The role of the wife.

[gb93433]

Adultery is a sexual relationship by a married or previously married person. The sex of the offending partner is irrelevant.

Fornication has one other meaning besides the broad term of general sexual misconduct -- and that's sex before marriage.

As you read your Bible more carefully you will see that adultery and fornication is far more inclusive than what you sugest. Adultery is unfaithfulness. It can be unfaithfulness to God and have absolutely nothing to do with being married or unmarried. The books of Malachi and James will demonstrate that.

Fornication (porneia) often has nothing to do with an issue of before or after marriage. It can include all kinds of sexual perversions.

 

[John Smith]

Not easy

This matter of divorce and remarriage is not an easy one. Thanks be to God there is manifold grace to cover all manner of sin. There is Gods Ideal and there is Gods grace.

 

[EdSutton]

Do you not believe that Psalm 51 if the prayer of repentance from David?

No, I believe that Psalm 51 is David's confession, as I said.

You (and cetrainly many others) are the ones who read "repentance" (really meaning "repent of/from one(s) sin(s)") into the text.

Nowhere does the Bible ever even use this phrase, as so many have 'eisegeted' it to read, although it uses the words "repent" ('relent' in the NKJV some 30 times for the same Hebrew and Greek word, where God is concerned) and "repentance", (or some variation therof, in a couple of other translations) ~100 times in all the "standard" versions I am, more or less, quickly aware of (but not including 'paraphrases'), such as the AMP, ASV, DARBY, ESV, HSCB, KJV, NIV, and NKJV, to give them alphabetically.

1 Have mercy on me, O God,
because of your unfailing love.
Because of your great compassion,
blot out the stain of my sins.
2 Wash me clean from my guilt.
Purify me from my sin.
3 For I recognize my rebellion;
it haunts me day and night.
4 Against you, and you alone, have I sinned;
I have done what is evil in your sight.
You will be proved right in what you say,
and your judgment against me is just.[a]
5 For I was born a sinner—
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
6 But you desire honesty from the womb,[b]
teaching me wisdom even there. 7 Purify me from my sins,[c] and I will be clean;
wash me, and I will be whiter than snow.
8 Oh, give me back my joy again;
you have broken me—
now let me rejoice. (Ps. 51:1-8 - NKJV)

If David was "repenting of his sins", why does Scripture not say this? Also why would he have to ask the Lord to 'blot out' the stain of that sin??

Again, I say that the (implied) claim that David "repented of his sin" is adding, or at least attempting to add something to Scripture that Scripture does not say.

Incidentally, I will ask yet once again (for now at least the 5th time on the BB, without ever getting a real answer), if "repent" really does mean "repent of sins", just exactly what sins is it you are ascribing to God, considering that He is the one who is said to either 'repent' or 'not repent' some 30 times in Scripture?

FTR, again, the only individual I have ever found in Scripture said to "repent", as an individual, aside from God, is Job. (Job 42:6) The nation of Israel and the city of Ninevah are mentioned regarding this in a collective sense, yes, but not another individual, that I have found.

And I'm just naive enough to believe that the Holy Spirit could have found some way to have this said somewhere, in 1189 chapters and over 31,000 verses, if that was His intention. He didn't have it said, so I'm not willing to say it either.

FTR, one was told to repent in order that the sins might be blotted out(Ac. 3:19), and for (because of) the remission of sins. (Mk. 1:4; Lk. 3:3; Ac. 2:38) And repentance (a change of mind, i.e. the 'flip-side' of believe/faith) is to be directed toward God, and not sin. (Ac. 20:20-21)

I hope I have answered your question, in a fairly brief manner, from Scripture.

Ed

 

[EdSutton]

This matter of divorce and remarriage is not an easy one. Thanks be to God there is manifold grace to cover all manner of sin. There is Gods Ideal and there is Gods grace.

Well said.

And let me be the first to say, "Welcome to the BB." :thumbs:

Ed

 

[gb93433]

okay well heres the thing I went home last night, and did alot of thinking and came to this conclusion.

I have met a wonderful man and I am going to get to know him more.

What would you do if your husband came to you and said that God has gotten ahold of him and he wants to stay married and make it work? You have not finalized your divorce and you are seeing another man. When I counsel people that is the first thing I ask about. You should not be seeing anyone until you have done everything within your power to make the marriage work and your divorce is final. A marriage will never work when one person is seeing someone else.

While you are right in that you cannot control another person. However you can judge the actions of another. If you came to know a man who is a growing Christian and has made many disciples there is a good chance that he will not stray because he is involved in the lives of others. I would not dare do something stupid against my wife because there are so many people who know me and would say something if I did. Recently a man I know went to Texas a few months ago and met someone else I know. They live about 500 miles apart and had never met.

Should you decide to remarry consider waiting on God for someone who is active in ministry and discipling people. It makes a huge difference in being married to someone who makes disciples as Jesus commanded in Matthew 28:19, 20. It is not just about loving someone who happens to be a Christian. It is about loving someone who is actively doing God's work. When I suggest to my wife that we reach out to someone, she knows what to do and why we do it. She knows how to make disciples and the importance of it because she was discipled by a lady when she was in college. We have an open door to people because we want to reach people. We are together in ministry.

 

[donnA]

I was thinking, one thing we should not forget here. Shane is 17, and anyone who has ever raised children to adulthood, who has teenagers, or has worked with teenagers knows he is at the age where he knows it all, and everyone older then him is stupid. The age where respect has flown out the door. He will mature one day, he will learn respect one day, and one day he'll realize that people older then him have lived longer, experienced more, and have more wisdom because of it.
Now though, we're just all stupid in comparison to him.

 

[EdSutton]

FTR, superwoman8977 said nothing about either having, getting, or wanting another husband, at least so far in this thread.

Ed

Actually, she did:

Post 98 in this thread:


In the divorce thread:

=Brother Shane]Ed, I am not going to go back and sort through all her posts, but I'm sure she will gladly inform you that she WILL NOT be submissive (unGodly) to her next husband. If she is not in a relationship, I am sorry - I misread. But I remember her talking about someone who is nice, let's her be her own self, etc., and I think I remember he going through the same thing she did? She even said she was through with the "marriage" thing. You do not need a husband to be unGodly. I think she is very confused. Perhaps you should go back and read while you're reading Matthew 7:1-5 again and come back and add something we both can work with.

For the benefit of both annsni and Brother Shane, as well as any others who may be interested, when I get into a thread, I start at the beginning of the thread, and read every post in it, as I come to it, and comment on them, as of that time.

My comments were accurate, as of that time, which was in response to post #46.

superwoman8977 had not said this, at that time (as I noted in the post), although she did later say some of the things attributed to her in these other posts by both of you.

Ed

 

[superwoman8977]

Okay superwoman, I am not the one to nosey into people's business, but you constantly talk about your poor financial situation (how much you're in debt, how many hours you work a week), and one can not help but wonder... if you "can not make ends meet" -- as I quote you -- what are you doing with Internet service and all of this spare time (working 40 hrs a week and all)?

To answer your question having internet is paid for by my job plus I have it here at work and we are free to be on it when we do not have patients. Spare time is when I get home at night and everything is cleaned up and kids in bed I might get an hour to myself if I dont have a project I am working on at home for work. Yeah I work 40 hrs a week and my paychecks dont cover all the bills. Welcome to the real world Shane I pray you will get into it soon enough and then you will know.

 

[Brother Shane]

As you read your Bible more carefully you will see that adultery and fornication is far more inclusive than what you sugest. Adultery is unfaithfulness. It can be unfaithfulness to God and have absolutely nothing to do with being married or unmarried. The books of Malachi and James will demonstrate that.

Fornication (porneia) often has nothing to do with an issue of before or after marriage. It can include all kinds of sexual perversions.

I am not addressing the other uses of "fornication", simply the scripture that has both words in it -- demonstrating two different meanings.

 

[Brother Shane]

No, I believe that Psalm 51 is David's confession, as I said.

You (and cetrainly many others) are the ones who read "repentance" (really meaning "repent of/from one(s) sin(s)") into the text.

Nowhere does the Bible ever even use this phrase, as so many have 'eisegeted' it to read, although it uses the words "repent" ('relent' in the NKJV some 30 times for the same Hebrew and Greek word, where God is concerned) and "repentance", (or some variation therof, in a couple of other translations) ~100 times in all the "standard" versions I am, more or less, quickly aware of (but not including 'paraphrases'), such as the AMP, ASV, DARBY, ESV, HSCB, KJV, NIV, and NKJV, to give them alphabetically.If David was "repenting of his sins", why does Scripture not say this? Also why would he have to ask the Lord to 'blot out' the stain of that sin??

Again, I say that the (implied) claim that David "repented of his sin" is adding, or at least attempting to add something to Scripture that Scripture does not say.

Incidentally, I will ask yet once again (for now at least the 5th time on the BB, without ever getting a real answer), if "repent" really does mean "repent of sins", just exactly what sins is it you are ascribing to God, considering that He is the one who is said to either 'repent' or 'not repent' some 30 times in Scripture?

FTR, again, the only individual I have ever found in Scripture said to "repent", as an individual, aside from God, is Job. (Job 42:6) The nation of Israel and the city of Ninevah are mentioned regarding this in a collective sense, yes, but not another individual, that I have found.

And I'm just naive enough to believe that the Holy Spirit could have found some way to have this said somewhere, in 1189 chapters and over 31,000 verses, if that was His intention. He didn't have it said, so I'm not willing to say it either.

FTR, one was told to repent in order that the sins might be blotted out(Ac. 3:19), and for (because of) the remission of sins. (Mk. 1:4; Lk. 3:3; Ac. 2:38) And repentance (a change of mind, i.e. the 'flip-side' of believe/faith) is to be directed toward God, and not sin. (Ac. 20:20-21)

I hope I have answered your question, in a fairly brief manner, from Scripture.

Ed

Do you not believe that true repentance is the essential in going to Heaven?

 

[annsni]

This matter of divorce and remarriage is not an easy one. Thanks be to God there is manifold grace to cover all manner of sin. There is Gods Ideal and there is Gods grace.

Amen. I also welcome you to the Baptist Board, John Smith! :wavey:

 

[annsni]

For the benefit of both annsni and Brother Shane, as well as any others who may be interested, when I get into a thread, I start at the beginning of the thread, and read every post in it, as I come to it, and comment on them, as of that time.

My comments were accurate, as of that time, which was in response to post #46.

superwoman8977 had not said this, at that time (as I noted in the post), although she did later say some of the things attributed to her in these other posts by both of you.

Ed

Gotcha! I do the same thing most of the time. It's hard to get into a thread that's already a bunch of pages and not respond as you go along. :thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

To answer your question having internet is paid for by my job plus I have it here at work and we are free to be on it when we do not have patients. Spare time is when I get home at night and everything is cleaned up and kids in bed I might get an hour to myself if I dont have a project I am working on at home for work. Yeah I work 40 hrs a week and my paychecks dont cover all the bills. Welcome to the real world Shane I pray you will get into it soon enough and then you will know.

It is none of his business how your internet is paid for and neither is it mine. Live your life the best you know how, no one else is there providing these services for you. God Bless,

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Do note that what you quoted above was pertaining just to that scripture and NOT the whole Bible.

Maybe scripture does not say it over and over, but it is in effect over and over.

 

[Brother Bob]

This is one of those times that adultery covers the general sexual misconduct. I wrote about that earlier. It would be different if He used with fornication with it, demonstrating TWO DIFFERENT WORDS resulting in TWO DIFFERENT MEANINGS!

For your information fornication in the Greek, has several meanings, as does adultery.

BBob,

 

[gb93433]

I was thinking, one thing we should not forget here. Shane is 17, and anyone who has ever raised children to adulthood, who has teenagers, or has worked with teenagers knows he is at the age where he knows it all, and everyone older then him is stupid. The age where respect has flown out the door. He will mature one day, he will learn respect one day, and one day he'll realize that people older then him have lived longer, experienced more, and have more wisdom because of it.
Now though, we're just all stupid in comparison to him.

How are your comments biblical and clearly demonstrate to the young man how he should conduct himself? I see your words as being in direct contrast to what Gal. 6:1 teaches.

People may think wisdom comes with age. It does not. It comes with knowing God. All of us have seen people become harder with age and become fools in their pride and arrogance. With humility and knowing God comes wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, not just chronological age.

Proverbs 9:10 says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. "

From what I have noticed in his writing I would guess that much of his attitude has been taught to him from the pulpit of the church he attends. What I see is a zeal with a lack of understanding.

Paul told Timothy to let no one look down on his youth. When I was younger I was told that my faith was just a fad by many of my older relatives. Today they have come to know Christ. If I had listened to them I would not have resisited them and be living for Christ today. During that time I got some rather condemining letters by the same older people today who are living for Christ.

Shane needs to be encouraged to spend more time drawing out people by listening and asking questions first not by those who like to make critical condescending remarks to put him down. A wise person will return grace when approached harshly. In the gospels look at how Jesus treated women and children.

1 Peter 2:21-23, "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;"

If anyone does not think well of youth they need to look no further than Hudson Taylor and Billy Graham.

 

[donnA]

People may think wisdom comes with age. It does not. It comes with knowing God. All of us have seen people become harder with age and become fools in their pride and arrogance. With humility and knowing God comes wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, not just chronological age.

Wisdom about life comes from living it, the longer you live it the more you know about it. Shane does not have this expereince. But he likes to pretend he does.
If one of my kids had today treated adults like shane does their daddy would have made sure they did not do it tomorrow, they would have learned better by then. BUt we taught our kids to repsect their elders, something shane has never been taught.

 

[Cutter]

Shane needs to be encouraged to spend more time drawing out people by listening and asking questions first not by those who like to make critical condescending remarks to put him down. A wise person will return grace when approached harshly. In the gospels look at how Jesus treated women and children.

I totally disagree with your take on this. If anyone has been critical and condescending it has been Shane. I remember when I was his age, and as Donna said, thought I knew it all. His life, God willing, will teach him otherwise!

 

[annsni]

How are your comments biblical and clearly demonstrate to the young man how he should conduct himself? I see your words as being in direct contrast to what Gal. 6:1 teaches.

People may think wisdom comes with age. It does not. It comes with knowing God. All of us have seen people become harder with age and become fools in their pride and arrogance. With humility and knowing God comes wisdom. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, not just chronological age.

Proverbs 9:10 says, "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. "

From what I have noticed in his writing I would guess that much of his attitude has been taught to him from the pulpit of the church he attends. What I see is a zeal with a lack of understanding.

Paul told Timothy to let no one look down on his youth. When I was younger I was told that my faith was just a fad by many of my older relatives. Today they have come to know Christ. If I had listened to them I would not have resisited them and be living for Christ today. During that time I got some rather condemining letters by the same older people today who are living for Christ.

Shane needs to be encouraged to spend more time drawing out people by listening and asking questions first not by those who like to make critical condescending remarks to put him down. A wise person will return grace when approached harshly. In the gospels look at how Jesus treated women and children.

1 Peter 2:21-23, "For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;"

If anyone does not think well of youth they need to look no further than Hudson Taylor and Billy Graham.

Knowledge is one thing - wisdom is another. Kindness and grace is yet another and I'd say goes along with wisdom. Brother Shane lacks grace and wisdom since he has spoken harshly towards women (he said that I was not a lady since I wear shorts and said some other pretty rude things that would have gotten him a speaking to by my husband if we met face to face), and has spoken down to his elders. I'm sure Hudson Taylor and Billy Graham spoke with more grace and respect than Brother Shane does.

 

[Brother Shane]

For your information fornication in the Greek, has several meanings, as does adultery.

BBob,

I find it shameful on your part that you take a word that has "different meanings" and take advantage of that fact to try and say that Jesus Christ permitted divorce.

Though "fornication" and "adultery" have different meanings at times, I believe you said they can be substituted for one another -- how can that possibly be in this case when the two words are mentioned in the same scripture? I am not saying that these two words can not be used interchangeably elsewhere, but I know what Jesus Christ said about divorce on numerous accounts, and not ONCE did He give any grounds as to divorce.

I know you think that this scripture gives you "grounds to divorce," but if you put your Strong's dictionary into work, get a Book of Matthew history lesson, and read about the customs of the Jewish, and you'll see where this scripture is almost inapplicable to our day.

One, should this be pertaining to us, since fornication and adultery are used in the same scripture, demonstrating two different meanings, we would see that fornication is meaning "sex before marriage". This would be impossible for a married couple.

Two, we know that Mary and Joseph were betrothed and this was addressed in several books of the Bible. We also remember Joseph wanting to call off the engagement because he thought that Mary fornicated. We also remember Jesus telling the Pharisees that He was not conceived out of fornication (premarital sex).

Three, if we were to say that "fornication" and "adultery" was the same thing and applied that to this scripture, then that would contradict what Jesus Christ preached about on marriage!

Four, even if you did take the scripture in your terms, NO WHERE does it say to divorce! All it says is the man who divorces his wife for all other reasons besides fornication will be guilty of sin, her sin, etc., - it does not say TO DIVORCE because of fornication! It is letting the non-guilty party know that they will not be held accountable for the other's sins.

When you make your marriage vows before God -- no where do you mention fornication. The only way that you are free to remarry is if your husband/wife dies. No man is to put asunder what God has joined together. God even talks how he hates divorce! Jesus even spoke that there were no grounds for divorce.

There is too much evidence in the Bible that supports Jesus would never allow divorce to go against your one scripture that is intended for the Jewish for the customs of betrothal, which makes absolutely perfect sense. Remember, Matthew was written about the generation of Jesus Christ.

When you draw conclusions about the Bible and have only one scripture, it is best to go throughout the Bible to see if you have anything to back your point up with. Those of you that advocate divorce -- have nothing. You have nothing except a scripture for the Jews.

It is amazing to me how you sleep well at night!