Featured The Real Issue

Yes, the scripture is sufficient to enable any man to believe, nothing more is required.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

1 Tim 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

The scriptures themselves say of the word of God that it is quick, powerful, piercing, discerning, and ABLE to make a man wise unto salvation.

The word of God provides man with everything he needs to believe and be saved, nothing more is needed.

 

Right, because if more was needed then everyone who doesn't accept scripture would have a perfect excuse for their rebellion against the scripture.

They could rightly say to God, "I didn't accept and follow your truth because you withheld all that was needed for me to do so."

 

Never once expounds........??

"And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

And have we mentioned the necessity of the new birth.......whereby the Elect are 'zapped' by the Holy Spirit to become a new creation?

 

Are you sure you want to use that as a proof text for your doctrine of "Total Inability" and "Irresistible Grace" given that in the previous passage it tells us that Lydia was a one who worshipped God prior to this encounter? How is it that someone born total depraved, a complete enemy of God, repulsed by God, never seeking or even able to respond to Him, is described by the inspired author of this text as being a "worshipper of God?"

We all affirm the work of regeneration, by which we will receive a new heart. We disagree as to the order of things. Calvinists teach that men are given life in order to believe and John teaches the opposite: "...these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name." (Jn 20:31)

I agree with John.

Again, there is no clear exposition of the concept called 'irresistible grace' or 'effectual calling.' There is only the Gospel call by which all are offered or appealed to "be reconciled to God." There is no reason to suggest or teach that this call is insufficient to enable a response.

 

Here is the REAL REAL ISSUE of which I will be bold to speak! You can all argue Soterology & Eschatology till your are all blue in the face. What are the basic building blocks of Christianity? In short the answer is "Belief" in other words, you have got to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord & Savior (that comes 1st) for without that there is no Christianity.

Then I know that anyone who is in belief (with the HS) is Born Again. They are a "NEW CREATION" so your sins need to be a part of that past life & you are to strive (NO REALLY STRIVE) to be Christlike. None of us Baptist argue these points of Faith & Practice. So your issues of soteriology & eschatology should take a back seat to being a Born Again & Saved Christian. And we need to all look for HIS Presence in our actions in prayer, in a life changed (for the better) & in loving your brethren (ML-J Joy Unspeakable- Pg101)"We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love the brethren. When you can honestly say that you would sooner be with the brethren than with anybody else, that you have found that people whom you do NOT like by nature you can love as Christians because they are, with you, children of God." SO, my question to you is, 'are we projecting ourselves forward in our daily walks by LOVING....... our neighbors as ourselves, our brethren...... and the totally toughest one of all.......our enemies"?!?

 

I guess the commentators of the Geneva Study Bible, a Calvinistic commentary, don't have "two grains of common sense," because they too apply this verse to the written/spoken words of God, not only the Person of Christ.

Now, just to be clear, I don't believe this to mean to exclude Christ, the Word, but just to say that this passage is not exclusive of the person, but also includes HIS WORK and HIS WORDS. Even Jesus said, "The very words I speak to you are spirit and life," so I don't believe you can divide the person from his words...especially in this context.

I don't believe we said that the scriptures save anyone. Only God can save. We are talking about the means of faith through which God chooses to save. Faith comes by hearing the word of God.

 

The Biblicist

Yes he does.....Winman does not let truth get in the way of his novelties:wavey:.....no..never:thumbsup:

 

Then why are you attempting to separate the person from the Word by suggesting that one could come without the other?

I could NOT AGREE MORE with this statement!!! But keep in mind I'm not the one attempting to separate the Person from His Work...you are. I'm the one arguing that EVERYTIME God's word is proclaimed, read, or heard that Jesus, the person, should get all the credit for bringing it because it is HIS WORD...and because of that it comes in power and its living. You are the one attempting to argue that the Word can come apart from the person and not have power some of the time. You need to apply your own belief and live by the statement you wrote above. I couldn't have said it better myself.

 

the Bible by itself saved NO sinner, its when the HOLY SPIRIT enables a sinner to hear and receive the good news that it accomplishes its work among those given it unto salvation!

the message is true, but sinners in and by themselves remaind deaf and blind to Him...

 

When is the Bible ever 'by itself?' It is produced, preserved, and carried by the Holy Spirit of God. Why would you attempt to separate the person from his work?

We don't do that with human authors, why on earth would you do that with a divine author? Imagine someone reading Piper's book "Desiring God" and becoming a Calvinist and then suggesting that Piper's work in explaining these doctrines weren't at least in part responsible for that person's conversion to Calvinism. And suppose another believer read Piper's book who rejects Calvinism. Would you suggest because Piper didn't write that work? Or that he didn't write it clear enough for them to understand those doctrines? OR would you just say that guy is stubborn and rejected the 'truth' of what Piper clearly taught?

The point is that its the reader's responsibility as to what they do with the author's work. You don't separate the author from his work. He gets credit for his teaching regardless of if any particular reader accepts or rejects that teaching.

 

the point is that there is no power in the pages of a Bible, the power is the One whom the book describes, Jesus death upon the Cross for sinners, and ONLY the Spirit has the opower to make that real and true to any sinner!

the bible has no magic in it, but itdescribes the event and the Person to whom has the power to save sinners thru it!

 

Of course He is the powerful one, but so is his truth. His words are powerful and they don't return void but accomplish the purpose for which they are sent. And he sends those words through messengers. Mankind is judged by the very words that he spoke (Jn 12) so I wouldn't discount the power of 'the very words he spoke.' After all, he calls them 'spirit and life.' (Jn 6)

I'm not sure why this has to be an either/or situation? Why not both/and? BOTH Jesus AND his words are are living and active...they are profitable...powerful and effective!