THE RAPTURE

[Charles Meadows]

Some people just don't have understanding due to their rejection of bible truth.

That's not very nice Carl. The only think WE reject is your slightly slanted exposition of these verses. Pauline dispensationalism is a human interpretive doctrine - and one that is not supported by scholarly study of the NT/OT.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Some people just don't have understanding due to their rejection of bible truth.

That's not very nice Carl. The only think WE reject is your slightly slanted exposition of these verses. Pauline dispensationalism is a human interpretive doctrine - and one that is not supported by scholarly study of the NT/OT.

That's a true statement of biblical principle Charles, whether it offends you or not. (See Matt.15)

Don't speak about being nice either, after other innunendos printed by yourself. No, I'm not going to waste my time looking them up either and printing you a list which Old Reg likes to do but LEAVES his out. If you're not going to REFUTE the teaching, then don't personally attack the teacher by stating he's not nice. Quit your whining and produce your verses. That's what I did. I CORRECTED the false statement made concerning dispensationalists not using allegorical statements.

This teacher is following biblical example by stating biblical principle. Like I said, Some don't have understanding due to their rejection of biblical truth.

 

[Paul33]

I'm glad, Carl, that you found the biblical truth and have decided to share it with us in your charming Southern way.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Paul33:
I'm glad, Carl, that you found the biblical truth and have decided to share it with us in your charming Southern way.

Are you boys going to speak about the subject, including the places where you have been corrected by the Holy Scriptures, or are you just going to continue being derogatory against biblical principle with snide comments? The ole' Southernor Paul (Tribe of Benjamin) spoke dogmatically, didactically, and declaratively. I admire his WAY OF TEACHING (which mimics the Lord's, Matt.7). Many folks teach like the Pharisees, Sadduccees, scribes, and lawyers.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Carl: Actually it appears we are going to
define "a-mill" in the Dispensation thread,
ignore the a-mill thread. All this is in
direct violation of the "post on topic" rule
of this Board. I've been wrong so many times
i'm giving up on predicting what will happen
on this Topic.

 

[Paul33]

Carl, you see division where there isn't any. You take synonymous events, words, and phrases and build elaborate distinctions between them.

It is beyond the scope of this forum to point out much more than that.

I read "gospel" and understand that there is only one gospel. You see many. We disagree and nothing I can say will ever change your mind.

Classic Dispensationalism is waning, and hyper-dispensationalism is all but history.

You can hang on to it if you like, but its not credible enough to even debate.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Paul33:
Carl, you see division where there isn't any. You take synonymous events, words, and phrases and build elaborate distinctions between them.

It is beyond the scope of this forum to point out much more than that.

I read "gospel" and understand that there is only one gospel. You see many. We disagree and nothing I can say will ever change your mind.

Classic Dispensationalism is waning, and hyper-dispensationalism is all but history.

You can hang on to it if you like, but its not credible enough to even debate.

Paul,

If you had read any one of my posts on the gospels, you KNOW that I quoted scripture concerning the gospels in HISTORICAL PROGRESSION. There is more than ONE FORM of the gospel. You are wrong, just as ANY JEHOVAH WITNESS teaches that Jesus is a "created god".

I will mention one example AGAIN for those who haven't read through this.

The gospel of the kingdom DID NOT include Christ's death, burial, and ressurrection. John, the Lord, the 12, and the 70 ALL preached this gospel. They did not know it, believe it, or understand it TO PREACH IT. (Matt.4,10, Luke 18) In fact, they were told NOT TO PREACH JESUS as the Christ. (Matt.16) Now how bout dat?

You can't OVERTHROW those verses by your belief, so you IGNORE THEM. You state it's beyond the scope of the forum to teach your belief. You are wise not to try and do so. It didn't take me 5 seconds to type the REFUTATION for your statement. I will give the Holy Scriptures which will IDENTIFY and DESTROY your false teaching by "plain words" every single time.

 

[Paul33]

So Jesus preached a gospel of the kingdom that didn't include his death, burial and resurrection. How about dat!

His death must have come as a big surprise to him.

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by Paul33:
So Jesus preached a gospel of the kingdom that didn't include his death, burial and resurrection. How about dat!

His death must have come as a big surprise to him.

That's RIGHT. And so did the others, who preached the gospel of the kingdom of heaven at hand. (Matt.4,10)

See, you boys are NOT going to give any verses where he preached the gospel, AS YOU KNOW IT, (1 Cor.15:1-4) to ANYONE during his earthly ministry. NOBODY COULD BELIEVE IT FOR HE HAD NOT DIED! He prophesied his death to his own APOSTLES, who didn't know it, believe it, understand it, or PREACH IT(Luke 18), although they preached the gospel of the kingdom. Are you that naive and manifest such INFIDELITY to the Holy Scriptures that you can't READ the facts?

Here's the FACTS.

Luke 18:31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.

Luke 18:32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:

Luke 18:33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Luke 18:34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Here they are AFTER THE RESURRECTION.

Luke 24:9 And returned from the sepulchre, and told all these things unto the eleven, and to all the rest.

Luke 24:10 It was Mary Magdalene, and Joanna, and Mary the mother of James, and other women that were with them, which told these things unto the apostles.

Luke 24:11 And their words seemed to them as idle tales, and they believed them not.

HE OPENS THEIR UNDERSTANDING TO THE D,B, and R.

Luke 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Luke 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Luke 24:48 And ye are witnesses of these things.


To state that they preached the gospel of 1 Cor.15:1-4 DURING the earthly ministry of the Lord Jesus Christ is UNSTABLE and UNLEARNED "foolishness". YOU DO THOUGH!

You can't exposit the verses. Again, you evade, avoid, and ignore the verses, CONTRADICTING and BLASPHEMING the truth of them. Your PREJUDICED BELIEF gets in the way of your understanding.

The Holy Scriptures HAVE CORRECTED another false teaching unbeliever of them. (2 Tim.4:1-5)

Amen and Amen.

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Since the premill/amill threads have become a little messy I'll narrow things a little.

Sorry Brother Charles Meadows,
but i can't keep the discusion focused my
myself

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Carl,

The 'gospel' during Christ's ministry on earth was not clear to HIs disciples. Till, when after Christ has risen. Christ appeared to His disciples, and to show them, that He is alive. Disiciples were doubt and had hard time to believe. Christ was patience with them for 40 days, to proof them, that He is alive. During 40 days after Christ's resurrection. Disciples were starting to understand the gospel and Christ's resurrection. I am no doubt, disciples started finally to understand the gospel and Christ's resurrection in the latter days of during 40 days. SO, on the 40th day after Christ's resurrection, Christ was on Mt. Olivet with his disciples. Christ commanded them go and preach the gospel unto the world. No doubt, disciples understood gospel means Christ's death, buried and risen by time before Christ ascend back into the heaven.

Shortly after Christ ascended, Peter preached the gospel of Christ to people of Israel on Pentacost day. 3000 souls were saved and baptized same day. Obivpusly, Peter preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ, just same as Paul preach the gospel. Both are no difference.

Gospel is not "Pauline gospel", it is Christ's gospel.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Carl,

The 'gospel' during Christ's ministry on earth was not clear to HIs disciples. Till, when after Christ has risen. Christ appeared to His disciples, and to show them, that He is alive. Disiciples were doubt and had hard time to believe. Christ was patience with them for 40 days, to proof them, that He is alive. During 40 days after Christ's resurrection. Disciples were starting to understand the gospel and Christ's resurrection. I am no doubt, disciples started finally to understand the gospel and Christ's resurrection in the latter days of during 40 days. SO, on the 40th day after Christ's resurrection, Christ was on Mt. Olivet with his disciples. Christ commanded them go and preach the gospel unto the world. No doubt, disciples understood gospel means Christ's death, buried and risen by time before Christ ascend back into the heaven.

Shortly after Christ ascended, Peter preached the gospel of Christ to people of Israel on Pentacost day. 3000 souls were saved and baptized same day. Obivpusly, Peter preached the true gospel of Jesus Christ, just same as Paul preach the gospel. Both are no difference.

Gospel is not "Pauline gospel", it is Christ's gospel.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Thank you for VERIFYING what I have known for so long JUST BY SIMPLY believing the Book. The apostles DID NOT PREACH the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ for sins (THE GOSPEL WHICH WE PREACH) "during" his earthly ministry.

They PREACHED the gospel of the kingdom is at hand, and the BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE for the remission of sins. (John's message)

You have a hard time with the word "of". Christ's GOSPEL was the gospel of the kingdom, which HE preached, which DID NOT include his D,B, and R. (Matt.4) Paul's GOSPEL was the gospel of the grace of God, which concerns Christ's D,B, and R. (Acts 20, 1 Cor.15) THEY ARE DIFFERENT as I've proved so many times by the HOLY SCRIPTURES.

Peter DID NOT preach the gospel of Christ(aka the gospel of the grace of God) on the day of Pentecost. He DIDN'T KNOW Paul's gospel for it HAD NOT beeen "communicated" unto him. (Gal.2) He preached the gospel of God (Luke 24, Mark 16, 1 Peter 4) which contains WATER BAPTISM for the reception of the Holy Spirit. (Acts 2) It was directed towards JEWS not Gentiles. Paul's gospel DOES NOT contain "water baptism" for the RECEPTION of the Holy Spirit. (Rom.1, 1 Cor.1, Eph. 1)

You are your own worst enemy when it comes to EXPLAINING and EXPOSITING what you can't read.

 

[Ed Edwards]

My post corrected:

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
Since the premill/amill threads have become a little messy I'll narrow things a little.

Sorry Brother Charles Meadows,
but i can't keep the discusion focused by
myself </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Carl,

You are your own worst enemy when it comes to EXPLAINING and EXPOSITING what you can't read

You blunting to me, this is not Christ-like. I forgive you for what you blunt on me.

I am a truly Bible believer. I read and study Bible carefully, I respect God's word 100% completely.

Matt. 4:17 is no difference as what Christ preaches, he just preached the gospel same as Paul preached. Paul preached the kingdom of heaven, just same we are preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to the world.

Yes, Apostle Peter preached the same gospel of Acts 2 as what Paul preached the gospel.

Your teaching seems to me, it sounds almost like hyper-dispensationalism to me. I do not agree with your teaching. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what I listening to any man's teaching - Colossians 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[carlaimpinge]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:
Carl,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> You are your own worst enemy when it comes to EXPLAINING and EXPOSITING what you can't read

You blunting to me, this is not Christ-like. I forgive you for what you blunt on me.

I am a truly Bible believer. I read and study Bible carefully, I respect God's word 100% completely.

Matt. 4:17 is no difference as what Christ preaches, he just preached the gospel same as Paul preached. Paul preached the kingdom of heaven, just same we are preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to the world.

Yes, Apostle Peter preached the same gospel of Acts 2 as what Paul preached the gospel.

Your teaching seems to me, it sounds almost like hyper-dispensationalism to me. I do not agree with your teaching. I rather follow what the Bible saying than what I listening to any man's teaching - Colossians 2:8.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen! </font>[/QUOTE]No. No. I'm POINTING OUT and IDENTIFYING that you are CONTRADICTING YOURSELF. You say they preached the same gospel as us, but then state that they did not know it. To "identify" that FACT is NOT being unChristlike. Don't go that route, son. Do you think Paul worried about the FORGIVENESS of Hymie and Phil (2 Tim.2) AFTER he had identified them as false teachers who lead others away from the truth, while calling them VESSELS OF DISHONOUR?

No one questioned your belief of the Bible. Quit your whining and produce your verses.

You keep spouting stuff but can't give the verses. Paul DID NOT preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven ACCORDING to any verse. That is sheer fantasy. I'm CERTAINLY NOT preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to anyone TODAY. The kingdom of heaven is not AT HAND. (Matt.4)

You keep spouting your "beliefs" as scriptural what you can't document by the Holy Bible. MY VERSES ARE THERE. Contend with them if you've got some.

Don't LABEL me son, as a hyperdispensationalist, JUST BECAUSE you can't deal with the verses. I am a Baptist, which EXCLUDES me from being a hyper. They don't baptize.

You are FREE to disagree with Pauline teaching, just as HYMIE and PHIL did.

IF you follow the Bible, you will follow the VERSES, which have been posted. If you do, you will REPENT of what you believe NOW.

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Carl,

Paul DID NOT preach the gospel of the kingdom of heaven ACCORDING to any verse. That is sheer fanstasy

Oh absolutely yes! Paul preached tge gospel of the kingdom of heaven. Find in Acts 20:25 - "And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more."

You are right, word, 'kingdom of HEAVEN' is not find anywhere in the 13 epistles of Paul's.

But, both 'kingdom of God' & 'kingdom of heaven' are synonmous meaning. For example find in Matthew 19:23-24 - "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, 'Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. And AGAIN I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich to enter into the kingdom of God."

Clearly, Christ tells us, both 'kingdom of heaven' & 'kingdom of God' are same.

I'm CERTAINLY NOT preaching the gospel of the kingdom of heaven to anyone TODAY

Please define what 'kingdom of heaven' mean?

The kingdom of heaven is not AT HAND

Didn't you realize that the kingdom is already present within you of Luke 17:21 since after Christ brought it from the heaven 2,000 years ago.

Premills teach, the kingdom of Israel is postponed, delay till second coming, because Jews of Israel reject Jesus as their Messiah.

Where did they get the idea comes from?

Christ never fail by bring the kingdom from the heaven to us. Kingdom of God/heaven is already present within us through the Holy Spirit for nearly 2,000 years.

IF you follow the Bible, you will follow the VERSES, which have been posted. If you do, you will REPENT of what you believe NOW.

Absolutely! Yes, I do follow the Bible 100%, I am a truly Bible believer, I am a baptist.

You have to understand, many Christians have their rights to have their own defend of their belief, what they believe. I cannot change your beliefs, you cannot change mine beliefs. We cannot be expecting that every Christians have the same view and same interpreting the Bible.

2 Tim. 2:15 commands us, that we ought to study the Bible more serious and carefully, and study correctly.

I never being be satisfy know everything what the Bible saying, I still learning them, never stop learning till I die, or Christ comes.

I know that you follow the Bible 100% as what you claim. But, I disagree with you own interpreting the Bible. Of course, you disagree with my intepreting the Bible. That is fine with me. Long as you and I both believe Jesus Christ is our saviour, who died on the cross, and he is alive, and He is coming again. This is the basic fundamentally belief of the Bible, what you and I both believe.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[DeafPosttrib]

Hey,

We seem off the track, discuss on dispensationalism. We need back to the same track focus on the topic of rapture, please.

Again, OldRegular and I both are still waiting for you to show us to prove a verse in the Bible saying that rapture will be occur 3 1/2 or 7 years EARLIER BEFORE Christ's coming.

I am waiting for anyone of you to prove us a clear verse saying that our gathering together shall be 3 1/2 or 7 years earlier BEFORE Christ's coming.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[HankD]

Bro Carl, I have a question for you.
Not a litmus test and I have no ax to grind, just a sincere area of question:

Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Here is my area of question:
As a Baptist do you believe that baptizing TODAY in the name of the Trinity as given in Matthew 28 is proper and why?

Why in your view is this Trinitarian formula only used here by Christ in the "Great Commission" and not by the Apostles in Acts or the epistles?

Thanks.

HankD

 

[HankD]

We seem off the track, discuss on dispensationalism. We need back to the same track focus on the topic of rapture, please.

It is related DPT.

Our view of the rapture is directly related to our dispensational view as to it's when and where.

HankD

 

[OldRegular]

One problem is that some seem to believe that the Gospel is simply the recitation of a number of historical truths. Actually if we believe Scripture the Apostle Paul tells us in Romans 1:16

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

If someone else can find a different definition of the Gospel in Scripture I would be glad to read it.