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THE RAPTURE
- Thread starter Charles Meadows
- Start date
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
FTL - Faster Than Light!
Or could that be Fruit of The Loom (FTL)
Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
[QB] ituttut: What was written before Damascus Road was for our learning; not for application to us.
This statement typifies the problems with much of dispensationalist thought. Jesus (God Himself) came to earth and spoke - and we've got it on paper!!!
But many of our brethren choose to say that what Jesus said is "not for us". They say this because it doesn't fit into their pre-determined theological scheme. A strict literal interpretation of the scriptures is more important than the words of Jesus.
Hello Charles. Away on another Board, and another on this board in another thread, and finally got my income tax off. Think I’ll go party as will get some back this year, thanks to our good Friend G. W. Bush,
So, you mean you don’t believe anything else in the Bible? You believe only what He said while on earth? Noah believed him; Abram/Abraham believe him, as did Moses, David and some others while He was in heaven. We may as well throw away all from the beginning, until Jesus was born, and then died. My, my, what a guy. Just like Shakespeare so many reverence, or some well-known philosophers.
Don’t you find we really get into trouble when all we read, preach, teach, and write about are four gospels?
He speaks to me from heaven, as He lives through His Word, called the Bible. God wrote the whole thing I believe while in heaven, then on earth, then back in heaven. He died down here. Paul tells us this, if we hadn’t already figured it out for ourselves.
While He was down here, He told me He didn’t come for me. Are you a Gentile? If so you can forget about being saved into His Body, and become a proselyte to the Jewish religion. However, if you don’t believe Christ from heaven then He will divide you out, even if you fail to do so, as long as you believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ for your salvation. This is the only way one can be saved today.
I see you do not believe Christ spoke to Paul face to face, and on more than one occasion, or that Paul was taken to heaven. You don’t believe Christ from heaven, and I am sorry for that. I find more and more that only believe Jesus, a man that died on the Cross for our sins. If it stops there then there is not hope. He arose, and is alive seated right next to His Father. He tells us now God will reconcile the whole world to Himself, for all that believe His Word from heaven.
If we don’t believe Paul’s gospel are the words of Christ from heaven, then is Paul a fraud? Is his message from the devil? He got his message from somewhere, and there are only two that we humans believe. We believe Paul speaks in truth, or we believe Paul speaks in lies.
Paul the apostle recorded the SUBSEQUENT STATEMENTS of the Lord Jesus Christ FROM HEAVEN to the body of Christ. (Acts 26, 2 Cor.12, 1 Cor.14, Eph.3) His words are not found ONLY IN RED within the gospels. Those are the words of his JEWISH MINISTRY while on EARTH. (Rom.15, Matt.10, 15) Paul recorded his HEAVENLY WORDS.Originally posted by carlaimpinge:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Charles Meadows:
What was written before Damascus Road was for our learning; not for application to us.
This statement typifies the problems with much of dispensationalist thought. Jesus (God Himself) came to earth and spoke - and we've got it on paper!!!
But many of our brethren choose to say that what Jesus said is "not for us". They say this because it doesn't fit into their pre-determined theological scheme. A strict literal interpretation of the scriptures is more important than the words of Jesus.
I don't know a single "Red Letter Kid" who teaches that Matt.5:22 is "doctrinally applicable" to ANY MEMBER of the body of Christ.
It's NOT FOR US individually as members of his body.
No Gentile member of the body of Christ would be tempted to call anyone RACA, and we certainly don't have to bring gifts, OR LEAVE THEM at the altar, to make amends with ANY OTHER MEMBER of the body of Christ IF we were tempted.
It's NOT FOR US historically.
No member of the body of Christ is in danger of hell fire for calling another member a fool. Unless one subscribes to the heretical nonsense of Joey Faust, who teaches that members of Christ's body GO TO HELL. (An unlearned, unstable wresting of the scriptures.)
It's NOT FOR US dispensationally.
Matt.5-7 is a doctrinal dissertation on the CONSTITUTION of the JEWISH kingdom of heaven.
It's NOT FOR US nationally.
Sure we can get "practical-doctrinal" truth from it (2 Tim.3) but it's not WRITTEN TO US. </font>[/QUOTE]Powerful and heady stuff. Got to be close to the Head to know this kind of New information.
Such a pity that so many left the gospel of Paul, even while he lived. We still work while there is still light, but I believe it grows dimmer by the day. He'll keep our batteries charged until He calls us home. Christian faith, ituttut, Galatians 1:11-12
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
There are at least two followers of hyper-dispensationalist Bullinger on this forum!
Agree, Charles, that this is a problem. But this is HYPER-dispensational teaching of the Ohare/Bullinger crowd. 99.9% of historic dispensationalist (like me) agree that it is nonsense and disavow it.
There are extremists in every group and these fringe candidates are our cross to bear . . </font>[/QUOTE]As expected, more disinformation. You must have the “easter bunny” on your mind. The name is Ohair. Ohair was not of the dispensations of Bullinger. He thought Bullinger probably hyper.
If anyone ever lived on the edge it was Paul, probably brought back to life for standing for Christ in heaven. Need more of us. I believe you would make a good candidate.
It is your “historic dispensationalism” that throws you off the mark, but not from His saving solely by believing on His name. It is hard for me to believe that my God is a one dimensional God, with only one dispensation. We know that He has at the least three, and perhaps that is all that we need. 1- He spoke to us from heaven. 2 – He spoke to us from earth. 3 – He speaks to us from heaven again. I know He didn’t speak to me from heaven at the beginning, as I was not yet formed. I know He did not speak to me while He was on earth, as I was not born. But today I am here, and He speaks to me through the gospel of Paul, my own personal Apostle. He tells me all about the rapture, the Body of Christ, about sleep, about his (dispensational) gospel that Christ gave to Him, which is by the grace of God though faith without works, He saves me a heathen Gentile, who before all had been discarded. This is My God and My Savior, and My Apostle Paul is the one who taught me to build on the foundation of Jesus Christ, in this dispensation.
Each dispensation has its own “history”. When this dispensation is snatched up into the air, its history goes with it. Those in the time of Jacob’s trouble will only have what was from the beginning straight through to prophecy in Revelation. The time we live in will only be a “fairy tale”, because it was here and then it will be gone. But His Word from heaven will live forever. Now that’s really hyper.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism is nonsense!
Hyper-dispensationalism is utter nonsense!
Hyper-dispensationalism is utter nonsense!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Sounds good to me!
DeafPosttrib
New Member
Gentiles are NOW grafting into the tree join with Jews, it is happening, both Gentiles and Jews are merge together, SO, all Israel shall be saved - Romans 11:25-26. In other word, "All Israel shall be saved"- shall be completed at Christ's coming. Like idea as Christ is currently builting the Church of Matt. 16:18. Builting the church is not done, Christ is working on both Jews and Gentiles till when Christ comes, then it will be done.
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Amen!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
By the way, those folks who believe in a heavenly people, the Church, and an earthly people, the Jews, need to read Revelation 21, 22.
When Jesus instituted the new covenant with his disciples the day after the Passover by crucified, he must not have know what he was doing. After his resurrection, he told them to make disciple of every nation teaching them to observe everything that he had commanded them. Again, Jesus got it all wrong! At least according to Intuit, who apparently intuits all kinds of meanings in Scripture that aren't there!
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
People who don't understand
Revelation 20 should read Revelation 21.
To understand Revelation 20 and 21 you need
to understand the dynamaics of the Biblically
described "God's Economy" AKA Dispensations.
DeafPosttrib: "Gentiles are NOW grafting into the tree join with Jews, it is happening, both Gentiles and Jews are merge together, SO, all Israel shall be saved - Romans 11:25-26."
I don't think that means that "all Israel shall
be saved" is due to the current grafting.
The grafting is descriptive of the Church
Age. At the end of the church age, start
of the tribualtion 7-year-day, at the
pretribulation rapture - the gentiled
graft will be taken out of the world.
The tribualtion 7-year-day is God's plan
to save all Israel.
Now there are only about 100,000 Messanic
Jews (Jews who believe Jesus is Messiah)
but over 18,000,000 (18 Million) Jews.
ALL Jews saved requires today 18,000,000
Jews to be saved.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Some dispensationalist posts on this forum are so confusing I can't figure out which are followers of Darby/Scofield or followers of Bullinger. That is, are they classic dispensationalists or are they hyper-dispensationalists.
Ed Edwards
<img src=/Ed.gif>
Probably on the "#16 Rapture" topic it will dawn
on you that i really was taught my eschatology
by the Holy Spirit NOT by those guys
i don't know but whom you seem to read
to the exclusion of the Holy Bible.
What does "priesthood of the believer" mean to
you? To me it means that i can study the
Bible on my own and God will tell me via the
Holy Spirit what i should beleive about the
Bible. Thus I follow no man.
For examples:
1. Tim LaHaye teaches that there must be
a pretribualtion rapture because there wouldn't
be enough time in the sky for the Christian's
award ceremony (AKA: the Judgement Seat of Christ)
2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus
Well, i worked the numbers.
There isn't enough time for a linerar/sequential
awards ceremony in the 7-year-day tribulation
either.
2. The mainstream of dispy pretribs
believes that the Matthew 24:30 and
2 Thessalonians 2:1 "gathering" is speaking
of the gathering of Jews at the end of the
Tribulation. I believe the gathering to
be of the church in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection.
So don't tell me which man i'm following,
don't argue that man so & so said what,
tell me what the Bible says, what the Holy
Scripture means. Thank you.
on you that i really was taught my eschatology
by the Holy Spirit NOT by those guys
i don't know but whom you seem to read
to the exclusion of the Holy Bible.
What does "priesthood of the believer" mean to
you? To me it means that i can study the
Bible on my own and God will tell me via the
Holy Spirit what i should beleive about the
Bible. Thus I follow no man.
For examples:
1. Tim LaHaye teaches that there must be
a pretribualtion rapture because there wouldn't
be enough time in the sky for the Christian's
award ceremony (AKA: the Judgement Seat of Christ)
2. Judgement Seat of Christ
WHO: Believers for works
WHEN: during the Great Tribulation on earth;
Right after the Rapture/Resurrection that starts
the Tribulation
WHERE: Heaven
WHY: to assign rewards (including
the Millinnial Kingdom rest)
to the redeemed for their good works
HOW: The Grace of God through Messiah Jesus
WHAT: found innocent by the Bood of Jesus
Well, i worked the numbers.
There isn't enough time for a linerar/sequential
awards ceremony in the 7-year-day tribulation
either.
2. The mainstream of dispy pretribs
believes that the Matthew 24:30 and
2 Thessalonians 2:1 "gathering" is speaking
of the gathering of Jews at the end of the
Tribulation. I believe the gathering to
be of the church in the pretribulation
rapture/resurrection.
So don't tell me which man i'm following,
don't argue that man so & so said what,
tell me what the Bible says, what the Holy
Scripture means. Thank you.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Dispensationalism in any form is an erroneous doctrine that originated about 1830 by John Darby and was popularized by the Scofield Reference bible.
You say: "tell me what the Bible says, what the Holy
Scripture means." I have quoted time and again one passage of Scripture that if dispensationalists were true to their so-called literal hermeneutic would prove dispensationalism erroneous. That passage of Scripture is John 5:28, 29 in which the Lord Jesus Christ teaches very clearly a General Resurrection and General Judgment of all the dead within a given specific time. But you will not believe it.
Dispensationalists have been completely unable to quote a single passage of Scripture or a collage of Scripture to establish a pretrib removal of the Church. That is a fact! If I am wrong then post the Scripture, in a logical manner, that clearly show I am wrong.
You say: "tell me what the Bible says, what the Holy
Scripture means." I have quoted time and again one passage of Scripture that if dispensationalists were true to their so-called literal hermeneutic would prove dispensationalism erroneous. That passage of Scripture is John 5:28, 29 in which the Lord Jesus Christ teaches very clearly a General Resurrection and General Judgment of all the dead within a given specific time. But you will not believe it.
Dispensationalists have been completely unable to quote a single passage of Scripture or a collage of Scripture to establish a pretrib removal of the Church. That is a fact! If I am wrong then post the Scripture, in a logical manner, that clearly show I am wrong.