib-dispensationalism. You pre tribbers at least should know the originator of the false doctrine you follow!
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OldRegular
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Darby is the father of pre-trtib-dispensational error. That is true! You can spout all the lies about the so-called rapture you choose but the truth is what it is. Read dispensational scholar Thomas Ice before you put "yo" mouth in gear!
Strange how the truth annoys the pre-trib crowd!
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Depends on how second coming is defined. In the rapture Christ never sets foot on ground. We meet Him in the air and it is only for the church. The second coming Christ in fact comes back to earth and rules for 1000 years and it involves everyone.
So no it odes not divide the second coming. There is a clear difference between the second coming and the rapture. One cannot be made to be any part of the other.
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Very true. One is Biblical, the other is not!
Thomas Ice is not infallable
Irenaeus
Irenaeus (130 A.D. – 202 AD) was a bishop of the church in Lyons, France. He was an eyewitness to the Apostle John (who wrote the Book of Revelation) and a disciple of Polycarp, the first of the Apostle John’s disciples. Irenaeus is most-known for his five-volume treatise, Against Heresies in which he exposed the false religions and cults of his day along with advice for how to share the Gospel with those were a part of them.
In his writings on Bible prophecy, he acknowledged the phrase “a time, times and dividing of times” in Daniel 7 to signify the 3 ½ year reign of the Antichrist as ruler of the world before the Second Coming of Christ. He also believed in a literal Millennial reign of Christ on earth following the Second Coming and the resurrection of the just.
On the subject of the Rapture, in Against Heresies 5.29, he wrote:
“Those nations however, who did not of themselves raise up their eyes unto heaven, nor returned thanks to their Maker, nor wished to behold the light of truth, but who were like blind mice concealed in the depths of ignorance, the word justly reckons “as waste water from a sink, and as the turning-weight of a balance — in fact, as nothing;”(1) so far useful and serviceable to the just, as stubble conduces towards the growth of the wheat, and its straw, by means of combustion, serves for working gold. And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, “There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.”(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
Irenaeus in this passage describes the church leaving the sinful world just before unprecedented disasters. Note his use of the term “caught up” which is Rapture terminology as that is the meaning of harpazo, the term for “caught up” in the King James Bible describing the Rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4. He then quotes Matthew 24:21 where The Lord Jesus Christ says: “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” And it is during this time that those who convert to Christianity during the final years will receive the incorruptible crown mentioned by the Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:25. In Irenaeus’ belief, the Rapture took place prior to the end times Great Tribulation
Old Regular you are a flat out liar if you are going to continue to teach that Darby invented the Pre-Trib Rapture, seeing as how Iraneus predates him around 1500 years.give up your Darby routine.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Impressive to say tyhe least. I am sure that al; on the BB will be equally imprtessed.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
You have a problem with Thomas Ice, not me. It is very interesting how defensive you pre-tribbers get when someone points out your error. If you were really a Bible scholar you could prove your doctrine by Scripture, not Irenaeus or Darv]by, or Scofield, Or, Or, Or! But then the entire pre-trib-dispensational doctrine is false, the invention of one John Nelson Darby of the Plymouth Brethern!
Many have already taken this to task with you, I am simply pointing out that you are using lies to try and attack the pre trib doctrine.
Can't you refute doctrine using scripture and not by attacking Darby?
Kinda makes you look like a hypocrite.
It's fun watching you huff-and-puff and get so wound up whenever the word Dispensationalism is typed.
Dispensationalism!
Dispensationalism!
Dispensationalism!
LOL!
As I said you want a debate on dispensationalism then start another thread. All involved in this debate agree with dispensationalism, we just do not agree on the timing of the rapture.
He needs to get out of this thread and create a new one.
This is not a debate on dispensationalism but on the timing of the rapture.
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