The role of the wife.

[donnA]

How in the world could you know anything about what is happening in superwoman's life, or any other adult on this board? You do not understand because you are still a child. The nuances of married life elude you, trust me. It does not matter how much biblical "knowledge" you think you may have. That knowledge means nothing if you cannot relate it to real life. Anyone can give a standard dictionary definition of the word submission. The real question is not what submission means in theory, but in practice. Something of which you have little or no idea. So leave the conversation to grown folks or at least be respectful when addressing the adults on this board, particularily the women, and in the end you may end up learning something.

Great post, you hit it exactly. No life expereince in marriage or relationships.
We were taught to respect adults when we were children, and we taught our children the same.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

How in the world could you know anything about what is happening in superwoman's life, or any other adult on this board? You do not understand because you are still a child. The nuances of married life elude you, trust me. It does not matter how much biblical "knowledge" you think you may have. That knowledge means nothing if you cannot relate it to real life. Anyone can give a standard dictionary definition of the word submission. The real question is not what submission means in theory, but in practice. Something of which you have little or no idea. So leave the conversation to grown folks or at least be respectful when addressing the adults on this board, particularily the women, and in the end you may end up learning something.

Amen!

I don't care how many medical books he has read, I wouldn't want a 17 year old who had never done a real operation cutting me open either, much less prescribing treatment. :laugh:

 

[mparkerfd20]

... *VERY LONG POST* ....

WOW! What a post!

 

[mparkerfd20]

Great post, you hit it exactly. No life expereince in marriage or relationships.
We were taught to respect adults when we were children, and we taught our children the same.

Amen!

I don't care how many medical books he has read, I wouldn't want a 17 year old who had never done a real operation cutting me open either, much less prescribing treatment. :laugh:

Funny that this "child" has more knowledge and wisdom than the majority of the "old folks" here on this board. He just has a little to learn on TACT maybe. I in no wise agree with everything he says, but the "child" is definitely far more advanced in biblical knowledge than any other 17 yo I've ever met.

(1 Timothy 4:12)Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

 

[annsni]

Funny that this "child" has more knowledge and wisdom than the majority of the "old folks" here on this board. He just has a little to learn on TACT maybe. I in no wise agree with everything he says, but the "child" is definitely far more advanced in biblical knowledge than any other 17 yo I've ever met.

(1 Timothy 4:12)Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Well, we can see from past postings, this "young man" has set no example at all for those of us who have read them. His words and conversation have been harsh, his charity has been sorely lacking, his spirit is judgmental and critical, his faith we haven't seen examples of because of it being overshadowed by his lack of tact and purity - well, I don't know about that. The modesty threads have let me question his struggles.

This "child" might be well educated but it is like a clanging cymbal without love.

 

[Filmproducer]

(1 Timothy 4:12)Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

Lets not call apples oranges. If Shane wants to swim with the big boys then he better get with it. I am in no way despising his youth, but rather rebuking him, if you will, for the very nature and attitude in which he posts. Seventeen year olds have no business meddling in the marital affairs of grown women, or men, for that matter. By the very nature of the meaning of the word example he has no business here, i.e., this thread, especially in the capacity of pseudo-marital advisor/counselor. So again, it has nothing to do with biblical knowledge, but rather the application of it. I am not questioning his knowledge, that is a topic for an entirely different thread. He can have all the knowldege in the world, but it will mean nothing if he cannot relate to people, and he certainly is not going to relate with the "charity" and "spirit" he currently exhibits.

Now, he said it himself that was confused. Why do you wonder? Why is it that other adults, especially the married/divorced ones, would think he is noseying around in someone else's business? It's not all that confusing. This a life experience he has yet to experience. He cannot possibly understand the nuances of the married life, let alone the financial aspects of raising and supporting a family. Yet he is very vocal about just what a wife should or should not do. Again he is preaching on the theory without any regard to the practice. I see no context, just a bunch of rhetoric aimed at disparaging anyone claiming to be Christian that may or may not have made a mistake in life. Sorry, but I don't buy it. Forgive me being cynical, but I would rather discuss the meaning of biblical marriage with someone who has actually been married, or at least has been around long enough to know charity and tact.

 

[gb93433]

Amen!

I don't care how many medical books he has read, I wouldn't want a 17 year old who had never done a real operation cutting me open either, much less prescribing treatment. :laugh:

That is true. So why does that not seem to often extend into churches too? A dose of ignorance changes a lot of people too.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Why say that it is just “pretty accusatory” and “it seems?” Is your Jesus a wishy-washy Jesus or a bold Jesus?

Jesus is bold; he is also omniscient. I am not. Therefore I say things like "it seems" to acknowledge humbly that I do not know everything, and I might be mistaken on things.

Submission to God comes first. A woman cannot love her husband by letting him be a coward and beat his wife and children, while maiming them for life. In fact the law holds her just as responsible for supporting such things.

That was never the issue I was addressing. Please do not confuse things.

Her submission was to her husband as a door mat and not to God first. She was blessing his sin by not taking action. She allowed her husband into her home (possible diseases and all) to act as he wanted and be disobedient to God without ever talking with the elders in her church and calling them to take action.

I don't know any of that, and I am not sure that you do either. That's why I think it is wise to refrain from offering marital advice when you know only one side of the story, and a very limited side at that.

I am not encouraging disobedience to God but rather love. “Exposing immediately” is going to the elders in the church first.

No, that simply not true. You rarely, if ever, expose sin immediately. You first deal with it privately, in accordance with Scripture.

You need some help in your grammar.

Why is that? There was no grammatical mistake in that that I can see. Perhaps you are the one who needs help since you confuse "grammar" with "lexical data." I might have made a mistake using slander rather than libel, but that is a lexical issue, not a grammatical one. So I would refrain from that type of smart aleck statement, particularly when you don't even get it right.

I never libeled any particular churches.

I didn't say you did. Go back and read, and be more careful please.

You sound just like the RCC and its pedophilia cover up over the years.

No I don't. That is shameful for you to say. I am quite sure that I take at least as strong a stand as you do if not more strong. And I can prove it.

I would assume by your comments that you have never been trained to any counseling.

I probably have more training in counseling than you do. But that's not the issue.

You also read what the lady wrote too.

I am not sure what you are referring to. If you read what I wrote, then you know that I said I didn't read it all. You are making some very simple mistakes here because you are not reading closely and thinking closely.

Where was the church when she needed them most? Were their heads stuck in the sand too?

I don't know. I don't know what church she is talking about and I have not talked to anyone there. As I said, there is always another side to the story, and I would suggest getting that side before making dogmatic statements.

Ot is a good thing we do not have passive police protection like you would suggest.

Again, quite shameful. I never said anything about police protection, much less passive police protection.

I grew up in a home that was like hell on earth.

there is nothing like "hell on earth." Read your Bible for what hell is like before you make such statements.

My family went to church every Sunday and heard the typical prayer, submission nonsense.

I can't comment on your situation since I don't know it.

His words also support what I wrote earlier that you disagreed with.

Not sure what you are talking about.

So don't give me the pious garbage you suggest.

I didn't suggest any pious garbage.

The problem is that there are too many wimps as pastors who are afraid to take a strong stance against cowardly men beating their wives and out cheating on them.

I agree. And there are too many who are recommending unbiblical responses.

If you are a pastor then it is your responsibility to lead not just in the easy times and preach a feminine Jesus but to also take a strong stance to support those who cannot stand up for themselves.

I agree.

In your judgment can you show me how you were able to judge me in such a way?

A child who strikes his parent is not showing respect. Period.

Perhaps you forgot to read Proverbs 15:28 before exposing your lack of wisdom and understanding.

I didn't expose any lack of wisdom. I have given a very carefully measured response that acknowledged I do not know everything and am therefore unqualified to speak to it. You should do the same.

Show me one verse in the Bible where you can support what you wrote taking into account what I wrote in the following paragraph.

"Honor your father and mother." There are no qualifications to it. Obedience is not always necessarily required, but honor and respect are.

What kind of a hypocrite are you when you suggest that one show respect for a man that beats his wife and children?

I am not any kind of hypocrite. I am saying what the Bible says.

You advice shows how little ministry you have done among those people.

You have no idea what my ministry has been. You, again, are talking without knowledge.

When was the last time you saw a police officer tolerate a man who beat his wife and children?

Never. When did I ever suggest tolerating a man who beat his wife and children?

When was the last time you stood in front of a cowardly man who beat his wife and kids to bless him?

Never.

When was the last time you confronted the coward who beat his wife and children.

Today. I have been dealing with situations of abuse of different types for some time. For you to suggest I don't know what I am talking about is incorrect.

How hypocritical and arrogant of you to think that I should have just stood there and let his anger explode and attack me and beat me up.

You seriously need to learn to read. I never suggested any such thing.

Then you have the arrogance to suggest that I stand there and let him pound on us.

I said no such thing.

Get out in the real world and do some ministry among those who live in such conditions then you will understand, instead of judge.

Again, you talk out of ignorance, you have no idea what my ministry is.

He also put things in my hand and told me to take them out of the store. I suppose your feminine theology would support that too?

No, I have clearly stated that biblical submission never requires disobedience to God. If you had read without your anger you would have seen that. And I don't know what "feminine theology" I have. That doesn't even make sense.

A few years ago I saw the aftermath of a man who beat his wife so bad that she was hardly recognizable. And you suggest that he be respected and pampered?

No.

What kind of an idiot are you to suggest such a violation of the law and love of his wife?

Idiot? Very nice ... Where did I suggest any such thing?

When was the last time you examined the passage where Jesus turned over the tax gatherers tables?

A couple of nights ago when I read the story with my two year old son before bed.

When was the last time you stood for righteousness in your church and community rather than just preach a feminine Jesus?

I have never preached a feminine Jesus. I stand for righteousness everyday, just as I did today.

When you do then maybe you will put some skin on your faith and boldness in your heart to stand against unrighteousness.

How do I know I don't?

Honestly, GB, this post seems filled with anger and hatred from you. It is filled with lies about what I said and what I believe. It contain false accusations of potentially illegal and certainly unethical behavior on my part. And that is unacceptable and inexcusable.

I think you should request that a moderator remove your post due to your poor response and then remove mine as well. What you have said here is inexcusable. You know better. You claim to be a great disciple maker, but this post reveals a man who seems to have no control over his own spirit. I am embarrassed that this was actually posted publicly here.

You did not read my words very carefully, and you most certainly did not respond to my position. It is unfortunate that you did so. Please do not do it again.

 

[Joe]

Okay if I am supposed to be content being alone and 40,000.00 in debt and going nowhere then I am about as content as you can be about it. I have been single now for 18 months I dealt with it, I didnt enjoy it but I dealt with it made the best of it. I am financially bankrupt. I still keep swimming but there are days I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. It frustrates me when I see familes and couples and I wish I could have what they have. Its not even a matter of being content I did the single thing I hated it I lived with it but I hated it. Am I happy with myself? Absolutely I love who I am I love that I am mom to my boys and a child of the King, a friend, a sister, a daughter but yes part of me does want to share my life with someone, someone whos going to love me and respect me, the problem with my marriage is that there was no respect, no communication my husband did what he wanted no matter what the consequences were. If he wanted a new motorcycle he would go out and get a loan for the new motorcycle and when it was reposessed in a few months because he wouldnt pay the payment he would do it again. Thats just how he was. As for exposing himself to the leaders of the church --he was my husband I asked for help in our marriage and was told to pray for our marriage, God will get hold of him , well alot of good that did. The man i have met yes is a soldier also but he is so funny, kind and caring, we have known each other for years since he at one time was in my husbands unit and actually I was friends with his wife like way back in 2000. He works all the time so I dont get to see him alot but we talk and text alot and thats what gets us through not seeing each other. Why would I want to sit there and weep over a dead branch when God is offering me a new start on the vine of life? Thats where I am coming from.

superwoman I will add you to my prayers. :1_grouphug: Hang in there.

Here are a few bible verses for encouragement.

Concerning the 6 year old child of the man you are dating, maybe think about life from his point of view.
His mother committed adultery against his father
Mommy then married the man who broke up his home.
Now his Daddy is doing exactly what Mommy did
something he explained was very wrong
Something that broke up his family
Daddy is dating a married woman
A maried woman who also had these problems with her spouse.

This child must be quite disallusioned and confused about now.

This boy needs a strong christian, one solid in the faith to mentor him.

So when you feel down, think of this poor child. It could be worse.

Romans 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Jeremiah 17:7 Blessed is the man that trusteth in the LORD, and whose hope the LORD is.

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee

Jer 29:11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end

1Cor 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it

Isaiah 49:4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God

 

[Joe]

Jesus is bold; he is also omniscient. I am not. Therefore I say things like "it seems" to acknowledge humbly that I do not know everything, and I might be mistaken on things.

That was never the issue I was addressing. Please do not confuse things.

I don't know any of that, and I am not sure that you do either. That's why I think it is wise to refrain from offering marital advice when you know only one side of the story, and a very limited side at that.

No, that simply not true. You rarely, if ever, expose sin immediately. You first deal with it privately, in accordance with Scripture.

Why is that? There was no grammatical mistake in that that I can see. Perhaps you are the one who needs help since you confuse "grammar" with "lexical data." I might have made a mistake using slander rather than libel, but that is a lexical issue, not a grammatical one. So I would refrain from that type of smart aleck statement, particularly when you don't even get it right.

I didn't say you did. Go back and read, and be more careful please.

No I don't. That is shameful for you to say. I am quite sure that I take at least as strong a stand as you do if not more strong. And I can prove it.

I probably have more training in counseling than you do. But that's not the issue.

I am not sure what you are referring to. If you read what I wrote, then you know that I said I didn't read it all. You are making some very simple mistakes here because you are not reading closely and thinking closely.

I don't know. I don't know what church she is talking about and I have not talked to anyone there. As I said, there is always another side to the story, and I would suggest getting that side before making dogmatic statements.

Again, quite shameful. I never said anything about police protection, much less passive police protection.

there is nothing like "hell on earth." Read your Bible for what hell is like before you make such statements.

I can't comment on your situation since I don't know it.

Not sure what you are talking about.

I didn't suggest any pious garbage.

I agree. And there are too many who are recommending unbiblical responses.

I agree.

A child who strikes his parent is not showing respect. Period.

I didn't expose any lack of wisdom. I have given a very carefully measured response that acknowledged I do not know everything and am therefore unqualified to speak to it. You should do the same.

"Honor your father and mother." There are no qualifications to it. Obedience is not always necessarily required, but honor and respect are.

I am not any kind of hypocrite. I am saying what the Bible says.

You have no idea what my ministry has been. You, again, are talking without knowledge.

Never. When did I ever suggest tolerating a man who beat his wife and children?

Never.

Today. I have been dealing with situations of abuse of different types for some time. For you to suggest I don't know what I am talking about is incorrect.

You seriously need to learn to read. I never suggested any such thing.

I said no such thing.

Again, you talk out of ignorance, you have no idea what my ministry is.

No, I have clearly stated that biblical submission never requires disobedience to God. If you had read without your anger you would have seen that. And I don't know what "feminine theology" I have. That doesn't even make sense.

No.

Idiot? Very nice ... Where did I suggest any such thing?

A couple of nights ago when I read the story with my two year old son before bed.

I have never preached a feminine Jesus. I stand for righteousness everyday, just as I did today.

How do I know I don't?

Honestly, GB, this post seems filled with anger and hatred from you. It is filled with lies about what I said and what I believe. It contain false accusations of potentially illegal and certainly unethical behavior on my part. And that is unacceptable and inexcusable.

I think you should request that a moderator remove your post due to your poor response and then remove mine as well. What you have said here is inexcusable. You know better. You claim to be a great disciple maker, but this post reveals a man who seems to have no control over his own spirit. I am embarrassed that this was actually posted publicly here.

You did not read my words very carefully, and you most certainly did not respond to my position. It is unfortunate that you did so. Please do not do it again.

I clearly misunderstood you also. Your post spirred me to start a thread. Since this resulted in you clarifying yourself, there appears no foul.

It takes alot of time and effort to butcher someone's post to where it's pretty much unrecognizable then suggest they request "a moderator remove it" I am sure he is aware he can do this, as I was when you suggested this to me. No need to reply, just wanted you to know your clarification wasn't in vain.

 

[gb93433]

No, that simply not true. You rarely, if ever, expose sin immediately. You first deal with it privately, in accordance with Scripture.

Exposing sin can be done in private first but it still exposing sin. I have never met a batterer who said it was not a good thing for his sin to be exposed. It was not until he was exposed that he got help and was healed.

I probably have more training in counseling than you do. But that's not the issue.

I have had those women in my home and I have seen their faces and heard their cries. I have seen their children too. I have also dealt with batterers. I have been there when the batterer showed up at my home trying to find his family as I hid them. It is not a pretty picture but too often churches take such a simplistic picture of those cases. Too many times they ignore the real problem further enabling the batterer to get worse instead of getting help. During those times the psychological model does not work. Tough love and serious accountability does a lot more often.

As I said, there is always another side to the story, and I would suggest getting that side before making dogmatic statements.

The OP made several comments that indicated a misunderstanding of submission and her role as a wife.

A child who strikes his parent is not showing respect. Period.

You failed to understand that I was attacked first. Read Ephesians 2:4. If Ephesians 2:4 were not needed then why is it in the Bible? I was not willing to let my dad beat on my mom. Call it whatever you like and split hairs about it all you want. It took care of the problem forever. He has never repeated that action again. My family thanked me for it afterward. Life since has been much better for all of us. The fact is that I see a different man too. So if you are suggesting that what I did was wrong then what would have suggested I do at the time instead?

"Honor your father and mother." There are no qualifications to it. Obedience is not always necessarily required, but honor and respect are.

There are qualifications too. You have lifted the context out of a greater context. The greater context is submission to God. I am not obligated to submit to any man that demands that I dishonor God by my actions. Many times I was told to steal something from a store and I refused. Call it whatever you like. I will not submit to a man who tells me to dishonor God. I was not a believer at the time but knew it dishonored God and was wrong.

Honestly, GB, this post seems filled with anger and hatred from you.

I will admit that after looking over the post I was harsh and I apologize for that. No doubt it was an overreaction to you on my part. I cannot imagine myself hating anyone though. I do have strong opinions which I believe I can support with scripture and put it into practice. You are entitled to disagree which I know we have many times.

I would have appreciated you asking questions first rather than making what I felt were accusatory remarks.

I am not saying this is true of you but I get very angry when I see churches that do not care enough confront and seem to take the easy road out. Then they paint a picture of love and care yet do not care enough to care for those who desperately need help and are refused. I am trying my best to know people so I can share Christ with them and when I find that the same people are not treated well you bet I get angry.

This past year I have seen two people I know get divorced and not one church pastor or leader said anything. Each person told me I was the only person who said that divorce was wrong and could get them some help. I am dealing with both of them in the aftermath of the storm. It is such a tragedy that their pastors or church leaders would not say or do anything simply because they thought it would not do any good. If churches are that useless then why have them.

I grew up in a home where all of us were abused by my dad and the church told my mother to submit and pray. That did absolutely no good. He just got worse and my mom got more disillusioned. She got to the point where she was such a doormat that she could not even make a simple decision. She is still not quite right mentally today. Her brain seems to be goofed up in some way. I will say one thing though. I know that my dad has great respect for me and trusts me intensely by what he says to me and about me to others. I know he watches how I treat my wife and family.

From your comments and judgments it seems as though you have never had to deal with a father who was a tyrant. Until you do then you will never understand the dilemma. Tell us what you would do if you saw your dad beating your mom. Tell us how you would shown respect for him at the moment.

 

[Beth]

Superwoman

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that you have had such a very terrible experience with your husband. I feel led, though, to caution you to forgive him and not to allow a root of bitterness to develop.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

I do speak from personal experience, and know how difficult it is to forgive someone who has hurt us dreadfully....however, it is imperative that you do forgive and allow God to heal you.

It has been my experience that trials are designed by God to help us grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We are continually being conformed into the image of Christ through our difficulties. One way in which we are conformed is to search the Scriptures to see how to react in a Godly manner to our trials.

That said, I am sure you know what I am getting at.....your husband sinned, and was at fault....this does not mean that God's Word is to blame. God sets out specific tenets which WORK....submitting to one another in love. Your husband sinned, this does not provide an excuse for us to say that we will NEVER submit to another husband.

I believe, though, that you are speaking out of your hurt. You need time to heal...do not rush into another relationship with a man, but do rush into a closer relationship with the Lord. Seek the Lord and His Righteousness and everything else in your life will fall into place.

I will pray for you, my heart goes out to you for such a difficult time you have had.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

 

[Brother Shane]

I just wanted to say that I am very sorry that you have had such a very terrible experience with your husband. I feel led, though, to caution you to forgive him and not to allow a root of bitterness to develop.

Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

I do speak from personal experience, and know how difficult it is to forgive someone who has hurt us dreadfully....however, it is imperative that you do forgive and allow God to heal you.

It has been my experience that trials are designed by God to help us grow in grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We are continually being conformed into the image of Christ through our difficulties. One way in which we are conformed is to search the Scriptures to see how to react in a Godly manner to our trials.

That said, I am sure you know what I am getting at.....your husband sinned, and was at fault....this does not mean that God's Word is to blame. God sets out specific tenets which WORK....submitting to one another in love. Your husband sinned, this does not provide an excuse for us to say that we will NEVER submit to another husband.

I believe, though, that you are speaking out of your hurt. You need time to heal...do not rush into another relationship with a man, but do rush into a closer relationship with the Lord. Seek the Lord and His Righteousness and everything else in your life will fall into place.

I will pray for you, my heart goes out to you for such a difficult time you have had.

Your sister in Christ,
Beth

Beth, that was an extremely nice post you made. Whether or not you agree with me, I would like to add that divorce is NEVER an option. Jesus never taught divorce, and in fact, when approached about it, shot it down in every way (Mark 10:2-12) and left us no reason to believe whatsoever that Jesus would allow divorce under any circumstances.

 

[sag38]

Shane, what part of "except in the case of fornication" do you not understand?

 

[superwoman8977]

Beth, that was an extremely nice post you made. Whether or not you agree with me, I would like to add that divorce is NEVER an option. Jesus never taught divorce, and in fact, when approached about it, shot it down in every way (Mark 10:2-12) and left us no reason to believe whatsoever that Jesus would allow divorce under any circumstances.

You know what Shane you may believe that divorce is never an option but it is the only option in my case. I am like you I dont believe in divorce I believe in sticking it out driving on but the man I married doesnt. Believe me I have fought this for 18 months prayed over my marriage, praying that God would be able to open his eyes and we would reconcile but it isnt happening and I cant sit there for the rest of my life so I told him if he wanted it he had to file it wasnt going to be me. He filed Shane all i am going to do is sign I am not going to argue for anything from the marriage etc I just want it over now. Yeah I met someone and hes great but there is so much more to it than that I am not treated like I am in that little box anymore. I am treated like a human being I am not someone's servant, someones patsy so you are right Shane I dont believe in divorce either but I am also not going to fight the inevitable. Its called I am bowing out with my head held high knowing that I am losing everything but that God still loves me even when it seems that no one else does. Shane, life isnt perfect there are bumps in the road and yes there are things we wish we could re-live and change but everything we go through happens for a reason, but to sit there and tell people that divorce is wrong isnt right you arent in the situation, you dont know. And when you have been through it then you can tell everyone how they should go about it. JMHO

 

[Brother Shane]

Matthew 5:32 - "But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

All Jesus is saying is that if a man divorces his wife for any cause besides all forms of sexual immorality, he will be guilty for her sin. This does not say that the man can divorce his wife if she fornicates and does not say the woman can divorce her husband if he fornicates. Can you not notice that Jesus never gave this man permission to divorce? Read the scripture before... "Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement" (Matthew 5:31)... it was said that you can divorce your wife, but Jesus said that ANY MAN that divorces his wife except for the cause of fornication causes her to commit adultery -- if she was already committing adultery. How could he possibly be responsible for the wife's fornication? Jesus is clarifying that the husband will not be held responsible for his fornicating wife.

As I said before -- if you're going to put this philosophy into action, Matthew 5:28 will give every wife the right to divorce her husband on the grounds of adultery.

Theory A just crashed and burned.

 

[Brother Shane]

I'll say a prayer for you

You know what Shane you may believe that divorce is never an option but it is the only option in my case. I am like you I dont believe in divorce I believe in sticking it out driving on but the man I married doesnt. Believe me I have fought this for 18 months prayed over my marriage, praying that God would be able to open his eyes and we would reconcile but it isnt happening and I cant sit there for the rest of my life so I told him if he wanted it he had to file it wasnt going to be me. He filed Shane all i am going to do is sign I am not going to argue for anything from the marriage etc I just want it over now. Yeah I met someone and hes great but there is so much more to it than that I am not treated like I am in that little box anymore. I am treated like a human being I am not someone's servant, someones patsy so you are right Shane I dont believe in divorce either but I am also not going to fight the inevitable. Its called I am bowing out with my head held high knowing that I am losing everything but that God still loves me even when it seems that no one else does. Shane, life isnt perfect there are bumps in the road and yes there are things we wish we could re-live and change but everything we go through happens for a reason, but to sit there and tell people that divorce is wrong isnt right you arent in the situation, you dont know. And when you have been through it then you can tell everyone how they should go about it. JMHO

That's just it -- it's your opinion. The Bible never speaks of someone having to go through a matter before he/she can condemn it. What about my 85-year-old great-grandmother? Is she wrong for condemning divorce, yet she is still married to her husband of 55 years?

Do not get offended that I quote from the Bible, ma'am. I understand your pain, your suffering, and I even understand WHY you wanted to divorce him (you "made him", remember?), but as Christians, we are to "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding" (Proverbs 3:5). You're already messing up my jumping into another relationship. Just remember, you'll always be married to your husband 'till he dies. ALWAYS! (1 Corinthians 7:34-39)

 

[Cutter]

Brother Shane, I can only pray that you are not tried in your future life experience as some of these that are here on the BB have. They are hurting and suffering because they have been there and tried every way possible to make things work and had an unwilling and uncooperative companion. We can not change the behavior and choices of another human being. Only God can do that. So, do not assume it is possible by others. From one Brother to another, please consider refraining from posting any further on this matter at this time.

 

[LadyEagle]

Just remember, you'll always be married to your husband 'till he dies.

And if we lived in Old Testament times, he would have been stoned to death for adultery and she would be free to marry because she would be a widow. And before you give us the we do not live under the law anymore excuse, Jesus said He came to fulfil the law. God divorced Israel for adultery. Case closed.

 

[Brother Shane]

Sag38, I would also like you to know that "saving for the cause of fornication" was referring to the Jewish custom of betrothal. We know in betrothal, partial vows were said (see source a). They were only "betrothed or espoused" (see source b), but in the Bible, they were officially referred to as husband and wife. Joseph and Mary were "espoused" (Matthew 1:18) -- Joesph is called "husband" (verse 19) and Mary is called "thy wife" (verse 20). Joseph thought that Mary had fornicated, but the LORD showed Joseph his misunderstanding. This is the type of situation that the LORD described during "saving for the cause of fornication". This could only take place during betrothal. Notice that this is only found in Matthew -- who wrote the gospel mainly for the Jews.

sources:
a) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betrothal
b) http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Divorce/unacceptable.htm