The Sabbath was not Changed

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in fnself-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Legalism is a sign of spiritual immaturity.

Never mind, nothing can put me off.

But who is the one sick of legalism here?
What do you read into Colossians 2? COLD, DEAD, LETTER-LAW never intended or given one thought OR WRITTEN by Paul who wrote the passage.

WORSE! The lines above warn those who "have died with Christ" AGAINST those who have not "died with Christ", but are "of the world" and "live ... (according) to the elementary principles of the world", and "are-being-submitted-to-pettifogging-ascetic-prejudices” [‘dogmatidzomai’]. “THESE, are matters which have the appearance of wisdom in SELF-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against FLESHLY indulgence.”

Do you really want to tell me, Gup, that this is what you think of “My Holy Day” “The Sabbath-Rest-Day OF THE LORD GOD”?!
Incredible! And you are BORED thinking this of the Lord’s Day?
THIS is satan’s “if-you-feel-you-do-feast” in CONTRAST to “Christ’s-Feast-of Sabbaths”. Don’t you dare identify them!

 

[Gup20]

Exactly!

But why isolate these words from their whole CONTEXT? You make it so <boring>!

I apologize for my comment about it being boring having offended you. That was not my intention. I'm simply frustrated that we can't move on to something more relevant than whether sabbath is on Sunday or Saturday. It has been discussed beyond any relevance and the sides aren't changing their minds.

There are currently 9 threads dedicated to the topic, and it is part of the other discussions as well... and every thread is a duplicate argument of the others. Both sides keep saying the same things over and over again.

 

[BobRyan]

Col 2:20 If you have died with Christ to the elementary principles of the world, why, as if you were living in the world, do you submit yourself to decrees, such as,
“Do not handle, do not taste, do not touch!”
22 (which all refer to things destined to perish with use)—in accordance with the commandments and teachings of men?
23 These are matters which have, to be sure, the appearance of wisdom in fnself-made religion and self-abasement and severe treatment of the body, but are of no value against fleshly indulgence.

Legalism is a sign of spiritual immaturity.

This is a reference to man made traditions "commandments and teachings of men? "

By contrast in Mark 7 Jesus calls the "Commandments of God" - the "Word of God" vs 13.

1 Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

1John 3:34 "sin is transgression of the LAW".

James 2 so live and act as those who "ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty".

You wanted to get Paul speaking on the Law of GOD - not the "commandments and teachings of men".

So then - Romans 6.

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is a reference to man made traditions "commandments and teachings of men? "

By contrast in Mark 7 Jesus calls the "Commandments of God" - the "Word of God" vs 13.

1 Cor 7:19 Paul says "what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God"

1John 3:34 "sin is transgression of the LAW".

James 2 so live and act as those who "ARE to be judged by the Law of Liberty".

You wanted to get Paul speaking on the Law of GOD - not the "commandments and teachings of men".

So then - Romans 6.

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

keeping or not keeping the Law ha NOTHING to do with me getting saved, nor keeping saved, its ALL to do with How I should live after saved!

 

[DHK]

keeping or not keeping the Law ha NOTHING to do with me getting saved, nor keeping saved, its ALL to do with How I should live after saved!

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You don't keep them all, and it is humanly impossible to continue in all things that are written in the law from birth to death without breaking one of them. Therefore you are cursed.
That is the teaching of this verse.
You are cursed under the law.

 

[BobRyan]

keeping or not keeping the Law ha NOTHING to do with me getting saved, nor keeping saved, its ALL to do with How I should live after saved!

I see so - "The saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 is not a description of the lost - it is a description of the saved saints.

Are you coming around on that one?

1John 2:3-6 John says the one who claims to know Christ and yet lives in rebellion against his Commandments is not telling the truth.

in 1John 5:2-4 he puts it again to the saints - only this time speaking of it as the "Commandments of God".

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You don't keep them all, and it is humanly impossible to continue in all things that are written in the law from birth to death without breaking one of them. Therefore you are cursed.
That is the teaching of this verse.
You are cursed under the law.

In Romans 8 Paul tells us that the lost person cannot keep the Law of God - but the saved person can.

Romans 8
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. ...
Sonship Through the Spirit

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I apologize for my comment about it being boring having offended you. That was not my intention. I'm simply frustrated that we can't move on to something more relevant than whether sabbath is on Sunday or Saturday. It has been discussed beyond any relevance and the sides aren't changing their minds.

There are currently 9 threads dedicated to the topic, and it is part of the other discussions as well... and every thread is a duplicate argument of the others. Both sides keep saying the same things over and over again.

... which shows JUST HOW RELEVANT this matter is and has been for many centuries ---in fact for as long as Christianity has existed and the devil couldn't swallow Truth's victory over paganism ruling the lives of people.

... which shows just how relevant the subject has RECENTLY BECOME ... as you have noticed yourself! And it is WORLDWIDE! Visit any Christian discussion forum and see for yourself the same thing all over.

But this I assure you, it NO LONGER is just the same old BORING 'law-arguments'! THIS web-page proves it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

In Romans 8 Paul tells us that the lost person cannot keep the Law of God - but the saved person can.

Romans 8
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. ...
[/COLOR]

I am very sorry, these Scriptures nor any others <<tell... us that ... the saved person can ... keep the Law of God>>.

Your very statement proves your claim false BECAUSE IT IS FALSE, and a transgression of the Law which you claim can be kept by <the saved person>.

WHEN WILL GRACE BE ENOUGH, O WHEN?!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Romans 6

Dead to Sin, Alive to God

1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

This is the status and condition of <the saved person> "IN CHRIST" --- not in himself for no moment ever!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

From Slaves of Sin to Slaves of God

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!

16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

... all which by necessity presupposes CONFLICT between the old man and the new man created in us ALONGSIDE the old man ---who SINCE this new creation IN HIMSELF now provides the OLD man with equal opportunity to exercise and grow stronger with every day's ongoing WAR WITHIN!

The only trustworthy 'proof' a man is reborn is his "CO-SUFFERING WITH CHRIST".

Where before it pleased him, his sin now hurts <the saved person> as were the pain his sin causes himself inflicted upon Jesus Christ his beloved Saviour.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Galatians is Paul dealing with those Jews who said the Gentile believers had to follow The Law and be circumcised. This could just as easily extend to any part of The Law, including following the sabbath. If you feel the need to keep the sabbath to retain your salvation or justification, then you are fallen from grace, and you must keep the whole law to be saved (which is impossible, and therefore you are lost). By the way, if you have already sinned, it is already too late to keep the law.

Please make this serious correction to your statement ...

'Galatians is Paul dealing with the Gentile believers ... to whom ... those Jews said they had to follow the Law and be circumcised.'

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

keeping or not keeping the Law ha NOTHING to do with me getting saved, nor keeping saved, its ALL to do with How I should live after saved!

... as were <How I should live after saved> not the Law!

THIS Law Jesus Christ the Risen Lord Victor and STRENGTH of "the Law the strength of sin", is both getting and keeping me saved. It's ALL to do with HIM who died but lived again also in me as from the dead!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I see so - "The saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 is not a description of the lost - it is a description of the saved saints.

"The saints keep the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12 is virtually the same as "The saints keep the Commandments of God INDEED THE FAITH OF Jesus"... 'kai', 'and', intensive: 'in fact', '='.

 

[Yeshua1]

... as were <How I should live after saved> not the Law!

THIS Law Jesus Christ the Risen Lord Victor and STRENGTH of "the Law the strength of sin", is both getting and keeping me saved. It's ALL to do with HIM who died but lived again also in me as from the dead!

Apostle paul disagrees with you, as he wrote that its all of Grace of God, received thru faith alone,period!

 

[DHK]

In Romans 8 Paul tells us that the lost person cannot keep the Law of God - but the saved person can.

What has that got to do with Gal.3:10?
Absolutely nothing! Context is everything! What is the context?

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

He is speaking to the believers in Galatia.
Your answer again to Galatians 3:10?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
--Written to the saved, he says to the believers who had been influenced by the Judaizers who had taught that they must keep the law and be circumcised in order to be saved (legalism), that this is the consequence of their teaching:

If this was true then:
You would have to keep the law, all of it, from birth to death without breaking one law. If you would break the law just once in your entire lifetime you would be cursed. No man can keep that. The law condemns.

Later he says:
Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
--Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law; the curse of keeping the sabbath: fir it is written, "Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree."
Keeping the Sabbath was part of that law that was given exclusively to Israel. See Exodus 31. It was the sign of a covenant between Jehovah and Israel, and their generations forever.
There is no command in the Bible for the Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath. If there is you haven't shown me it.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Apostle paul disagrees with you, as he wrote that its all of Grace of God, received thru faith alone,period!

Now if Paul disagreed with this ...

... as were <How I should live after saved> not the Law!

THIS Law Jesus Christ the Risen Lord Victor and STRENGTH of "the Law the strength of sin", is both getting and keeping me saved. It's ALL to do with HIM who died but lived again also in me as from the dead!

... then, maybe, Apostle paul disagreed with Paul the apostle.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

If this was true then:
You would have to keep the law, all of it, from birth to death without breaking one law. If you would break the law just once in your entire lifetime you would be cursed. No man can keep that. The law condemns.

That the Law cannot be kept is no excuse for the Law is not kept.

But God does not worry about the 613 laws DHK has made note of. God has ONE Law, "The Greatest" by which ONLY EVERY MAN is judged a liar, sinner and LOST long before it got to the small stuff like man's successful or unsuccessful keeping the Sabbath Day.

 

[DHK]

That the Law cannot be kept is no excuse for the Law is not kept.

Do you keep the Law, Gerhard, all of it?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There is no command in the Bible for the Gentile believers to keep the Sabbath. If there is you haven't shown me it.

Like my wife says of our blind old Dachshuendchen, She hasn't got her white stick yet.
Does the DHK need someone to hold his hand and lead him through the woods to show him each individual tree?